Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by jreff22:
It's safe to assume he would be a lot better with 2 good shoulders.

Yet there's no reason to believe that he'd suddenly be dominant against the run.

Originally posted by saniner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
An anonymous NFL scout compared Stanford DL Solomon Thomas to John Randle.

"Excellent quickness and motor," he said. Thomas is highly versatile, though the NFL sees more of a 3-technique than a 5-technique at the moment. Adding some weight would make him a neater fit at multiple positions. "Great kid," another scout said. "Team captain. Top worker. Explosive athlete. Plays hard. Runs and chases. Strong hands."

yeah I'd hate to draft the next John Randle

Another poster compared him to a young Bryant Young. I like that comp as well. Thomas will make the guys around him better. Having him on the line with Buckner would be huge. Buckner would get more one on one opportunities and could have an even better 2nd year.

If they don't bring in another DT in FA, then I'm hoping they look at Tomlinson in the mid rounds. All they would need is a LEO.

Having a rotation of Buck,Thomas, AA, Mitchell would be amazing...Buck wouldn't have to put in over 1,000 snaps and we can keep him and everyone fresh and healthy.

as far as LEO this draft if full of edge rushers like...

Takkarist McKinley
Tim Williams
T.J. Watt
Charles Harris
Jordan Willis
Haason Reddick
Derek Rivers etc..

also we have Tank/Lynch/Eli...Lynch could rock it if he lost some weight, it's his contract yr so it's now or never.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
For about 5 years to come because if they are that good it will be impossible to keep them. The cap isn't made to overload at 1 position. I agree there's no edge rusher available but we could take Jax's strategy (improved from to 24th to 6th last year) and draft a corner then hit Sam/ Leo. They did other things too. The d line was terrible last year but it was young and injury plagued. At some point you got to trust that Armstead can develop into a decent starter. He doesn't have to be all world Buckner already looks to be that.

Seattle kept their whole secondary together when nobody thought they could.

Pass rushers are very important and cost a lot...yet you'd rather hope and pray Armstead turns into a stud player and let Thomas go because he doesn't fit at Leo?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Solomon Thomas is a freak but he's not getting the same attention because of Garrett who is on another level of freak. It's a shame Garrett didn't do the 3 cone or 20 yard shuttle at the combine so we could compare their change of direction numbers but Solomon was right there with Garrett as far as numbers. The fact that he grades out as a better athlete than Khalil Mack should say something.

Yet here we are...he didn't rush from the outside enough which means he can't do it. Why not?

Is he slow? No
Is he weak? No
Is he too stupid? No
Is he too stiff? No
He hasn't done it enough...well there you go.

How silly is that point? If coaches ever just threw their hands up and said "well this guy has never done this before" and didn't teach them new things the sport would be pretty boring at this point.

Generating a pass rush from inside is tougher than rushing on the outside. To rush from the outside you need quickness, athletic ability to dip and get around tackles, good hands to get guys off you. Which of those things does he not have?

You take Thomas because he makes you a better team at an important position. You worry about where he plays later. He will play, he's too talented not to. If we don't draft a better fit at Leo he can play there. If we do then he'll play as Bennett does for Seattle and Armstead will have to prove he belongs on the field consistently with Thomas and Buckner. I hope he develops into a beast and we have 3 guys who are all pro caliber players but the idea of passing on an all around player like Thomas who fits this team so well not only on the field but in the locker room to give Armstead a chance...no thanks. I was willing to give Baalke and his picks a chance but the results are becoming crystal clear and I don't want to be burned again.

Let's get one thing straight. Thomas is not more athletic than Khalil Mack. His 3 cone time and shuttle time, while impressive, do not make him more agile or more flexible than Mack. They are drills run one time and hand timed with a high degree of error and variability (you could have a bad start, you could have a bad attempt where your transition from cone to cone isn't great). This doesn't supersede all the tape on these guys and their performance in position drills.

On the other hand, Khalil Mack is clearly more explosive and faster and has the jumps, the 40 time, and the 10 yard split to support that. He also has slightly longer arms at 33 1/4". If I'm picking a player for the LEO position, I'm choosing Mack 100 times out of 100 before Solomon Thomas.

Thomas is a great player and may be the best available player at 2, but he's not the kind of talent who is a lock to go in the top 3 in any draft. He's someone who could fall to the 6-10 range in this year's draft because his size is a concern on the interior and his length and lack of experience is a concern on the edge (particularly if teams are unsure of his ability to bend). In this particular draft, I don't think there's a huge talent disparity between Thomas and guys who could be available at 10.

