Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by NYniner85:
wait what stud? we have Buck and that's it man (everyone else to this point is depth)...I'm one of the more positive posters about AA but honestly we don't know what we have or if he will even be a fit for this system.

It's far from a unnecessary upgrade, you need a strong DL and Thomas gives us that. I'm taking the best defensive player behind Myles if we stay put. Allen IMO is more of a 3-4 DE that was my biggest issue with him and he's got shoulder problems on top of it. Worst run D in the history of the NFL so getting the #1 rated run stopper and top 6 pass rushing DL is a unnecessary upgrade..oh okay.

We don't have crazy talent at any position. You want to draft a RB I want to draft a stud DL guy who can be a mismatch all over that line. That's really what it comes down to. Too each their own...i'm leaving it at that.

Yes, Buckner the stud. You don't have JJ Watt and JJ Watt on interior line. You just can't spend your limited resources like that. We have our Smith and all we need is a Ray McDonald at the other spot and I do think Armstead can get to that level. If Thomas was a pure edge rusher I'd be fine with him but we're not going to have a strong even with Thomas and Buckner without a leo or Sam someone who can edge rush. I don't actually want Fournette I was just considering him. I'm still at trade down while weighing the options.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Yes, Buckner the stud. You don't have JJ Watt and JJ Watt on interior line. You just can't spend your limited resources like that. We have our Smith and all we need is a Ray McDonald at the other spot and I do think Armstead can get to that level. If Thomas was a pure edge rusher I'd be fine with him but we're not going to have a strong even with Thomas and Buckner without a leo or Sam someone who can edge rush. I don't actually want Fournette I was just considering him. I'm still at trade down while weighing the options.

You can acquire the edge rusher in the 2nd round, especially in this draft. You walk out with Solomon Thomas and Charles Harris and its really hard to argue that you didn't just improve the front seven of your defense significantly, that will lead to improvement across the entire defense. After Garrett there is no edge rusher worth taking in the Top 10. Thomas is absolutely worth the pick at #2. You put him next to Buckner and you've got two disruptive, tough, hard-nosed players on the DL for years to come.

I just can't see them drafting him over Allen (maybe because of his shoulders?) it's tough to same position 3 years in a row at #1. Obviously Garret is the outlier and Allen because he would still fill a need in our scheme.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Drafting this kid and making him switch positions to play LEO would be extremely disastrous.

It'd be like moving Carradine around. Baalke will probably be laughing at us in a few years

Once again...what a ridiculous comparison.

Carradine was coming off a torn ACL and we asked him to bulk up to play 3-4 DE which traditionally is played by less athletic/slower guys. In essence they took a guy who made his living getting outside rush and using his athletic ability to beat the Tackle and asked him to come in closer where it's harder to get around the edge and generate pressure. It's literally the opposite of what would be done with Thomas.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I just can't see them drafting him over Allen (maybe because of his shoulders?) it's tough to same position 3 years in a row at #1. Obviously Garret is the outlier and Allen because he would still fill a need in our scheme.

To me I see Thomas as the guy with the better upside. Younger, no injury issues, wasn't surrounded by the same ridiculous level of talent as Allen was, much better athletically. Mostly I don't think the 49ers are in any issue to gamble on someone with injury issues giving all they have gone through the past few years.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You can acquire the edge rusher in the 2nd round, especially in this draft. You walk out with Solomon Thomas and Charles Harris and its really hard to argue that you didn't just improve the front seven of your defense significantly, that will lead to improvement across the entire defense. After Garrett there is no edge rusher worth taking in the Top 10. Thomas is absolutely worth the pick at #2. You put him next to Buckner and you've got two disruptive, tough, hard-nosed players on the DL for years to come.

