Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by tjd808185:

You're the one who brought up the Brady analogy not me. I knew it was terrible and that's why I trashed it. Also having a Moss opens up space for Welker to work with. So if you did theoretically have Calvin and Julio who gets doubled? It's not as simple as saying only 1 wr can get the ball. The other wr can take away coverage allowing him to be more dominant. No cap I'd take them both any day.

Buckner is supposed to be Calvin not AA lol. The analogy fits because there's 2 starting wr's but it still wouldn't be wise to draft Julio if you have Calvin. And like I said NY has pointed out teams have built like that with some success but I'd still argue going for a complete team is the smarter play.

What the hell are you talking about I brought up Brady? I only brought him up in passing about how nice the Pats have it because he's awesome and cheap relative to his play because his wife makes a ton of cash. How in the world is that even close to saying what you said?

And as it has been said before, yes a team will absolutely draft Julio Jones if they have Calvin Johnson. What team wouldn't want two stud WRs? You're honestly probably the only person thinking a team shouldn't draft a stud at the same position because they already have a stud there because it will be hard to pay them both down the road. QB is a totally different situation.

And no even if Buckner = Calvin your analogy doesn't fit...because as I said before a team would be crazy to pass up on Julio because they already have Calvin. Now if they have Calvin, Antonio and Moss and Julio is available while they have big holes elsewhere then yeah they won't take him.

But unlike 1 WR really making a play during a pass play, DLmen all make plays each down they're on the field even if they don't get the tackle/sack, etc. and outside of QB our DL was our weakest link last year.

Basically your point is we took Buckner last year, one guy is enough and maybe Armstead turns into a great player as well so let's not take this kid who could be another special player and help us on our defenses biggest weakness and a position that can make things easier for the rest of the defense.

Originally posted by genus49:

What the hell are you talking about I brought up Brady? I only brought him up in passing about how nice the Pats have it because he's awesome and cheap relative to his play because his wife makes a ton of cash. How in the world is that even close to saying what you said?

And as it has been said before, yes a team will absolutely draft Julio Jones if they have Calvin Johnson. What team wouldn't want two stud WRs? You're honestly probably the only person thinking a team shouldn't draft a stud at the same position because they already have a stud there because it will be hard to pay them both down the road. QB is a totally different situation.

And no even if Buckner = Calvin your analogy doesn't fit...because as I said before a team would be crazy to pass up on Julio because they already have Calvin. Now if they have Calvin, Antonio and Moss and Julio is available while they have big holes elsewhere then yeah they won't take him.

But unlike 1 WR really making a play during a pass play, DLmen all make plays each down they're on the field even if they don't get the tackle/sack, etc. and outside of QB our DL was our weakest link last year.

Basically your point is we took Buckner last year, one guy is enough and maybe Armstead turns into a great player as well so let's not take this kid who could be another special player and help us on our defenses biggest weakness and a position that can make things easier for the rest of the defense.

That's not the entirety of my point not even close but it's time to back off on this.

See BPA v BPA of need. Teams pass on great players all of time and it's not passing on Julio or bust although it can be. It can be passing on Julio for say Patrick Pederson because you already have Fitz. So yeah it does happen.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

That's not the entirety of my point not even close but it's time to back off on this.

See BPA v BPA of need. Teams pass on great players all of time and it's not passing on Julio or bust although it can be. It can be passing on Julio for say Patrick Pederson because you already have Fitz. So yeah it does happen.

Who do you consider BPA of need for us? I'm not seeing it. Our biggest need is QB. After that it's defense and lack of pass rush and run stopping. Thomas does both incredibly well and should only get better. How is he not both?

Originally posted by genus49:
Who do you consider BPA of need for us? I'm not seeing it. Our biggest need is QB. After that it's defense and lack of pass rush and run stopping. Thomas does both incredibly well and should only get better. How is he not both?

QB, Leo/ Sam probably actually need both because right now it looks like we got Lynch at Leo and Brooks at sam, WR, (CB, FS) pending what they do with Ward there's going to be a big need there. Nose tackle is a big need too but I think that can be had later. I'd ignore Mike and Will even though there's huge ? marks there. We got holes all over the board at premiere positions. Bad qb, no pass rushers, bad weapons. Bottom 10 o and d 2 years straight ays you have a lot of work to do.

