BPA

Originally posted by kentc1978:

Maybe its just me, but I've always seen it as riskier to reach at the top of the draft for need vs the later parts of the draft. You're 1,2,3rd round picks shape your team and the later parts fill your team. I think there really is no right answer on this, its just all philosophy

It all depends, but there's got a be a blend of BPA vs need...if you have say Tyron smith and LT is BPA your not taking LT, if Dallas is on the clock and fournette is BPA they aren't drafting him...I think you can kinda get rid of need as much the further you go down and go BPA.

I agree no right answer

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
Hindsight 20/20 always works. Fact is, Raiders were looking for OL help and the Lions were WR crazy for a few years. Had Ben gone to the Raiders, he probably wouldn't be who he is today. They were a horrible organization with a crappy defense and did not have the ability to draft and develop solid WRs like the Steelers do. The Lions are the Lions and have always been crap. The Raiders and Lions didn't pass on Ben for guys who were arguably the best players in the draft. They may have overdrafted those guys but neither of them were in the discussion for the best player in the draft. Allen is. Garrett is the consensus but Allen is an absolute game changer in the areas we need significant help. We can't stop the run and we can't rush the passer. Allen can do both and is the closest thing to a guarantee next to Garrett. Trubisky has one year of playing. I love him but be real, he has 1 season playing in an offense that throws a ton of WR screen passes Watson has been solid these past two years but suffers from similar issues that Kap does regarding progressions and seeing the field and he plays with exceptional talent on offense so I expect him to put up great numbers. I'm looking forward to his playoff performance this year but I think #2 is too early for Watson. The fact that we have glaring holes to fill on both sides of the ball and pass rush is just as much of a priority as QB is, Allen is significantly better than any QB prospect in this draft and is elite vs the run and vs the pass. I'd rather take Allen at 2 and Mahomes in the 2nd than to draft Watson at #2. Trubisky I'd be fine with but wouldn't be upset at all if the pick is Allen, is all I'm saying.

Trubisky's numbers aren't much different from Marquise Williams last year in that same system. Trubisky has a slightly better completion %, a couple more TDs and less INTs but Williams also had damn near 1,000 yards rushing with 13 TDs. Is it the system? Again, I like Trubisky a lot but putting things into perspective, he has 1 year of football in a system that is clearly very favorable to a QB and he hasn't looked significantly better than Williams, a guy who went undrafted

Your right hindsight is 20/20...the other poster brought up locker, Blaine, EJ as reasons to not draft a qb but I could easily say if they went to different teams things could have been different just as you did with Big Ben

Williams was a run first qb turbisky isn't...you can look at film and see the differences between the two.

You say draft Allen yet we have youth there and it's not really a glaring hole compared to much more important positons...mahomes has all but said he's staying. When your in a position to draft the top qb and you literally have no qb on the roster you do it.

Get a coaching staff that can develop a qb and put some weapons around him...we've drafted defense 4 yrs in a row. Drafting a qb changes a franchise drafting your third DE in three yrs IMO sets the team back more than help it.

If you really hate our DE situation then get a solid vet to help the young guns out we have money to spend.

Yeah I think we certainly need to spend some money to compliment the roster. My argument for Allen is simple, you draft game changers in the top 10. Allen is a game changer. Yes we have youth at DE but Armstead isn't close to the prospect Allen is. I'm not saying Allen should be first on our board, I'm just saying if the team feels our run and pass defense can improve with one selection, that's a good pick. We are historically bad defensively and we need all the help we can get on that side of the ball. We reached for Alex in 2005. What a waste. Just because you need a QB doesn't mean you reach for one and hope for the best. Allen is significantly better than every single QB in this draft and it's not even close. If it was close, then sure take a chance but just because CBS ranks a QB in the top 5 (mainly because of the position he plays), doesn't mean he is truly close to the level of player that Allen is. We need game changers and Allen is just that and we would look even smarter if we hire a guy like Bradley and end up switching to a 4-3 where we can run Buckner, Armstead, Allen and Lynch out there. With that said, I'd have no issues drafting Trubisky at #2. But if the pick is Allen, I'm perfectly fine with that.

