Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Drafting this kid and making him switch positions to play LEO would be extremely disastrous.

It'd be like moving Carradine around. Baalke will probably be laughing at us in a few years

It's not like Carradine. Thomas has a weight good enough to play either 4-3 DE while Carradine was asked to gain weight to play 3-4 DE. Also Thomas is way more talented and less injury prone than Tank.

Originally posted by genus49:
Does it matter? You're claiming tape and scouting reports should override combine numbers and athletic ability when figuring out what a guy can or cannot do. Weight or athletic ability shouldn't come into the picture based on your point. Tape and scouting reports never said Justin would make a better 3-4 DE.

Who said Thomas is going to pick up weight? He can gain weight or drop it depending on where we think is his best fit. Or he could stay at his current weight and succeed wherever we put him.

I feel like this is a "what weighs more a lb of feather or lb of bricks" type of discussion.

If a Leo weighs 250 lbs but runs slower than Thomas who is 273 lbs...why are you ok with the smaller yet slower guy playing there but can't comprehend a bigger, faster and more athletic guy having success at the same position?

Once again there is saying Thomas' best fit is in the Michael Bennett role vs the Cliff Avril role and there is saying he can't handle the Cliff Avril role all together.

Also...speed rushers typically aren't very good at stopping the run, do you recall how awesome our run D was last year? Now Armstead had a busted shoulder but once again...assuming that he's gong to live up to potential and dominate can prove to be a giant mistake. We have 1 guy on our DL who we know is a great player who we can rely on. We need 4 guys. Draft Thomas, move Buckner inside and let Armstead prove he belongs on the same field as those guys.

Our run d was horrible but we were playing with a rookie and a 1 year starter with a busted shoulder. They're going to get better over time and the pieces around them will improve too.

The smaller but shorter guy might have other attributes like length, years at the position to overcome some talent and I've never argued for the Barnett's of the world either there. I would play Garrett there and he's 270 but he also played end in college and is a better athlete. In fact the most athletic 270 pounder to ever come out. I wouldn't consider moving him to tackle though like I could with Soloman Thomas regardless to what his measurements might suggest. Playing him like Bennett is a real option so I'm not completely against taking him I just think we're already set at 3 and 5.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jreff22:

How many of his 8 sacks did he produce on the outside?

Showing athletic ability in underwear doesn't prove anything. Is this your first year watching the combine? Every year guys look overly athletic and it puts people into a spin. Because he runs drills fast does not mean he's going to excel at bending the edge. You are hung up on numbers that guys put up wearing compression shorts. Do you think the fastest guys make the best football players? The combine is one metric used to judge a player.

He is going to set the edge on rushing downs. On passing downs you move him to exploit gaps and use his strength. He's not going to be battling LT's for pressure. No matter how hard you want it, he's not going to be doing it.

Maybe he wasn't used on the edge full time because he was so dominate inside that every cross you mind? Doesn't mean he can't play that role....also for the 10th time I'm not drafting him to play straight up on the edge....HE CAN PLAY ALL OVER THAT LINE!

Numbers backup what he can do on the field...go watch his games buddy he's strong, fast, has plenty of pass rush moves, violent hands.

How about you go watch some of his games...he lined up against a LT all the time

How many sacks did he generate playing RDE? We can play anybody at the position, doesn't mean it's the best fit or it will generate any sacks.

Both of you literally said his play was limited at DE because he did so well inside...that's the whole f**king point.

Both of you would move him outside...what's the point?

I still think some are way overthinking it when it comes to Thomas. This team has a deficit of great football players. Thomas is a great football prospect. I doubt that any team that drafts him will keep him static at one position as opposed to taking advantage of his versatility and outstanding athleticism and moving him all around the DL based on the most favorable matchup. Usually with most prospects there is some tradeoff that has to be made, you get a guy with fantastic athletic ability but one that is extremely raw and is largely a projection or you get someone really bright but with limited physical tools, incredibly gifted but motor is inconsistent.

Thomas to me is the whole package. Athletic ability, motor, intelligence, awareness and leadership all in one. Still somewhat raw due to his limited college experience but fairly advanced technically. You find a spot for a guy like that and if the end result is that you make Armstead a rotational player and have to move him in a year or two, so be it if that means you wind up with a superior player out on the field and I don't think anyone will argue that Thomas isn't a superior prospect to Armstead. With the scheme they will be running you're going to need a deeper DL rotation so its not like this team is that stacked at DL that adding a versatile, potentially dominant interior player isn't going to be of a tremendous benefit.

In the end it comes down to "where do you play him" but considering the natural talent, the athleticism, the effort level and hustle, I think every single defensive coordinator in the NFL is up to take on the challenge of finding a spot for him where he will be able to simply wreck the opposing offense and be a constant nuisance all game long. The ceiling on Thomas is pretty special, the type of player that he can develop into is remarkable when you consider how skilled and talented he already is. If the Browns take Garrett and the 49ers pass on a QB, to me he is the most logical option. An elite, cornerstone type prospect for a roster that lacks elite talent, someone that can develop and grow with the rest of the roster.

