The #SuckForGoff Watch

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm okay with taking Goff at 7, but no effing way he's worth trading away picks for. Some of you guys are far too invested in the guy. I like the kid, but we need help in other places too badly to waste extra picks to get him.

I'm not advocating for trading up to get him. If he's not there at #7 we take BPA and get a QB later in the draft.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm okay with taking Goff at 7, but no effing way he's worth trading away picks for. Some of you guys are far too invested in the guy. I like the kid, but we need help in other places too badly to waste extra picks to get him.

I'd be willing to trade up a couple of spots to get him. I like him that much. I think he'd be tremendous for us.

Is all about being strategic at the end of the day. Let's keep it simple, if the 9ers don't think they will be drafting higher than 7th overall anytime soon, then the 9ers will have to make the move in the coming draft to take the next franchise QB. Trading up from 7th to say 3rd is more than acceptable. Otherwise what is the alternative? Just draft defensive players and bank on Gabbert? I don't think so somehow.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm okay with taking Goff at 7, but no effing way he's worth trading away picks for. Some of you guys are far too invested in the guy. I like the kid, but we need help in other places too badly to waste extra picks to get him.

I'm not advocating for trading up to get him. If he's not there at #7 we take BPA and get a QB later in the draft.

Yup.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:
No, that is ONLY your view. But, I think plenty of people do see both him and Wentz as legit franchise QBs, but any QB prospects after that is another matter.

I am not talking about which round Joe Montana was drafted. My point being is all things being equal, legit franchise QB vs legit pass rusher, the QB will have the upper hand everytime.

That did not prove to be he case in the Super Bowl this year. Miller dominated Manning.

It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you have to outscore your opponent in order to win. Yes, if your team has a stout D it will help somewhat if they can keep the other team's scoring to a minimum. But, not unless your D can consistently score on behalf of the O then you will need a damn good QB to win especially when faced with a a top D. I could even argue for example Cam Newton just wasn't good enough, may be if it was Joe Montana may be the outcome could have been different?

I stand corrected in the sense that a LEGIT franchise QB will have an advantage over most defenses. However, even that is not always the case. I recall the NYG defense led by LT that handled Montana and Rice in the NFCC game. 49-3, IIRC.

All that is beside my main question, which is, once again: Is Goff that kind of surefire franchise QB on the same level that Buckner and Bosa are rated by most as surefire game-changers on defense?

My answer is that he may be very good, even the best IN THIS YEAR'S GROUP, but I don't believe this group is all that good. I do believe this year's group of defenders, especially the top 10-15 are exceptional. I recently viewed Charles Davis noting this group of front line defenders is the best and deepest he has seen in several years.

I just want the best value for the team and I don't think Goff is worth passing on one of those truly outstanding defenders.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:
No, that is ONLY your view. But, I think plenty of people do see both him and Wentz as legit franchise QBs, but any QB prospects after that is another matter.

I am not talking about which round Joe Montana was drafted. My point being is all things being equal, legit franchise QB vs legit pass rusher, the QB will have the upper hand everytime.

That did not prove to be he case in the Super Bowl this year. Miller dominated Manning.

It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you have to outscore your opponent in order to win. Yes, if your team has a stout D it will help somewhat if they can keep the other team's scoring to a minimum. But, not unless your D can consistently score on behalf of the O then you will need a damn good QB to win especially when faced with a a top D. I could even argue for example Cam Newton just wasn't good enough, may be if it was Joe Montana may be the outcome could have been different?

I stand corrected in the sense that a LEGIT franchise QB will have an advantage over most defenses. However, even that is not always the case. I recall the NYG defense led by LT that handled Montana and Rice in the NFCC game. 49-3, IIRC.

All that is beside my main question, which is, once again: Is Goff that kind of surefire franchise QB on the same level that Buckner and Bosa are rated by most as surefire game-changers on defense?

My answer is that he may be very good, even the best IN THIS YEAR'S GROUP, but I don't believe this group is all that good. I do believe this year's group of defenders, especially the top 10-15 are exceptional. I recently viewed Charles Davis noting this group of front line defenders is the best and deepest he has seen in several years.

I just want the best value for the team and I don't think Goff is worth passing on one of those truly outstanding defenders.

Goff is now where near as impacting as those players

Shoot put Goff in the past draft years and he doesn't even measure up

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:
No, that is ONLY your view. But, I think plenty of people do see both him and Wentz as legit franchise QBs, but any QB prospects after that is another matter.

I am not talking about which round Joe Montana was drafted. My point being is all things being equal, legit franchise QB vs legit pass rusher, the QB will have the upper hand everytime.

That did not prove to be he case in the Super Bowl this year. Miller dominated Manning.