One thing we should keep in mind is the QB needy teams willing to reach. They will up the value of the QBs in the draft.

CHI (4)
NYJ (6)
CLE (1,8)
ARI (10)

IMO Tru and Watson are the only 1st round talent QBs in this draft. With 6 of the top 10 picks belonging to QB needy teams. They may become Top 10 talent due to supply and demand.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It all depends, but there's got a be a blend of BPA vs need...if you have say Tyron smith and LT is BPA your not taking LT, if Dallas is on the clock and fournette is BPA they aren't drafting him...I think you can kinda get rid of need as much the further you go down and go BPA.

I agree no right answer

Unless you're the Detroit Lions and pick WR's in the top 10 3 years in a row

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Yeah I think we certainly need to spend some money to compliment the roster. My argument for Allen is simple, you draft game changers in the top 10. Allen is a game changer. Yes we have youth at DE but Armstead isn't close to the prospect Allen is. I'm not saying Allen should be first on our board, I'm just saying if the team feels our run and pass defense can improve with one selection, that's a good pick. We are historically bad defensively and we need all the help we can get on that side of the ball. We reached for Alex in 2005. What a waste. Just because you need a QB doesn't mean you reach for one and hope for the best. Allen is significantly better than every single QB in this draft and it's not even close. If it was close, then sure take a chance but just because CBS ranks a QB in the top 5 (mainly because of the position he plays), doesn't mean he is truly close to the level of player that Allen is. We need game changers and Allen is just that and we would look even smarter if we hire a guy like Bradley and end up switching to a 4-3 where we can run Buckner, Armstead, Allen and Lynch out there. With that said, I'd have no issues drafting Trubisky at #2. But if the pick is Allen, I'm perfectly fine with that.

I don't think Alex was a miss, I think he was put in a horrible position and didn't have the personnel in place to develop him...he's currently rolling on a playoff team and been a starter in the league for 10 yrs.

If your gonna wait around for the next Andrew luck good luck, all of these qbs coming out now need to be developed because of the system run in college. Why not start developing them now vs two yrs from now?

Allen while a premier talent isn't gonna change the team around like a qb would. He's a Gerald McCoy type of talent and guess what TB still sucked even after they drafted him...not until they got a qb did things start changing.

While the run D is a issue I don't think you can throw that all on AA...they still sucked after he left, having zero at ILB/NT & scheme also play a huge part in it.

I like Blair and jones as notational guys and you don't spend a top 2 pick on a guy that's gonna rotate snaps imo. If DE is something that is that huge of a issue get a vet don't spend yet another 1st rd pick on it.

Myles and If he's not there go after Trubisky.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
Yeah I think we certainly need to spend some money to compliment the roster. My argument for Allen is simple, you draft game changers in the top 10. Allen is a game changer. Yes we have youth at DE but Armstead isn't close to the prospect Allen is. I'm not saying Allen should be first on our board, I'm just saying if the team feels our run and pass defense can improve with one selection, that's a good pick. We are historically bad defensively and we need all the help we can get on that side of the ball. We reached for Alex in 2005. What a waste. Just because you need a QB doesn't mean you reach for one and hope for the best. Allen is significantly better than every single QB in this draft and it's not even close. If it was close, then sure take a chance but just because CBS ranks a QB in the top 5 (mainly because of the position he plays), doesn't mean he is truly close to the level of player that Allen is. We need game changers and Allen is just that and we would look even smarter if we hire a guy like Bradley and end up switching to a 4-3 where we can run Buckner, Armstead, Allen and Lynch out there. With that said, I'd have no issues drafting Trubisky at #2. But if the pick is Allen, I'm perfectly fine with that.

I don't think Alex was a miss, I think he was put in a horrible position and didn't have the personnel in place to develop him...he's currently rolling on a playoff team and been a starter in the league for 10 yrs.

