Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

If they're both dominant front 7 players, then you pay them both. This is hardly a major problem, and laughable considering we have so few good players period.

"We have too many good players!"-Said no team ever.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NinerBuff:

If they're both dominant front 7 players, then you pay them both. This is hardly a major problem, and laughable considering we have so few good players period.

"We have too many good players!"-Said no team ever.

Well we did let Gore walk...

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

And I want to reiterate that I'm perfectly fine playing him on the interior at the 3-tech or 5-tech.

Which is where he would play at the majority of the time. Inside. But with his athleticism and skills a team would have the option to move him to the outside, move him all around the DL to take advantage of individual matchups.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

And I want to reiterate that I'm perfectly fine playing him on the interior at the 3-tech or 5-tech.

Which is where he would play at the majority of the time. Inside. But with his athleticism and skills a team would have the option to move him to the outside, move him all around the DL to take advantage of individual matchups.

If we actually have somebody competant at Leo why would we replace that person with Thomas?

Originally posted by jreff22:

Well we did let Gore walk...

They let an aging Gore walk. Hyde certainly has not played poorly and was measurably better this past season. Their major error was in not finding a dependable #2 RB to split carries with him.

Originally posted by jreff22:

If we actually have somebody competant at Leo why would we replace that person with Thomas?

Are you under the impression that each guy will play 100% of the snaps every game?


Also youre going to make adjustments based on the opponent. You'll have games where putting Thomas on the outside creates a major issue for the opposing OL and now you forve them to adjust what they are doing, you make them react to you and adjust their gameplan because of you.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Well we did let Gore walk...

They let an aging Gore walk. Hyde certainly has not played poorly and was measurably better this past season. Their major error was in not finding a dependable #2 RB to split carries with him.

An aging Gore that put up more yards. I wouldn't say Hyde has played well either.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jreff22:

If we actually have somebody competant at Leo why would we replace that person with Thomas?

Are you under the impression that each guy will play 100% of the snaps every game?


Also youre going to make adjustments based on the opponent. You'll have games where putting Thomas on the outside creates a major issue for the opposing OL and now you forve them to adjust what they are doing, you make them react to you and adjust their gameplan because of you.

I don't think Buck and/or Thomas would be taken out often. Assuming the D isn't on the field for 100 snaps a game, I think they will be in the vast majority.

Both are 3 down players.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Well we did let Gore walk...

Last I saw he played for SF for 10 yrs lol.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

For about 5 years to come because if they are that good it will be impossible to keep them. The cap isn't made to overload at 1 position. I agree there's no edge rusher available but we could take Jax's strategy (improved from to 24th to 6th last year) and draft a corner then hit Sam/ Leo. They did other things too. The d line was terrible last year but it was young and injury plagued. At some point you got to trust that Armstead can develop into a decent starter. He doesn't have to be all world Buckner already looks to be that.

Seattle kept their whole secondary together when nobody thought they could.

Pass rushers are very important and cost a lot...yet you'd rather hope and pray Armstead turns into a stud player and let Thomas go because he doesn't fit at Leo?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Solomon Thomas is a freak but he's not getting the same attention because of Garrett who is on another level of freak. It's a shame Garrett didn't do the 3 cone or 20 yard shuttle at the combine so we could compare their change of direction numbers but Solomon was right there with Garrett as far as numbers. The fact that he grades out as a better athlete than Khalil Mack should say something.

Yet here we are...he didn't rush from the outside enough which means he can't do it. Why not?

Is he slow? No
Is he weak? No
Is he too stupid? No
Is he too stiff? No
He hasn't done it enough...well there you go.

How silly is that point? If coaches ever just threw their hands up and said "well this guy has never done this before" and didn't teach them new things the sport would be pretty boring at this point.

Generating a pass rush from inside is tougher than rushing on the outside. To rush from the outside you need quickness, athletic ability to dip and get around tackles, good hands to get guys off you. Which of those things does he not have?