It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you have to outscore your opponent in order to win. Yes, if your team has a stout D it will help somewhat if they can keep the other team's scoring to a minimum. But, not unless your D can consistently score on behalf of the O then you will need a damn good QB to win especially when faced with a a top D. I could even argue for example Cam Newton just wasn't good enough, may be if it was Joe Montana may be the outcome could have been different?

I stand corrected in the sense that a LEGIT franchise QB will have an advantage over most defenses. However, even that is not always the case. I recall the NYG defense led by LT that handled Montana and Rice in the NFCC game. 49-3, IIRC.

All that is beside my main question, which is, once again: Is Goff that kind of surefire franchise QB on the same level that Buckner and Bosa are rated by most as surefire game-changers on defense?

My answer is that he may be very good, even the best IN THIS YEAR'S GROUP, but I don't believe this group is all that good. I do believe this year's group of defenders, especially the top 10-15 are exceptional. I recently viewed Charles Davis noting this group of front line defenders is the best and deepest he has seen in several years.

I just want the best value for the team and I don't think Goff is worth passing on one of those truly outstanding defenders.

I look at it completely differently. While I agree the QB class this year is probably not as good as years past, to me that makes it even more critical to take the cream of the crop and in this draft it is either Goff or Wentz cos after these two the drop-off is actually quite substantial. Whereas as you may agree the talents on the defensive side of the ball is actually much deeper whereby the 9ers can easily still pick up great prospects after the 1st round.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm okay with taking Goff at 7, but no effing way he's worth trading away picks for. Some of you guys are far too invested in the guy. I like the kid, but we need help in other places too badly to waste extra picks to get him.

If it means trading with the Chargers and only giving up a 2nd round pick this year and a 3rd next year and throwing in maybe Tramane Brock hell yes I would do it!!!

What do you mean ONLY a 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year and one of our top 2 CBs?!?! That's a terrible trade for a talent deprived team. Holy crap.

To move up for a franchise QB, absolutely not, considering what Atlanta and Washington moved up to get Julio Jones and RG3. The problem with your thinking is that you don't value Jared Goff as much and rather ride or die with Kaepernick. That's a very small trade or equal if you go by the draft value chart.

SD 3rd pick = 2,200 points

49ers 7th pick = 1,500 points

49ers 2nd round pick = 510 points

49ers 2017 3rd round pick = 100 points

You were saying??

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm okay with taking Goff at 7, but no effing way he's worth trading away picks for. Some of you guys are far too invested in the guy. I like the kid, but we need help in other places too badly to waste extra picks to get him.

If it means trading with the Chargers and only giving up a 2nd round pick this year and a 3rd next year and throwing in maybe Tramane Brock hell yes I would do it!!!

What do you mean ONLY a 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year and one of our top 2 CBs?!?! That's a terrible trade for a talent deprived team. Holy crap.

To move up for a franchise QB, absolutely not, considering what Atlanta and Washington moved up to get Julio Jones and RG3. The problem with your thinking is that you don't value Jared Goff as much and rather ride or die with Kaepernick. That's a very small trade or equal if you go by the draft value chart.

SD 3rd pick = 2,200 points

49ers 7th pick = 1,500 points

49ers 2nd round pick = 510 points

49ers 2017 3rd round pick = 100 points

You were saying??

I'm saying no prospect, including QBs, is worth a trade up. It doesn't matter what the trade chart says. Going 60 selections in the top end of the draft without a pick would be absolutely brutal for this franchise. We need help everywhere. And none of these QB prospects are elite. Stay at #7 and take BPA.

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm okay with taking Goff at 7, but no effing way he's worth trading away picks for. Some of you guys are far too invested in the guy. I like the kid, but we need help in other places too badly to waste extra picks to get him.

If it means trading with the Chargers and only giving up a 2nd round pick this year and a 3rd next year and throwing in maybe Tramane Brock hell yes I would do it!!!

What do you mean ONLY a 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year and one of our top 2 CBs?!?! That's a terrible trade for a talent deprived team. Holy crap.

To move up for a franchise QB, absolutely not, considering what Atlanta and Washington moved up to get Julio Jones and RG3. The problem with your thinking is that you don't value Jared Goff as much and rather ride or die with Kaepernick. That's a very small trade or equal if you go by the draft value chart.

SD 3rd pick = 2,200 points

49ers 7th pick = 1,500 points

49ers 2nd round pick = 510 points

49ers 2017 3rd round pick = 100 points

You were saying??

I'm saying no prospect, including QBs, is worth a trade up. It doesn't matter what the trade chart says. Going 60 selections in the top end of the draft without a pick would be absolutely brutal for this franchise. We need help everywhere. And none of these QB prospects are elite. Stay at #7 and take BPA.

Again, you do not value a franchise QB like most do, you would rather stick with Kap (judging by your post in the Kaepernick). It's not every day or even every draft that you'll get to pick up your franchise QB, and for those who think next years QB class is better need to take a harder look.