If your gonna wait around for the next Andrew luck good luck, all of these qbs coming out now need to be developed because of the system run in college. Why not start developing them now vs two yrs from now?

Allen while a premier talent isn't gonna change the team around like a qb would. He's a Gerald McCoy type of talent and guess what TB still sucked even after they drafted him...not until they got a qb did things start changing.

While the run D is a issue I don't think you can throw that all on AA...they still sucked after he left, having zero at ILB/NT & scheme also play a huge part in it.

I like Blair and jones as notational guys and you don't spend a top 2 pick on a guy that's gonna rotate snaps imo. If DE is something that is that huge of a issue get a vet don't spend yet another 1st rd pick on it.

Myles and If he's not there go after Trubisky.

Alex netted us nothing. I couldn't care less what he is doing on another team. We drafted him #1 overall and got nothing in return in 7 years other than a chance to go to the SB but we went 1-13 on 3rd downs in a very winnable game.

We aren't a QB away from being good. That is the problem. We have gaping holes on both sides of the ball with pass rusher being just as vital and missing. Allen is a rare talent who can rush the passer from the interior. A guy like Aaron Donald. He wrecks havoc in the run game similar to what JJ Watt can do. He is the defensive player of the year. He stands out on a team of standouts, that is how good he is. We have to get game changers. I'm tired of getting guys who "once they develop can possibly be something". We are picking 2nd and there isn't a QB on the board that realistically warrants that pick. Eagles went and got Wentz and despite having a solid defense, he has looked like crap since week 4. They should be picking in the top 10 for the 2nd straight year even though they took Wentz at #2 this year but they aren't because they traded so much for him that their pick after this piss poor season goes to someone else. I understand we need a QB. I also understand we need game changers, period. Armstead is not a game changer. Sucks we overdrafted him but he is not a game changer. Buckner can be. Allen can be. Allen and Buckner along the line with Logan/Poe/Williams at NT would be a huge step in the right direction for our defense.

Raiders didn't reach for Carr. They took their game changer first and grabbed Carr exactly where he should have been, at the top of the 2nd round. They are doing great. No matter how you look at it, we have to build this team. Whether you start with QB or defense, we have to bring in immediate impact players and Jonathan Allen and Myles Garrett are two that are head and shoulders above the rest. I'm not saying Trubisky would be a bad pick. I'm just saying Allen would be a smart pick

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Alex netted us nothing. I couldn't care less what he is doing on another team. We drafted him #1 overall and got nothing in return in 7 years other than a chance to go to the SB but we went 1-13 on 3rd downs in a very winnable game.

We aren't a QB away from being good. That is the problem. We have gaping holes on both sides of the ball with pass rusher being just as vital and missing. Allen is a rare talent who can rush the passer from the interior. A guy like Aaron Donald. He wrecks havoc in the run game similar to what JJ Watt can do. He is the defensive player of the year. He stands out on a team of standouts, that is how good he is. We have to get game changers. I'm tired of getting guys who "once they develop can possibly be something". We are picking 2nd and there isn't a QB on the board that realistically warrants that pick. Eagles went and got Wentz and despite having a solid defense, he has looked like crap since week 4. They should be picking in the top 10 for the 2nd straight year even though they took Wentz at #2 this year but they aren't because they traded so much for him that their pick after this piss poor season goes to someone else. I understand we need a QB. I also understand we need game changers, period. Armstead is not a game changer. Sucks we overdrafted him but he is not a game changer. Buckner can be. Allen can be. Allen and Buckner along the line with Logan/Poe/Williams at NT would be a huge step in the right direction for our defense.

Raiders didn't reach for Carr. They took their game changer first and grabbed Carr exactly where he should have been, at the top of the 2nd round. They are doing great. No matter how you look at it, we have to build this team. Whether you start with QB or defense, we have to bring in immediate impact players and Jonathan Allen and Myles Garrett are two that are head and shoulders above the rest. I'm not saying Trubisky would be a bad pick. I'm just saying Allen would be a smart pick

He netted us 2 2nd rd picks and when he had a real coaching staff and didn't have a revolving door at OC he got us to the NFC championship.