Watched a lot of film on him last night. I am warming up to him, he is a player that is for sure. I just don't know a position for him. A scout compared him to Justin Smith and another to Richard Seymour. That is very strong praise.

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:

Watched a lot of film on him last night. I am warming up to him, he is a player that is for sure. I just don't know a position for him. A scout compared him to Justin Smith and another to Richard Seymour. That is very strong praise.

He's a beast. Raw but technique is already pretty good, intelligent, high motor, he is a championship caliber prospect.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
QB, Leo/ Sam probably actually need both because right now it looks like we got Lynch at Leo and Brooks at sam, WR, (CB, FS) pending what they do with Ward there's going to be a big need there. Nose tackle is a big need too but I think that can be had later. I'd ignore Mike and Will even though there's huge ? marks there. We got holes all over the board at premiere positions. Bad qb, no pass rushers, bad weapons. Bottom 10 o and d 2 years straight ays you have a lot of work to do.

So if you're not comfortable with the QB at that spot, why wouldn't you take the best pass rusher available? And while you can make a case that as a pure pass rusher he may not be the best but I don't know how with Garrett being gone that you can argue that there is another more well rounded defensive player available given our needs at stopping the run and pass rushing.

We have bodies on the DL but outside of Buckner nobody has proven to be a corner stone of this defense for years to come. You see Armstead there and you just can't get over the fact that he was a mid first round pick just two years ago and to you apparently unless it's a perfect fit for Leo then we shouldn't touch another defensive lineman so early.

That's crazy. You analogies are flawed in not only that they're not correct but that the positions are very different. How many terrific players have fallen through the cracks because scouts or coaches felt they weren't a perfect fit? And how many teams have success drafting for need vs BPA?

Thomas would not only be BPA he'd be a major need. Pass rush - huge need. Ability to stop the run - huge need.

Talented, smart, coachable and hard working....he'll be fine wherever he plays. You're overthinking this man.

Originally posted by genus49:
So if you're not comfortable with the QB at that spot, why wouldn't you take the best pass rusher available? And while you can make a case that as a pure pass rusher he may not be the best but I don't know how with Garrett being gone that you can argue that there is another more well rounded defensive player available given our needs at stopping the run and pass rushing.

We have bodies on the DL but outside of Buckner nobody has proven to be a corner stone of this defense for years to come. You see Armstead there and you just can't get over the fact that he was a mid first round pick just two years ago and to you apparently unless it's a perfect fit for Leo then we shouldn't touch another defensive lineman so early.

That's crazy. You analogies are flawed in not only that they're not correct but that the positions are very different. How many terrific players have fallen through the cracks because scouts or coaches felt they weren't a perfect fit? And how many teams have success drafting for need vs BPA?

Thomas would not only be BPA he'd be a major need. Pass rush - huge need. Ability to stop the run - huge need.

Talented, smart, coachable and hard working....he'll be fine wherever he plays. You're overthinking this man.

At some point you have to trust that Ray McDonald will develop into a decent starter. Armstead has already graded out to be a very good pass rusher finishing 1st amongst 3-4 defensive ends his rookie year and as a 1 gap penetrating 3 tech/ nickel dt he should be fine. All in a rotational role but that's ok. A lot of talk about Bennett but who are there other tackles? Yeah you never heard of them. I know we were bad last year but that will happen with a young, injury plagued team. I think we already have our Bennett in Buckner. Time to find Avril and Irvin because Leo and Sam will be the 3 down edge rushers in this new d. I know that won't be in the 1st but we got other needs too. You can't spend the entire draft on the d line like that's the only unit that matters.