Originally posted by jreff22:
How many sacks did he generate playing RDE? We can play anybody at the position, doesn't mean it's the best fit or it will generate any sacks.

Both of you literally said his play was limited at DE because he did so well inside...that's the whole f**king point.

Both of you would move him outside...what's the point?

Dude your missing the whole point...no one is saying draft him to play LEO strictly. He can play outside when needed and in certain packages. He's a mismatch nightmare. He has the athletic ability to play wherever.

there isn't a LEO pass rusher worth drafting at two (myles isn't gonna be there) AND if we can't trade down you draft the best player which is Solomon IMO. #1 run defender in college this past yr and 6th ranked pass rusher. IF you have a chance to draft a player the caliber on Justin Smith or Bennett you do it!

Like I said who makes that front 7 go, Bennett or Irvin and Avril??? please answer that for me. You get two monster DL players like Buck and Thomas who can play all over that line, it makes our secondary and whomever is playing the LEO job that much easier.

I never stated move him outside, I said he can play there if need be....huge difference

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I still think some are way overthinking it when it comes to Thomas. This team has a deficit of great football players. Thomas is a great football prospect. I doubt that any team that drafts him will keep him static at one position as opposed to taking advantage of his versatility and outstanding athleticism and moving him all around the DL based on the most favorable matchup. Usually with most prospects there is some tradeoff that has to be made, you get a guy with fantastic athletic ability but one that is extremely raw and is largely a projection or you get someone really bright but with limited physical tools, incredibly gifted but motor is inconsistent.

Thomas to me is the whole package. Athletic ability, motor, intelligence, awareness and leadership all in one. Still somewhat raw due to his limited college experience but fairly advanced technically. You find a spot for a guy like that and if the end result is that you make Armstead a rotational player and have to move him in a year or two, so be it if that means you wind up with a superior player out on the field and I don't think anyone will argue that Thomas isn't a superior prospect to Armstead. With the scheme they will be running you're going to need a deeper DL rotation so its not like this team is that stacked at DL that adding a versatile, potentially dominant interior player isn't going to be of a tremendous benefit.

In the end it comes down to "where do you play him" but considering the natural talent, the athleticism, the effort level and hustle, I think every single defensive coordinator in the NFL is up to take on the challenge of finding a spot for him where he will be able to simply wreck the opposing offense and be a constant nuisance all game long. The ceiling on Thomas is pretty special, the type of player that he can develop into is remarkable when you consider how skilled and talented he already is. If the Browns take Garrett and the 49ers pass on a QB, to me he is the most logical option. An elite, cornerstone type prospect for a roster that lacks elite talent, someone that can develop and grow with the rest of the roster.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Dude your missing the whole point...no one is saying draft him to play LEO strictly. He can play outside when needed and in certain packages. He's a mismatch nightmare. He has the athletic ability to play wherever.

there isn't a LEO pass rusher worth drafting at two (myles isn't gonna be there) AND if we can't trade down you draft the best player which is Solomon IMO. #1 run defender in college this past yr and 6th ranked pass rusher. IF you have a chance to draft a player the caliber on Justin Smith or Bennett you do it!

Like I said who makes that front 7 go, Bennett or Irvin and Avril??? please answer that for me. You get two monster DL players like Buck and Thomas who can play all over that line, it makes our secondary and whomever is playing the LEO job that much easier.

I never stated move him outside, I said he can play there if need be....huge difference

You need both Bennett and Irvin and in the end it's going to be impossible to keep Thomas, Buckner and a Leo while having to also consider Sherman and Thomas are the real studs of the d. They were an elite d before Bennett and Avril showed up. I know you saw and made this argument with Allen too and I get it's a little bit different in that Thomas can slide around but we already got a stud at either 3, 5 and someone who should be a good starter at the other. It's an unnecessary upgrade.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I still think some are way overthinking it when it comes to Thomas. This team has a deficit of great football players. Thomas is a great football prospect. I doubt that any team that drafts him will keep him static at one position as opposed to taking advantage of his versatility and outstanding athleticism and moving him all around the DL based on the most favorable matchup. Usually with most prospects there is some tradeoff that has to be made, you get a guy with fantastic athletic ability but one that is extremely raw and is largely a projection or you get someone really bright but with limited physical tools, incredibly gifted but motor is inconsistent.