Yup Donald and Watt are forces on defense but how's that looking in the wins and losses department? I don't see the Rams winning and what have the Texans done? I mean their 8-6 and that's without Watt for most of the yr.

Drafting Allen would be a waste based on what we have, you might dislike AA but the fact is the book isn't close to written on him. Your not gonna throw Allen,AA, or Buckner in on NT either total waste of their talents.

You throw out Carr like there's one chilling in the 2nd rd every yr...who's that Carr prospect this yr? Facts are teams got it wrong with him and he'd be a top 10 pick if things were done again....Why can't Trubisky be Carr? Would you not take Carr at 2?

I'm NOT in favor of drafting DE for the 3rd straight yr in a row and to have him rotate in with are other 4 young DL prospects, the young guys on the DL should be getting more snaps not less...if you want to get a vet on the DL I'd be more in favor of that. Chris baker is a FA and can play all over that line.

Originally posted by kentc1978:

Unless you're the Detroit Lions and pick WR's in the top 10 3 years in a row

There's BPA at its finest

Originally posted by NYniner85:
He netted us 2 2nd rd picks and when he had a real coaching staff and didn't have a revolving door at OC he got us to the NFC championship.

Yup Donald and Watt are forces on defense but how's that looking in the wins and losses department? I don't see the Rams winning and what have the Texans done? I mean their 8-6 and that's without Watt for most of the yr.

Drafting Allen would be a waste based on what we have, you might dislike AA but the fact is the book isn't close to written on him. Your not gonna throw Allen,AA, or Buckner in on NT either total waste of their talents.

You throw out Carr like there's one chilling in the 2nd rd every yr...who's that Carr prospect this yr? Facts are teams got it wrong with him and he'd be a top 10 pick if things were done again....Why can't Trubisky be Carr? Would you not take Carr at 2?

I'm NOT in favor of drafting DE for the 3rd straight yr in a row and to have him rotate in with are other 4 young DL prospects, the young guys on the DL should be getting more snaps not less...if you want to get a vet on the DL I'd be more in favor of that. Chris baker is a FA and can play all over that line.

Netted us 2 2nd round picks and how has that worked out? On the verge of going 1-15. Kaepernick got us to the SB, and two NFCCGs. Still, we are ready to move on aren't we? Alex was a failure no matter how you slice it. He was here for 7 years and most of those years we were in the dumps. When we got a coaching staff, we got as far as we possibly could with Alex at the helm. 1-13 on 3rd downs in a winnable game is garbage. We made the switch to Kap and it was the offense that led us to the SB, not the defense. Alex has since gone to KC and played with a great defense, great run game and still hasn't sniffed the SB. And he won't sniff the SB in typical Alex fashion where he will get you just far enough to think everything is all good without getting you far enough to be the champion.

The Texans are 8-6 despite their QB. Broncos won the SB despite their QB. The Rams had Jeff Fisher for a HC so not sure how they could've possibly produced a winning season despite having a solid defense because...Jeff Fisher. Texans made the playoffs with Brian Hoyer at QB. We have to build somewhere and it starts with impact players that are there for the taking, not reaching for someone and hoping for the best. Again, you are acting as if it is Allen or bust for me. It's not. I said I would be fine with Trubisky at #2 but I'd also be fine if Allen's name is called because of the HUGE impact he has in two different phases of the game (run and pass defense), which BTW, are two areas we are utterly garbage in. I like AA and am not writing him off. What if we hire Gus Bradley as a DC and go to a 4-3? Now we have all three of them in at the same time. If we don't then fine, we just beefed up the most important unit on defense by getting a 3 down guy in Allen and allowing AA to be a solid rotational guy (which every team needs). Again, we clearly overdrafted AA. Doesn't mean he is a scrub, he is just nowhere close the level Allen is and passing up Allen because you aren't willing to admit we overdrafted a guy two years ago is foolish, to say the least.