And judging from Trent Baalke's previous 2nd round picks, I'd say giving up a 2nd is a no-brainer.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:
No, that is ONLY your view. But, I think plenty of people do see both him and Wentz as legit franchise QBs, but any QB prospects after that is another matter.

I am not talking about which round Joe Montana was drafted. My point being is all things being equal, legit franchise QB vs legit pass rusher, the QB will have the upper hand everytime.

That did not prove to be he case in the Super Bowl this year. Miller dominated Manning.

It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you have to outscore your opponent in order to win. Yes, if your team has a stout D it will help somewhat if they can keep the other team's scoring to a minimum. But, not unless your D can consistently score on behalf of the O then you will need a damn good QB to win especially when faced with a a top D. I could even argue for example Cam Newton just wasn't good enough, may be if it was Joe Montana may be the outcome could have been different?

I stand corrected in the sense that a LEGIT franchise QB will have an advantage over most defenses. However, even that is not always the case. I recall the NYG defense led by LT that handled Montana and Rice in the NFCC game. 49-3, IIRC.

All that is beside my main question, which is, once again: Is Goff that kind of surefire franchise QB on the same level that Buckner and Bosa are rated by most as surefire game-changers on defense?

My answer is that he may be very good, even the best IN THIS YEAR'S GROUP, but I don't believe this group is all that good. I do believe this year's group of defenders, especially the top 10-15 are exceptional. I recently viewed Charles Davis noting this group of front line defenders is the best and deepest he has seen in several years.

I just want the best value for the team and I don't think Goff is worth passing on one of those truly outstanding defenders.

I look at it completely differently. While I agree the QB class this year is probably not as good as years past, to me that makes it even more critical to take the cream of the crop and in this draft it is either Goff or Wentz cos after these two the drop-off is actually quite substantial. Whereas as you may agree the talents on the defensive side of the ball is actually much deeper whereby the 9ers can easily still pick up great prospects after the 1st round.

My take is that we are not going to turn this ship around in 1 year. For this year, I want the best shot at an All Pro player, and it sounds like we may agree that is not Goff or Wentz. They are certainly the best of this crop and there is a drop-off after them. Of course neither of us have a crystal ball but it sounds as though most experts agree that these two are not surefire. OTOH, the top 10 defenders all look like studs.

Yes, there may be some good defensive talent down in round two but nothing like Buckner and Friends in the top end of round one. Just being the best in an average group of QBs does not justify passing on one of those guys if they are on the board at #7.

So, we may have to agree to disagree but that is the way I see it.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm okay with taking Goff at 7, but no effing way he's worth trading away picks for. Some of you guys are far too invested in the guy. I like the kid, but we need help in other places too badly to waste extra picks to get him.

If it means trading with the Chargers and only giving up a 2nd round pick this year and a 3rd next year and throwing in maybe Tramane Brock hell yes I would do it!!!

What do you mean ONLY a 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year and one of our top 2 CBs?!?! That's a terrible trade for a talent deprived team. Holy crap.

To move up for a franchise QB, absolutely not, considering what Atlanta and Washington moved up to get Julio Jones and RG3. The problem with your thinking is that you don't value Jared Goff as much and rather ride or die with Kaepernick. That's a very small trade or equal if you go by the draft value chart.

SD 3rd pick = 2,200 points

49ers 7th pick = 1,500 points

49ers 2nd round pick = 510 points

49ers 2017 3rd round pick = 100 points

You were saying??

I'm saying no prospect, including QBs, is worth a trade up. It doesn't matter what the trade chart says. Going 60 selections in the top end of the draft without a pick would be absolutely brutal for this franchise. We need help everywhere. And none of these QB prospects are elite. Stay at #7 and take BPA.

Again, you do not value a franchise QB like most do, you would rather stick with Kap (judging by your post in the Kaepernick). It's not every day or even every draft that you'll get to pick up your franchise QB, and for those who think next years QB class is better need to take a harder look.

And judging from Trent Baalke's previous 2nd round picks, I'd say giving up a 2nd is a no-brainer.

the Franchise label is being used prematurely

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Rascal:
No, that is ONLY your view. But, I think plenty of people do see both him and Wentz as legit franchise QBs, but any QB prospects after that is another matter.

I am not talking about which round Joe Montana was drafted. My point being is all things being equal, legit franchise QB vs legit pass rusher, the QB will have the upper hand everytime.

That did not prove to be he case in the Super Bowl this year. Miller dominated Manning.

It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you have to outscore your opponent in order to win. Yes, if your team has a stout D it will help somewhat if they can keep the other team's scoring to a minimum. But, not unless your D can consistently score on behalf of the O then you will need a damn good QB to win especially when faced with a a top D. I could even argue for example Cam Newton just wasn't good enough, may be if it was Joe Montana may be the outcome could have been different?