You take Thomas because he makes you a better team at an important position. You worry about where he plays later. He will play, he's too talented not to. If we don't draft a better fit at Leo he can play there. If we do then he'll play as Bennett does for Seattle and Armstead will have to prove he belongs on the field consistently with Thomas and Buckner. I hope he develops into a beast and we have 3 guys who are all pro caliber players but the idea of passing on an all around player like Thomas who fits this team so well not only on the field but in the locker room to give Armstead a chance...no thanks. I was willing to give Baalke and his picks a chance but the results are becoming crystal clear and I don't want to be burned again.

Let's get one thing straight. Thomas is not more athletic than Khalil Mack. His 3 cone time and shuttle time, while impressive, do not make him more agile or more flexible than Mack. They are drills run one time and hand timed with a high degree of error and variability (you could have a bad start, you could have a bad attempt where your transition from cone to cone isn't great). This doesn't supersede all the tape on these guys and their performance in position drills.

On the other hand, Khalil Mack is clearly more explosive and faster and has the jumps, the 40 time, and the 10 yard split to support that. He also has slightly longer arms at 33 1/4". If I'm picking a player for the LEO position, I'm choosing Mack 100 times out of 100 before Solomon Thomas.

Thomas is a great player and may be the best available player at 2, but he's not the kind of talent who is a lock to go in the top 3 in any draft. He's someone who could fall to the 6-10 range in this year's draft because his size is a concern on the interior and his length and lack of experience is a concern on the edge (particularly if teams are unsure of his ability to bend). In this particular draft, I don't think there's a huge talent disparity between Thomas and guys who could be available at 10.

Even if Garrett had a poor time in the shuttle and 3 cone (and I'm not convinced he would), he would still blow Thomas out of the water as a prospect because of his vastly superior length and his proven ability to bend off the edge. If we're considering picking Thomas at 2 to play him at LEO, I hope we're attempting to trade up with the Browns for Garrett. Maybe they like Trubisky or Watson and would be fine only getting a 2nd round pick back in addition to the #2 pick. Garrett would be worth it in my opinion.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Well we did let Gore walk...

Last I saw he played for SF for 10 yrs lol.

We didn't have an expensive roster when we were losing.

When we had Justin, Aldon, Willis, Bow, Brooks, Kap, etc money became tight.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Well we did let Gore walk...

They let an aging Gore walk. Hyde certainly has not played poorly and was measurably better this past season. Their major error was in not finding a dependable #2 RB to split carries with him.

An aging Gore that put up more yards. I wouldn't say Hyde has played well either.

There ya go no context..gore playing behind andrew luck avg less than 4 ypc which he never did in SF. Hyde playing with dirt as his qb and garbage coaching avg more ypc.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Well we did let Gore walk...

Last I saw he played for SF for 10 yrs lol.

We didn't have an expensive roster when we were losing.

When we had Justin, Aldon, Willis, Bow, Brooks, Kap, etc money became tight.

What does that have to do with anything? He got paid and paid well to be our RB for 10 freaking yrs...there aren't many RBs that can say they played on the same team that drafted them for 10 yrs.

Originally posted by jreff22:
An aging Gore that put up more yards. I wouldn't say Hyde has played well either.

Carlos Hyde-217 attempts, 988 yards, 4.6 yards per carry.

Frank Gore-263 attempts, 1,025 yards, 3.9 yards per carry.

So with an extra 46 carries, Gore racked up 37 more yards.

Carlos Hyde ranked 6th in the NFL in DYAR, 7th in DVOA.

Gore ranked 13th and 17th in the NFL respectively.

Hyde ran behind the 32nd ranked run-blocking OL. Gore the 3rd ranked run blocking OL.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

So yes, Hyde was measurably better, all while playing behind a far worse run-blocking OL with far worse QB's and offensive talent. Given those numbers its hard to argue for anything but sentimental reasons that the 49ers made a mistake moving on to Hyde.

Not moving on to a better QB, a better OL or having a competent #2 RB, absolutely.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Worry about that in 5 years. In the meantime I'm not going to complain about the team having two potentially dominant front seven players in Buckner and Thomas.

How did that work for Iupati and Davis? It's inevitable that 1 is gone. You're relying on youth so it will struggle early still so you may get a couple of years of a dominant line.