Even if Garrett had a poor time in the shuttle and 3 cone (and I'm not convinced he would), he would still blow Thomas out of the water as a prospect because of his vastly superior length and his proven ability to bend off the edge. If we're considering picking Thomas at 2 to play him at LEO, I hope we're attempting to trade up with the Browns for Garrett. Maybe they like Trubisky or Watson and would be fine only getting a 2nd round pick back in addition to the #2 pick. Garrett would be worth it in my opinion.

They are different players and would play differently on a Dline but for comparisons sake.

S.Thomas
6-3 273, 33 inch arms 9 3/8 inch hands, 4.69 40, 30 reps 225, 35 inch vertical, 126 inch broad jump, 6.95 3 cone, 4.28 20 yard shuttle

K.Mack
6-3 251, 33 1/2 inch arms 10 1/4 inch hands, 4.65 40, 23 reps 225, 40 inch vertical, 128 inch broad jump, 7.08 3 cone, 4.18 20 yard shuttle

What's amazing is how close Thomas is to Mack athletically but is 20+ pounds Heavier.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
An anonymous NFL scout compared Stanford DL Solomon Thomas to John Randle.

"Excellent quickness and motor," he said. Thomas is highly versatile, though the NFL sees more of a 3-technique than a 5-technique at the moment. Adding some weight would make him a neater fit at multiple positions. "Great kid," another scout said. "Team captain. Top worker. Explosive athlete. Plays hard. Runs and chases. Strong hands."

yeah I'd hate to draft the next John Randle

That is one of the closest comparisons that I can think of. Obviously not saying that Thomas is going to be HOF level player but in terms of their motor, quickness and hand use that is who he reminds me of.

Right! so people want to pass on someone who could be the next John Randle because of AA? Nah you don't do that...this FO isn't attached to him and he hasn't earned anything yet.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

An anonymous NFL scout compared Stanford DL Solomon Thomas to John Randle.

"Excellent quickness and motor," he said. Thomas is highly versatile, though the NFL sees more of a 3-technique than a 5-technique at the moment. Adding some weight would make him a neater fit at multiple positions. "Great kid," another scout said. "Team captain. Top worker. Explosive athlete. Plays hard. Runs and chases. Strong hands."

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/134281/solomon-thomas

yeah I'd hate to draft the next John Randle

No, I want to pass on him because we already have Buckner. Who did John Randle have alongside of him?

I know our run game was bad last year but young and injured. It'll get better w_o the need of the #2 pick which could be used to dramatically improve another position.

Wow, just watched his NC tape! All i can say is "WOW!" Eye popping plays. Brutal hand strength and overall power. Quick off the ball. Shoots gaps with ease.

1/2 way through the tape vs. UCLA. Not as good a tape. Still impressive in most all areas though.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
An anonymous NFL scout compared Stanford DL Solomon Thomas to John Randle.

"Excellent quickness and motor," he said. Thomas is highly versatile, though the NFL sees more of a 3-technique than a 5-technique at the moment. Adding some weight would make him a neater fit at multiple positions. "Great kid," another scout said. "Team captain. Top worker. Explosive athlete. Plays hard. Runs and chases. Strong hands."

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/134281/solomon-thomas

yeah I'd hate to draft the next John Randle

No, I want to pass on him because we already have Buckner. Who did John Randle have alongside of him?

I know our run game was bad last year but young and injured. It'll get better w_o the need of the #2 pick which could be used to dramatically improve another position.

4-3 defense is about having a strong group of Dlinemen. Right now our group is pretty weak. We in all honesty only have 2 starters and a bunch of role players right now and need to shore up the position.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

An anonymous NFL scout compared Stanford DL Solomon Thomas to John Randle.

"Excellent quickness and motor," he said. Thomas is highly versatile, though the NFL sees more of a 3-technique than a 5-technique at the moment. Adding some weight would make him a neater fit at multiple positions. "Great kid," another scout said. "Team captain. Top worker. Explosive athlete. Plays hard. Runs and chases. Strong hands."

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/134281/solomon-thomas

yeah I'd hate to draft the next John Randle

No, I want to pass on him because we already have Buckner. Who did John Randle have alongside of him?

I know our run game was bad last year but young and injured. It'll get better w_o the need of the #2 pick which could be used to dramatically improve another position.

Which position should we go with that will have the biggest improvement then?

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
An anonymous NFL scout compared Stanford DL Solomon Thomas to John Randle.

"Excellent quickness and motor," he said. Thomas is highly versatile, though the NFL sees more of a 3-technique than a 5-technique at the moment. Adding some weight would make him a neater fit at multiple positions. "Great kid," another scout said. "Team captain. Top worker. Explosive athlete. Plays hard. Runs and chases. Strong hands."

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/134281/solomon-thomas

yeah I'd hate to draft the next John Randle

No, I want to pass on him because we already have Buckner. Who did John Randle have alongside of him?

I know our run game was bad last year but young and injured. It'll get better w_o the need of the #2 pick which could be used to dramatically improve another position.