Originally posted by SanFranFanfrmVa:

Originally posted by Murphys1:
To me, if Garrett is gone, our braintrust needs to decide between Trubinski and Watson. If they are sold on one of them, take him. Braintrust...sheesh.

That potentially could set the franchise back another 4 to 5 years. If Garrett is gone you either trade back for a boat load or you draft Jonathon Allen.

Potentially, sure. You could say that about every pick, including Garrett. Fact is, we don't have a QB for next year. But you're right, a swing and miss at QB can be devastating for a franchise. Heck, our swing and miss at WR a few years ago has never really been recovered from yet. Twice, actually, with Rashaun Woods and AJ Jenkins both setting the franchise back on its heels.

Originally posted by TheNef77:
He's throwing it with anticipation too. Starts his delivery before the WR is open. That quality is hard to coach, especially among dual threat QBs.

I don't think it is hard to coach. You make sure that if a play isn't thrown in anticipation in practice, then you run it again and again until it is. Timing is essential in practice.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
Netted us 2 2nd round picks and how has that worked out? On the verge of going 1-15. Kaepernick got us to the SB, and two NFCCGs. Still, we are ready to move on aren't we? Alex was a failure no matter how you slice it. He was here for 7 years and most of those years we were in the dumps. When we got a coaching staff, we got as far as we possibly could with Alex at the helm. 1-13 on 3rd downs in a winnable game is garbage. We made the switch to Kap and it was the offense that led us to the SB, not the defense. Alex has since gone to KC and played with a great defense, great run game and still hasn't sniffed the SB. And he won't sniff the SB in typical Alex fashion where he will get you just far enough to think everything is all good without getting you far enough to be the champion.

The Texans are 8-6 despite their QB. Broncos won the SB despite their QB. The Rams had Jeff Fisher for a HC so not sure how they could've possibly produced a winning season despite having a solid defense because...Jeff Fisher. Texans made the playoffs with Brian Hoyer at QB. We have to build somewhere and it starts with impact players that are there for the taking, not reaching for someone and hoping for the best. Again, you are acting as if it is Allen or bust for me. It's not. I said I would be fine with Trubisky at #2 but I'd also be fine if Allen's name is called because of the HUGE impact he has in two different phases of the game (run and pass defense), which BTW, are two areas we are utterly garbage in. I like AA and am not writing him off. What if we hire Gus Bradley as a DC and go to a 4-3? Now we have all three of them in at the same time. If we don't then fine, we just beefed up the most important unit on defense by getting a 3 down guy in Allen and allowing AA to be a solid rotational guy (which every team needs). Again, we clearly overdrafted AA. Doesn't mean he is a scrub, he is just nowhere close the level Allen is and passing up Allen because you aren't willing to admit we overdrafted a guy two years ago is foolish, to say the least.

I mean two 2nd round picks is not bad...who's fault is it that we could do s**t with them lol? The Broncos bought that defense and I don't care if Manning didn't have a laser rocket arm, teams still had to game plan for him and no one manages the line and calls plays better then him.

How's that Denver team without a QB? Put up 3 pts last week and most likely don't make the playoffs. Texans aren't a team that's gonna compete for anything until they get a QB, Watt is wasting away.

I can't make a final says on AA who had 300 snaps his rookie yr and came into the season with a shoulder issue that needed surgery.

Giving up on a player that's only play like 500 snaps is foolish... guess the Texans should just have moved on from Clowney after two seasons as well if that's your thinking.

Also I can't assume we change to a 4-3 until all that stuff falls into place until then it's all about checking off the boxes off on what's need to rebuild a team which IMO these are the 3 most important positions.

1st- OB
2nd-LT check
3rd-Pass rusher

We can take care of one of the two with the 2nd pick (Turbuisky or Myles) get whomever is there.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by TheNef77:
He's throwing it with anticipation too. Starts his delivery before the WR is open. That quality is hard to coach, especially among dual threat QBs.