I stand corrected in the sense that a LEGIT franchise QB will have an advantage over most defenses. However, even that is not always the case. I recall the NYG defense led by LT that handled Montana and Rice in the NFCC game. 49-3, IIRC.

All that is beside my main question, which is, once again: Is Goff that kind of surefire franchise QB on the same level that Buckner and Bosa are rated by most as surefire game-changers on defense?

My answer is that he may be very good, even the best IN THIS YEAR'S GROUP, but I don't believe this group is all that good. I do believe this year's group of defenders, especially the top 10-15 are exceptional. I recently viewed Charles Davis noting this group of front line defenders is the best and deepest he has seen in several years.

I just want the best value for the team and I don't think Goff is worth passing on one of those truly outstanding defenders.

I look at it completely differently. While I agree the QB class this year is probably not as good as years past, to me that makes it even more critical to take the cream of the crop and in this draft it is either Goff or Wentz cos after these two the drop-off is actually quite substantial. Whereas as you may agree the talents on the defensive side of the ball is actually much deeper whereby the 9ers can easily still pick up great prospects after the 1st round.

My take is that we are not going to turn this ship around in 1 year. For this year, I want the best shot at an All Pro player, and it sounds like we may agree that is not Goff or Wentz. They are certainly the best of this crop and there is a drop-off after them. Of course neither of us have a crystal ball but it sounds as though most experts agree that these two are not surefire. OTOH, the top 10 defenders all look like studs.

Yes, there may be some good defensive talent down in round two but nothing like Buckner and Friends in the top end of round one. Just being the best in an average group of QBs does not justify passing on one of those guys if they are on the board at #7.

So, we may have to agree to disagree but that is the way I see it.

Man, we're agreeing a lot lately. The one thing we SHOULD do this year IS draft a QB, just not one that will also force us to pass up on a surefire defensive talent. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if we draft the Oregon QB later in the draft.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by okdkid:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm okay with taking Goff at 7, but no effing way he's worth trading away picks for. Some of you guys are far too invested in the guy. I like the kid, but we need help in other places too badly to waste extra picks to get him.

If it means trading with the Chargers and only giving up a 2nd round pick this year and a 3rd next year and throwing in maybe Tramane Brock hell yes I would do it!!!

What do you mean ONLY a 2nd round pick and a 3rd next year and one of our top 2 CBs?!?! That's a terrible trade for a talent deprived team. Holy crap.

To move up for a franchise QB, absolutely not, considering what Atlanta and Washington moved up to get Julio Jones and RG3. The problem with your thinking is that you don't value Jared Goff as much and rather ride or die with Kaepernick. That's a very small trade or equal if you go by the draft value chart.

SD 3rd pick = 2,200 points

49ers 7th pick = 1,500 points

49ers 2nd round pick = 510 points

49ers 2017 3rd round pick = 100 points

You were saying??

I'm saying no prospect, including QBs, is worth a trade up. It doesn't matter what the trade chart says. Going 60 selections in the top end of the draft without a pick would be absolutely brutal for this franchise. We need help everywhere. And none of these QB prospects are elite. Stay at #7 and take BPA.

Again, you do not value a franchise QB like most do, you would rather stick with Kap (judging by your post in the Kaepernick). It's not every day or even every draft that you'll get to pick up your franchise QB, and for those who think next years QB class is better need to take a harder look.

And judging from Trent Baalke's previous 2nd round picks, I'd say giving up a 2nd is a no-brainer.

the Franchise label is being used prematurely

Or your meaning might be incorrect.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Man, we're agreeing a lot lately. The one thing we SHOULD do this year IS draft a QB, just not one that will also force us to pass up on a surefire defensive talent. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if we draft the Oregon QB later in the draft.

If we can't get on of the top 4 QBs ( Wentz, Goff, Lynch, Dak are my top 4) then I don't want to waste a pick on someone like Adams

My draft day nightmare is pretty simple. The Browns take Wentz 2nd overall. Jerry Jones said 2 days ago the Cowboys aren't taking a QB. They pass on Goff. No one trades up to get him because the teams selecting ahead of the Niners can't pass up the defensive talent at the top of this draft.

And so here it is. Goff is on the board and the Niners are on the clock. A local kid sitting right in their back yard. A life long 49er fan. Has all the tools...great feet, great arm, quick release, and the brains to make the right decision. Flashback to 2005 where the same situation occurred. He was there. A life long 49er fan. He was sitting right in front of their face and the 49ers brass balked.

I'm not saying Goff is the next A-rod, or will be anything close. But my ultimate fear come draft day is we balk again. And he does become the next A-rod and history repeats itself. Flash forward 4 years from now and we all say once again, "He was there, sitting right in front of us."