Thomas to me is the whole package. Athletic ability, motor, intelligence, awareness and leadership all in one. Still somewhat raw due to his limited college experience but fairly advanced technically. You find a spot for a guy like that and if the end result is that you make Armstead a rotational player and have to move him in a year or two, so be it if that means you wind up with a superior player out on the field and I don't think anyone will argue that Thomas isn't a superior prospect to Armstead. With the scheme they will be running you're going to need a deeper DL rotation so its not like this team is that stacked at DL that adding a versatile, potentially dominant interior player isn't going to be of a tremendous benefit.

In the end it comes down to "where do you play him" but considering the natural talent, the athleticism, the effort level and hustle, I think every single defensive coordinator in the NFL is up to take on the challenge of finding a spot for him where he will be able to simply wreck the opposing offense and be a constant nuisance all game long. The ceiling on Thomas is pretty special, the type of player that he can develop into is remarkable when you consider how skilled and talented he already is. If the Browns take Garrett and the 49ers pass on a QB, to me he is the most logical option. An elite, cornerstone type prospect for a roster that lacks elite talent, someone that can develop and grow with the rest of the roster.

Yes!!!! Sometimes you just have to get the best player available. This guy was better than Armsteads college self and I am willing to be he will have a more dominant rookie campaign. Having a deadly rotation in the d-line is what I would want, especially in a 4-3 defense. Having guys fresh in the 4th quarter will be huge.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I still think some are way overthinking it when it comes to Thomas. This team has a deficit of great football players. Thomas is a great football prospect. I doubt that any team that drafts him will keep him static at one position as opposed to taking advantage of his versatility and outstanding athleticism and moving him all around the DL based on the most favorable matchup. Usually with most prospects there is some tradeoff that has to be made, you get a guy with fantastic athletic ability but one that is extremely raw and is largely a projection or you get someone really bright but with limited physical tools, incredibly gifted but motor is inconsistent.

Thomas to me is the whole package. Athletic ability, motor, intelligence, awareness and leadership all in one. Still somewhat raw due to his limited college experience but fairly advanced technically. You find a spot for a guy like that and if the end result is that you make Armstead a rotational player and have to move him in a year or two, so be it if that means you wind up with a superior player out on the field and I don't think anyone will argue that Thomas isn't a superior prospect to Armstead. With the scheme they will be running you're going to need a deeper DL rotation so its not like this team is that stacked at DL that adding a versatile, potentially dominant interior player isn't going to be of a tremendous benefit.

In the end it comes down to "where do you play him" but considering the natural talent, the athleticism, the effort level and hustle, I think every single defensive coordinator in the NFL is up to take on the challenge of finding a spot for him where he will be able to simply wreck the opposing offense and be a constant nuisance all game long. The ceiling on Thomas is pretty special, the type of player that he can develop into is remarkable when you consider how skilled and talented he already is. If the Browns take Garrett and the 49ers pass on a QB, to me he is the most logical option. An elite, cornerstone type prospect for a roster that lacks elite talent, someone that can develop and grow with the rest of the roster.

Good post. For me, Thomas is the guy I want the Niners to take. He will be that impact player on the D line, wreaking havoc all over the place and causing nightmares for other teams and forcing them to gameplan around him. I also think Hooker could be a good fit at S in patrolling the secondary in the way this D will need with the new scheme - I wonder about whether or not Ward will be able to provide the needed impact in being moved to that role (if it happens).

Originally posted by tjd808185:
You need both Bennett and Irvin and in the end it's going to be impossible to keep Thomas, Buckner and a Leo while having to also consider Sherman and Thomas are the real studs of the d. They were an elite d before Bennett and Avril showed up. I know you saw and made this argument with Allen too and I get it's a little bit different in that Thomas can slide around but we already got a stud at either 3, 5 and someone who should be a good starter at the other. It's an unnecessary upgrade.

wait what stud? we have Buck and that's it man (everyone else to this point is depth)...I'm one of the more positive posters about AA but honestly we don't know what we have or if he will even be a fit for this system.

It's far from a unnecessary upgrade, you need a strong DL and Thomas gives us that. I'm taking the best defensive player behind Myles if we stay put. Allen IMO is more of a 3-4 DE that was my biggest issue with him and he's got shoulder problems on top of it. Worst run D in the history of the NFL so getting the #1 rated run stopper and top 6 pass rushing DL is a unnecessary upgrade..oh okay.

We don't have crazy talent at any position. You want to draft a RB I want to draft a stud DL guy who can be a mismatch all over that line. That's really what it comes down to. Too each their own...i'm leaving it at that.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Good post. For me, Thomas is the guy I want the Niners to take. He will be that impact player on the D line, wreaking havoc all over the place and causing nightmares for other teams and forcing them to gameplan around him. I also think Hooker could be a good fit at S in patrolling the secondary in the way this D will need with the new scheme - I wonder about whether or not Ward will be able to provide the needed impact in being moved to that role (if it happens).