I don't think it is hard to coach. You make sure that if a play isn't thrown in anticipation in practice, then you run it again and again until it is. Timing is essential in practice.

Only so many plays and concepts you can run in practice. Then you have to hope they see it in gametime situations. It's easy to teach in a controlled atmosphere but the good ones can do it when it counts.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
Netted us 2 2nd round picks and how has that worked out? On the verge of going 1-15. Kaepernick got us to the SB, and two NFCCGs. Still, we are ready to move on aren't we? Alex was a failure no matter how you slice it. He was here for 7 years and most of those years we were in the dumps. When we got a coaching staff, we got as far as we possibly could with Alex at the helm. 1-13 on 3rd downs in a winnable game is garbage. We made the switch to Kap and it was the offense that led us to the SB, not the defense. Alex has since gone to KC and played with a great defense, great run game and still hasn't sniffed the SB. And he won't sniff the SB in typical Alex fashion where he will get you just far enough to think everything is all good without getting you far enough to be the champion.

The Texans are 8-6 despite their QB. Broncos won the SB despite their QB. The Rams had Jeff Fisher for a HC so not sure how they could've possibly produced a winning season despite having a solid defense because...Jeff Fisher. Texans made the playoffs with Brian Hoyer at QB. We have to build somewhere and it starts with impact players that are there for the taking, not reaching for someone and hoping for the best. Again, you are acting as if it is Allen or bust for me. It's not. I said I would be fine with Trubisky at #2 but I'd also be fine if Allen's name is called because of the HUGE impact he has in two different phases of the game (run and pass defense), which BTW, are two areas we are utterly garbage in. I like AA and am not writing him off. What if we hire Gus Bradley as a DC and go to a 4-3? Now we have all three of them in at the same time. If we don't then fine, we just beefed up the most important unit on defense by getting a 3 down guy in Allen and allowing AA to be a solid rotational guy (which every team needs). Again, we clearly overdrafted AA. Doesn't mean he is a scrub, he is just nowhere close the level Allen is and passing up Allen because you aren't willing to admit we overdrafted a guy two years ago is foolish, to say the least.

I mean two 2nd round picks is not bad...who's fault is it that we could do s**t with them lol? The Broncos bought that defense and I don't care if Manning didn't have a laser rocket arm, teams still had to game plan for him and no one manages the line and calls plays better then him.

How's that Denver team without a QB? Put up 3 pts last week and most likely don't make the playoffs. Texans aren't a team that's gonna compete for anything until they get a QB, Watt is wasting away.

I can't make a final says on AA who had 300 snaps his rookie yr and came into the season with a shoulder issue that needed surgery.

Giving up on a player that's only play like 500 snaps is foolish... guess the Texans should just have moved on from Clowney after two seasons as well if that's your thinking.

Also I can't assume we change to a 4-3 until all that stuff falls into place until then it's all about checking off the boxes off on what's need to rebuild a team which IMO these are the 3 most important positions.

1st- OB
2nd-LT check
3rd-Pass rusher

We can take care of one of the two with the 2nd pick (Turbuisky or Myles) get whomever is there.

It's the 49ers fault they couldn't do anything with those picks so the point still remains, we had Alex for 7 years after drafting him #1 overall and got absolutely nothing to show for it. He might have a couple of playoff victories in his 10 year career but that's not saying much and has nothing to do with us.

Manning sucked last year, period. His arm strength was weak, his decision making was weak. He was simply over the hill and got carried to his 2nd SB title. Broncos have had to use multiple QBs this year and are still 8-6 with a chance to finish 10-6. That's not bad at all. I agree, I think they miss the playoffs but if we missed the playoffs after WINNING the SB, I really wouldn't stress it. We are over 20 years removed from a SB title, if we win 1 in the next decade, I'd be satisfied. All it takes is one recent title and a lot is forgotten.