As far as how many have fallen thru the cracks you'd be surprised to know that GM's focus on talking about the people they did draft not the people who they didn't draft. I just showed you Arz passing on Julio when you said they'd take him there. As to why that's speculation from either one of us so leave it at that. They could of had PP as BPA, he could of been BPA of need. So if you want me to go thru scrambling around looking for instances when a GM explained why he didn't draft a great player the answer is no.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

At some point you have to trust that Ray McDonald will develop into a decent starter. Armstead has already graded out to be a very good pass rusher finishing 1st amongst 3-4 defensive ends his rookie year and as a 1 gap penetrating 3 tech/ nickel dt he should be fine. All in a rotational role but that's ok. A lot of talk about Bennett but who are there other tackles? Yeah you never heard of them. I know we were bad last year but that will happen with a young, injury plagued team. I think we already have our Bennett in Buckner. Time to find Avril and Irvin because Leo and Sam will be the 3 down edge rushers in this new d. I know that won't be in the 1st but we got other needs too. You can't spend the entire draft on the d line like that's the only unit that matters.

As far as how many have fallen thru the cracks you'd be surprised to know that GM's focus on talking about the people they did draft not the people who they didn't draft. I just showed you Arz passing on Julio when you said they'd take him there. As to why that's speculation from either one of us so leave it at that. They could of had PP as BPA, he could of been BPA of need. So if you want me to go thru scrambling around looking for instances when a GM explained why he didn't draft a great player the answer is no.

You keep throwing out McDonald and AA like their the same? Lol guess what they aren't...McDonald was actually good in college but dropped because of character issues.

it's funny you were all about drafting Allen a month ago and argued with me about it, now people are on board with taken a DL and your arguing about taking one?

No one said we have to get rid of AA, you simply take the best player at two...you have no idea if AA or buck will get hurt (or if AA is even good) plus you can't have too much depth at DL.

Look at the Jets they drafted Williams when they had sacks, Richardson and MO. Guess what it planed out because Richardson turned into a head case and Williams and MO are pro-bowlers.

I thought you were backing off with the whole Solomon debate

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You keep throwing out McDonald and AA like their the same? Lol guess what they aren't...it's funny you were all about drafting Allen a month ago and argued with me about it, now people are on board with taken a DL and your arguing about taking one?

No one said we have to get rid of AA, you simply take the best player at two...you have no idea if AA or buck will get hurt and you can't have too much depth at DL.

Look at the Jets they drafted Williams when they had sacks, Richardson and MO. Guess what it planed out used Richardson turned into a head case and Williams and MO are pro bowlers.

I don't want to say it as a fact because I've flipped 3x on Fournette but I don't ever remember being for Allen and I know I brought up the Suh/ Fairley argument with taking him. I really didn't even look at him as a prospect and just passed because he's a dt. Thomas is a little more complicated as the tweener.

McDonald wasn't anything until year 5. It took him until year 3 as a starter to start emerging. And the rest of their team? It hasn't worked just yet.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
He's a beast. Raw but technique is already pretty good, intelligent, high motor, he is a championship caliber prospect.

Where do you play him in our 4-3 defense?

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:

Where do you play him in our 4-3 defense?

Outside on run downs, inside on passing downs though you can put him pretty much anywhere upfront. A creative DC could find all sorts of uses for him.


If you've ever seen 'The Waterboy', think about the kicker getting ready to do an onside kick and looking around at the return team, looking for the most shook guy on the field. You could simply put Thomas up against whomever was the biggest weak spot on the OL. Identify the "b***h" and have Thomas wear him down all game.

I'm jacked about Thomas. Let's do this.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

I don't want to say it as a fact because I've flipped 3x on Fournette but I don't ever remember being for Allen and I know I brought up the Suh/ Fairley argument with taking him. I really didn't even look at him as a prospect and just passed because he's a dt. Thomas is a little more complicated as the tweener.

McDonald wasn't anything until year 5. It took him until year 3 as a starter to start emerging. And the rest of their team? It hasn't worked just yet.

Hmmm maybe I'm confusing you with a different poster on Allen...yes it took McDonald 5 yrs but he was much more productive then AA was in college...we waiting 5 yrs for AA? Solomon is BPA and we need pro bowl talent a good DC is gonna love this kid and make him a matchup nightmare. Solomon at two bowser at 34 and we'd be heading in the right direction

Originally posted by mayo49:

I'm jacked about Thomas. Let's do this.