I think that a combination of Buckner and Thomas, regardless of where you play them, could be very special. If they could get an edge rusher type such as Charles Harris by moving up from their 2nd rounder, to me that would be two HUGE steps towards improving the weaknesses on the defense from last season. I think those two guys would put the team in much better position to focus on offense through the remainder of the draft.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Dude your missing the whole point...no one is saying draft him to play LEO strictly. He can play outside when needed and in certain packages. He's a mismatch nightmare. He has the athletic ability to play wherever.

there isn't a LEO pass rusher worth drafting at two (myles isn't gonna be there) AND if we can't trade down you draft the best player which is Solomon IMO. #1 run defender in college this past yr and 6th ranked pass rusher. IF you have a chance to draft a player the caliber on Justin Smith or Bennett you do it!

Like I said who makes that front 7 go, Bennett or Irvin and Avril??? please answer that for me. You get two monster DL players like Buck and Thomas who can play all over that line, it makes our secondary and whomever is playing the LEO job that much easier.

I never stated move him outside, I said he can play there if need be....huge difference

were going to have to agree to disagree. I don't see him beating LT's anymore than Tank. So I don't know where you see the mismatch in that situation. His strength is bringing pressure from the inside, that's the opinion from every analyst that has watched him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
wait what stud? we have Buck and that's it man (everyone else to this point is depth)...I'm one of the more positive posters about AA but honestly we don't know what we have or if he will even be a fit for this system.

It's far from a unnecessary upgrade, you need a strong DL and Thomas gives us that. I'm taking the best defensive player behind Myles if we stay put. Allen IMO is more of a 3-4 DE that was my biggest issue with him and he's got shoulder problems on top of it. Worst run D in the history of the NFL so getting the #1 rated run stopper and top 6 pass rushing DL is a unnecessary upgrade..oh okay.

We don't have crazy talent at any position. You want to draft a RB I want to draft a stud DL guy who can be a mismatch all over that line. That's really what it comes down to. Too each their own...i'm leaving it at that.

You don't turn down a great prospect to go all in on an uncertain player. Armstead might be great, or he might be average or worse. Thomas looks to have the upside to be a great player in the NFL, a disruptive force on the DL. You draft Thomas and if Armstead plays well then you have a fantastic rotation and some nice trade bait down the road. If Armstead is average or worse, then he's a rotational guy for a few years and you let him walk, another missed draft pick from Baalke.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I still think some are way overthinking it when it comes to Thomas. This team has a deficit of great football players. Thomas is a great football prospect. I doubt that any team that drafts him will keep him static at one position as opposed to taking advantage of his versatility and outstanding athleticism and moving him all around the DL based on the most favorable matchup. Usually with most prospects there is some tradeoff that has to be made, you get a guy with fantastic athletic ability but one that is extremely raw and is largely a projection or you get someone really bright but with limited physical tools, incredibly gifted but motor is inconsistent.

Thomas to me is the whole package. Athletic ability, motor, intelligence, awareness and leadership all in one. Still somewhat raw due to his limited college experience but fairly advanced technically. You find a spot for a guy like that and if the end result is that you make Armstead a rotational player and have to move him in a year or two, so be it if that means you wind up with a superior player out on the field and I don't think anyone will argue that Thomas isn't a superior prospect to Armstead. With the scheme they will be running you're going to need a deeper DL rotation so its not like this team is that stacked at DL that adding a versatile, potentially dominant interior player isn't going to be of a tremendous benefit.

In the end it comes down to "where do you play him" but considering the natural talent, the athleticism, the effort level and hustle, I think every single defensive coordinator in the NFL is up to take on the challenge of finding a spot for him where he will be able to simply wreck the opposing offense and be a constant nuisance all game long. The ceiling on Thomas is pretty special, the type of player that he can develop into is remarkable when you consider how skilled and talented he already is. If the Browns take Garrett and the 49ers pass on a QB, to me he is the most logical option. An elite, cornerstone type prospect for a roster that lacks elite talent, someone that can develop and grow with the rest of the roster.

Another thing Thomas can add is that we can move to a 3-man line and add an additional DB in passing downs b/c of Buckner and Mitchell. 2-gapping was a strength of AA's as well but Thomas seems pretty refined at this stage and might be able to add additional pass rush.

Originally posted by jreff22:
were going to have to agree to disagree. I don't see him beating LT's anymore than Tank. So I don't know where you see the mismatch in that situation. His strength is bringing pressure from the inside, that's the opinion from every analyst that has watched him.

I don't think he's a guy that will be limited to playing one spot on the DL. He's primarily an interior player but there is no reason why a team wouldn't move him to the outside depending on the matchup they are getting from the opposing OL. He'll be able to flat out overpower some tackles and use his quickness and power to beat guards inside. You draft him as a guy that the opposing offense will have to account for on every single snap, regardless of where he is lined up. Someone that a creative playcaller will be able to have some fun with, move him around and use him to target an OL's weak spots.