I'm not giving up on AA. I'm not saying release the dude I'm saying he can easily move the first DE off the bench with the addition of Allen. Allen is a 3 down player is better against the run and pass than AA so what's the problem? That is an immediate upgrade to the starting defensive end position.

Again, I go back and point to Wentz (and Goff). Both the Rams and Eagles have solid defenses and reached for both of those guys and how many wins has that netted them? Goff sucks. Cam looked promising. Luck looked promising. Goff looks lost and was a loser in college so to see that continue in the NFL despite having a star RB, a very solid defense and a playmaker at WR is not surprising in the least. But they needed a QB as they were already built up on defense. We are not. We need about 8 different positions so BPA becomes very smart when you are picking 2nd overall and Allen would clearly be the BPA and it's not even close

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
It's the 49ers fault they couldn't do anything with those picks so the point still remains, we had Alex for 7 years after drafting him #1 overall and got absolutely nothing to show for it. He might have a couple of playoff victories in his 10 year career but that's not saying much and has nothing to do with us.

Manning sucked last year, period. His arm strength was weak, his decision making was weak. He was simply over the hill and got carried to his 2nd SB title. Broncos have had to use multiple QBs this year and are still 8-6 with a chance to finish 10-6. That's not bad at all. I agree, I think they miss the playoffs but if we missed the playoffs after WINNING the SB, I really wouldn't stress it. We are over 20 years removed from a SB title, if we win 1 in the next decade, I'd be satisfied. All it takes is one recent title and a lot is forgotten.

I'm not giving up on AA. I'm not saying release the dude I'm saying he can easily move the first DE off the bench with the addition of Allen. Allen is a 3 down player is better against the run and pass than AA so what's the problem? That is an immediate upgrade to the starting defensive end position.

Again, I go back and point to Wentz (and Goff). Both the Rams and Eagles have solid defenses and reached for both of those guys and how many wins has that netted them? Goff sucks. Cam looked promising. Luck looked promising. Goff looks lost and was a loser in college so to see that continue in the NFL despite having a star RB, a very solid defense and a playmaker at WR is not surprising in the least. But they needed a QB as they were already built up on defense. We are not. We need about 8 different positions so BPA becomes very smart when you are picking 2nd overall and Allen would clearly be the BPA and it's not even close

AND like I said how's he doing now? He's currently has the 3rd highest winning % among starting QBs since 2012. We got value for him but have a dumb ass for a GM.

Like I said Denver bought there SB winning defense for the most part AND most of those guys came to Denver to play with a Manning. You think all those guys come there if say Jay Cutler is the QB lol?

The problem is your basically throwing AA on the bench after 500 snaps (thus labeling him a bust), you spending a top 2 pick to rotate? That's not a good investment IMO.

You brought up Fisher as a excuse as to why they aren't winning games with that "monster" defense, why can't I bring him into the picture for a reason Goff sucks as well?

Go look at the QBs in college...90% of them need to be developed and it's not gonna change. Most teams run some sort of spread offense now, so why not develop one of the top QBs NOW instead of waiting for the perfect QB to fall in our laps? Go look at the roster not one single QB is on the team for next yr....zero who's gonna be the QB? We are gonna be 1-16 and going for your 3rd DE in three yrs in the 1st is gonna magically improve things?

I'm so tired of hearing the word BPA like that really means anything. Teams draft for need and who's at the top of their board. DE isn't a need. IF Dallas was on the clock and Fournette was sitting there would they draft him because he's BPA?

Turbisky is currently the 4th overall rated player on CBS, Allen is 1st... so because we are drafting 2nd Mitch is too much of a reach (2 spots) I don't think so.

Top players don't always get drafted first...Leonard Williams was viewed as the best prospect in his draft class and went 6th. That Jet's team has three monsters on the DE and what's their record? No QB no consistent wins.

IMO it's got to be Myles or QB....if you can trade rape some team to move down a couple spots (and still be in a position to get a QB) I can live with that as well.