For about 5 years to come because if they are that good it will be impossible to keep them. The cap isn't made to overload at 1 position. I agree there's no edge rusher available but we could take Jax's strategy (improved from to 24th to 6th last year) and draft a corner then hit Sam/ Leo. They did other things too. The d line was terrible last year but it was young and injury plagued. At some point you got to trust that Armstead can develop into a decent starter. He doesn't have to be all world Buckner already looks to be that.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Yes, Buckner the stud. You don't have JJ Watt and JJ Watt on interior line. You just can't spend your limited resources like that. We have our Smith and all we need is a Ray McDonald at the other spot and I do think Armstead can get to that level. If Thomas was a pure edge rusher I'd be fine with him but we're not going to have a strong even with Thomas and Buckner without a leo or Sam someone who can edge rush. I don't actually want Fournette I was just considering him. I'm still at trade down while weighing the options.

Like less then a month ago you were arguing with me about taking Allen and how important DL is, taking the best player blah blah..now I'm on board with taking a top DL and your arguing with me about it...I think you just like to debate honestly.

Last I saw Texas drafted clowney when they had Watt. Pathners have short, lotulelei, draft butler in the first and also have Jonhson. The Giants brought in Harrison even though they had Hankins and brought in Veron when they had JPP. You can't have enough DL talent. And when both buck and Thomas can play all over that line it's a plus.

I also stated a trade down is what I'd want most but if that can't happen I'd be more than fine with get a talent like Thomas.

No one said we can still get a Leo pass rusher in this draft, we have more than one pick.

Originally posted by genus49:
Once again...what a ridiculous comparison.

Carradine was coming off a torn ACL and we asked him to bulk up to play 3-4 DE which traditionally is played by less athletic/slower guys. In essence they took a guy who made his living getting outside rush and using his athletic ability to beat the Tackle and asked him to come in closer where it's harder to get around the edge and generate pressure. It's literally the opposite of what would be done with Thomas.

Of course its not exactly the same thing. I didn't say that at all.

People are just making assumptions that this kid can play EDGE even though the film suggests otherwise and he's more of an interior player. Making assumptions about position changes because you projected the player to be something else that he wasn't in college is exactly what Baalke did.

But I do agree that if the coaching staff sees him as a better interior 3-tech player than Allen and they also think the shoulder arthritis is a big red flag, then by all means, draft Soloman Thomas. Because I think AA should be the backup strong side DL on the bench with Buckner starting at 5-tech.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

For about 5 years to come because if they are that good it will be impossible to keep them. The cap isn't made to overload at 1 position. I agree there's no edge rusher available but we could take Jax's strategy (improved from to 24th to 6th last year) and draft a corner then hit Sam/ Leo. They did other things too. The d line was terrible last year but it was young and injury plagued. At some point you got to trust that Armstead can develop into a decent starter. He doesn't have to be all world Buckner already looks to be that.

Why can't they keep both? The cap keeps going up and look at NY they pay for their DL and are able to keep Harson, JPP, Vernon

Also you worry about that in five yrs they both aren't gonna be FAs at the same time. Maybe give buck an extension before he's due...that's not even a thought right now.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
For about 5 years to come because if they are that good it will be impossible to keep them. The cap isn't made to overload at 1 position. I agree there's no edge rusher available but we could take Jax's strategy (improved from to 24th to 6th last year) and draft a corner then hit Sam/ Leo. They did other things too. The d line was terrible last year but it was young and injury plagued. At some point you got to trust that Armstead can develop into a decent starter. He doesn't have to be all world Buckner already looks to be that.

Seattle kept their whole secondary together when nobody thought they could.

Pass rushers are very important and cost a lot...yet you'd rather hope and pray Armstead turns into a stud player and let Thomas go because he doesn't fit at Leo?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Solomon Thomas is a freak but he's not getting the same attention because of Garrett who is on another level of freak. It's a shame Garrett didn't do the 3 cone or 20 yard shuttle at the combine so we could compare their change of direction numbers but Solomon was right there with Garrett as far as numbers. The fact that he grades out as a better athlete than Khalil Mack should say something.

Yet here we are...he didn't rush from the outside enough which means he can't do it. Why not?