4-3 defense is about having a strong group of Dlinemen. Right now our group is pretty weak. We in all honesty only have 2 starters and a bunch of role players right now and need to shore up the position.

The season the Giants beat us in the NFCCG, their d-line was like 6-deep and they were an unmovable wall. That's the 4-3 type model we should be striving for.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
An anonymous NFL scout compared Stanford DL Solomon Thomas to John Randle.

"Excellent quickness and motor," he said. Thomas is highly versatile, though the NFL sees more of a 3-technique than a 5-technique at the moment. Adding some weight would make him a neater fit at multiple positions. "Great kid," another scout said. "Team captain. Top worker. Explosive athlete. Plays hard. Runs and chases. Strong hands."

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/134281/solomon-thomas

yeah I'd hate to draft the next John Randle

No, I want to pass on him because we already have Buckner. Who did John Randle have alongside of him?

I know our run game was bad last year but young and injured. It'll get better w_o the need of the #2 pick which could be used to dramatically improve another position.

BS the only guy that's worth a damn on that DL is Buck and you need D-linemen to run a 4-3 (go look at NY and Carolina)...I don't want Buck playing 1,000+ snaps. AA hurt or not has done nothing especially vs stopping the run...and that includes college. This FO isn't tied to him and he's not a ideal fit for a 4-3 and you know it.

Bringing in Thomas improves the run game, gives us another pass rusher, and both those things improve the secondary... it doesn't force the safety to play in the box all day and let's our LBs have more freedom. OH and let's whomever is our LEO get a better chance at hitting the QB.

I'd love to trade down, but if we don't we should go with the best player and that's Thomas. I'll gladly take two Randle's on this team....and you bet your ass any team would say the same.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
The season the Giants beat us in the NFCCG, their d-line was like 6-deep and they were an unmovable wall. That's the 4-3 type model we should be striving for.

exactly that yr they had...

Chris Canty
Linval Joseph
Jason Pierre-Paul
Justin Tuck
Osi Umenyiora

Originally posted by jcs:

4-3 defense is about having a strong group of Dlinemen. Right now our group is pretty weak. We in all honesty only have 2 starters and a bunch of role players right now and need to shore up the position.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

The season the Giants beat us in the NFCCG, their d-line was like 6-deep and they were an unmovable wall. That's the 4-3 type model we should be striving for.

And how many of those were 1st rounders? Pierre Paul was but OSI wasn't, Justin Tuck wasn't.

Now do they win the SB without Eli because they took a de over him? Maybe they don't have the cap room for Plaxico now.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

BS the only guy that's worth a damn on that DL is Buck and you need D-linemen to run a 4-3 (go look at NY and Carolina)...I don't want Buck playing 1,000+ snaps. AA hurt or not has done nothing especially vs stopping the run...and that includes college. This FO isn't tied to him and he's not a ideal fit for a 4-3 and you know it.

Bringing in Thomas improves the run game, gives us another pass rusher, and both those things improve the secondary... it doesn't force the safety to play in the box all day and let's our LBs have more freedom. OH and let's whomever is our LEO get a better chance at hitting the QB.

I'd love to trade down, but if we don't we should go with the best player and that's Thomas. I'll gladly take two Randle's on this team....and you bet your ass any team would say the same.

Armstead should be fine as a rotational pass rusher and Blair can fill in the rest. Like I've said all along we don't need John Randle there. Tyson Aloulou, Tony McDonald will do. I'd focus on the Leo and dramatically prove a more pressing position of need.

We'll see though and I'm ready to hone in on the tourney for a liitle bit anyways.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

And how many of those were 1st rounders? Pierre Paul was but OSI wasn't, Justin Tuck wasn't.

Now do they win the SB without Eli because they took a de over him? Maybe they don't have the cap room for Plaxico now.

Linval Joseph Was a high 2nd rd pick...you bring up Leo pass rusher but Avril wasn't a 1st rd pick and Irvin was a bottom 1st.

NY just spent top end money on JPP, harson, and Vernon and that D was pretty freaking good this yr

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Armstead should be fine as a rotational pass rusher and Blair can fill in the rest. Like I've said all along we don't need John Randle there. Tyson Aloulou, Tony McDonald will do. I'd focus on the Leo and dramatically prove a more pressing position of need.

We'll see though and I'm ready to hone in on the tourney for a liitle bit anyways.

Not one single team would say nah we don't need Randle or the idea of having two on the team. Last I saw Tyson Alualu was a top 10 pick in the draft...you still don't get the debate there is no LEO worth drafting at two...no one is arguing that we don't need one but Myles isn't falling. This discussion is based around having the 2nd pick and NOT trading down.

Bah Cuse didn't make the tourney so who cares