Is he slow? No
Is he weak? No
Is he too stupid? No
Is he too stiff? No
He hasn't done it enough...well there you go.

How silly is that point? If coaches ever just threw their hands up and said "well this guy has never done this before" and didn't teach them new things the sport would be pretty boring at this point.

Generating a pass rush from inside is tougher than rushing on the outside. To rush from the outside you need quickness, athletic ability to dip and get around tackles, good hands to get guys off you. Which of those things does he not have?

You take Thomas because he makes you a better team at an important position. You worry about where he plays later. He will play, he's too talented not to. If we don't draft a better fit at Leo he can play there. If we do then he'll play as Bennett does for Seattle and Armstead will have to prove he belongs on the field consistently with Thomas and Buckner. I hope he develops into a beast and we have 3 guys who are all pro caliber players but the idea of passing on an all around player like Thomas who fits this team so well not only on the field but in the locker room to give Armstead a chance...no thanks. I was willing to give Baalke and his picks a chance but the results are becoming crystal clear and I don't want to be burned again.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Of course its not exactly the same thing. I didn't say that at all.

People are just making assumptions that this kid can play EDGE even though the film suggests otherwise and he's more of an interior player. Making assumptions about position changes because you projected the player to be something else that he wasn't in college is exactly what Baalke did.

But I do agree that if the coaching staff sees him as a better interior 3-tech player than Allen and they also think the shoulder arthritis is a big red flag, then by all means, draft Soloman Thomas. Because I think AA should be the backup strong side DL on the bench with Buckner starting at 5-tech.

The film only suggests otherwise because Stanford coaches felt he gave them a better competitive advantage on the interior. The fact that they played him outside at times showed they trust him to rush from there as well though. His athletic ability says he isn't a one trick pony.

I've yet to hear a real reason why he can't rush from outside?

Film shouldn't be so black and white. No coach watches film from college and thinks I'm going to have to use this guy the exact same way. They look at film to see what they do well and then try to predict what this guy can do with their coaching/development and how he can best help the team win games. I'm curious how many people would think he's not able to rush from the outside if he was 6'5 and had 35 arms but had the same exact college tape?

Originally posted by tjd808185:
For about 5 years to come because if they are that good it will be impossible to keep them.

Worry about that in 5 years. In the meantime I'm not going to complain about the team having two potentially dominant front seven players in Buckner and Thomas.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

For about 5 years to come because if they are that good it will be impossible to keep them.

Worry about that in 5 years. In the meantime I'm not going to complain about the team having two potentially dominant front seven players in Buckner and Thomas.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
For about 5 years to come because if they are that good it will be impossible to keep them.

Worry about that in 5 years. In the meantime I'm not going to complain about the team having two potentially dominant front seven players in Buckner and Thomas.

If they're both dominant front 7 players, then you pay them both. This is hardly a major problem, and laughable considering we have so few good players period.

Originally posted by genus49:
The film only suggests otherwise because Stanford coaches felt he gave them a better competitive advantage on the interior. The fact that they played him outside at times showed they trust him to rush from there as well though. His athletic ability says he isn't a one trick pony.

I've yet to hear a real reason why he can't rush from outside?

Film shouldn't be so black and white. No coach watches film from college and thinks I'm going to have to use this guy the exact same way. They look at film to see what they do well and then try to predict what this guy can do with their coaching/development and how he can best help the team win games. I'm curious how many people would think he's not able to rush from the outside if he was 6'5 and had 35 arms but had the same exact college tape?

Look at all of the most successful EDGE players in the NFL. Which among them are 270+ pounds?

He also doesn't have any reps at playing at that position, unlike Myles who is a freak athlete.

Could he be successful at LEO? Sure he could. Maybe he is a freak like Myles. But what is the probability of that happening considering historical data and what we have seen? And do you really want to risk a #2 overall pick playing him out of position?

And I want to reiterate that I'm perfectly fine playing him on the interior at the 3-tech or 5-tech.