49ers Draft Grade

Sure is quiet in here...

Originally posted by NCommand:
Alright, for all those who are unhappy with this draft, please 1) highlight the player(s) you wanted instead 2) at the position of needs you wanted and 3) ID all these "holes" on the roster and how these rookies would win a starting position over the current personnel.

Keep in mind that we're a running-centric team, focused on dominating play along the front 7, are focused on being very strong up the middle and like to win the TO battle, field position and TOP. That is our winning formula.

Current Offensive Personnel:
QB: Colin Kaepernick; Blaine Gabbert & Dylan Thompson/Blake Bell
RB1: Carlos Hyde; Kendall Gaskins & Mike Davis
RB2: Reggie Bush; Kendall Hunter & Jarryd Hayne
H-Back: Derek Carrier
TE: Vernon Davis; Vance McDonald, Garrett Celek, Asante Cleveland, Xavier Grimble & Blake Bell
FB: Bruce Miller; Trey Millard
X: Anquan Boldin; DeAndre Smelter, Rory 'Busta' Anderson & Issac Blakeney
Y (SLOT): Bruce Ellington; Chuck Jacobs, Darius Davis & DeAndrew White
Z: Torrey Smith; Quinton Patton, Jerome Simpson & Dres Anderson
LOT: Joe Staley; Erik Pears & Patrick Miller
ROT: Anthony Davis; Chris Martin & Ian Silberman
LG: Brandon Thomas/Marcus Martin; Andrew Tiller & Trenton Brown
RG: Alex Boone; Joe Looney
C: Daniel Kilgore/Marcus Martin; Dillon Farrell

Current Defensive Personnel:
RDE: Tank Carradine/Darnell Dockett; Kaleb Ramsey & Lawrence Okoye
LDE: Quinton Dial/Arik Armstead; Tony Jerrod-Eddie
NT: Glenn Dorsey/Ian Williams; Mike Purcell & Garrison Smith
WILL: Aldon Smith/Eli Harold; Corey Lemonier
SAM: Ahmad Brooks/Aaron Lynch
TED: Michael Wilhoite; Philip Wheeler, Desmond Bishop & Shayne Skov
MIKE: Navarro Bowman; Nick Moody, Nick Bellore & Marcus Rush
RCB: Dontae Johnson; Shareece Wright & Leon McFadden
LCB: Tramaine Brock; Chris Cook & Marcus Cromartie
SLOT: Jimmie Ward; Kenneth Acker & Keith Reaser
NICKLE/DIME (SS/ILB): Jaquiski Tartt
FS: Eric Reid; L.J. McCray
SS: Antoine Bethea; Craig Dahl

Current Special Teams:
LS: Kyle Nelson
PK: Phil Dawson; Bradley Pinion
P: Andy Lee; Bradley Pinion
PR/KOR: Bruce Ellington; Reggie Bush, Kendall Hunter & Jarryd Hayne

Overall I think they did well. I am a tad disappointed in the first pick because I wanted a surefire starter. My best guess is they rotate him in on passing downs. He could end up being great, i just wanted immediate impact.

I do have to wonder when guys like Mayock say the second pick is actually a good player, but someone they could have almost certainly gotten a round or even two later (same with the punter). Why not trade around and get him even ten picks later?

I love the WR pick up. He could be Boldin 2.0 once he is healed up. As for everyone clamoring for WR being an need - I want to see what Patton and Ellington can do. So I did not think WR was as vital unless they're drafting a day one starter... The two TE felt like a waste to me. CB isn't as huge a need as projected either. Everyone forgets the guys we drafted hurt last year. Keeping youth flowing into the defense is smart. The Safety can def help considering current players injury histories.

I certainly think we have plenty of talent to field a playoff caliber team (thats my goal every year, not SB or bust lol) I am far more pessimistic in this coaching staff getting the most of out of them!

I do think we have a lot more depth than most realize. But it also comes down to some of the picks from the last two years giving us some ROI.

Would love to see Tank come on and make an impact, Brandon Thomas and Marcus Martin are legit talents who could be starters. We have Dockett and Dorsey and Dial showed flashes at NT last year so NT/DT wasn't a huge need. Harold was a great value pick and maybe pushes Lemonier.

I'm fine with our corners Johnson, Brock and Ward as a nickel but also hope to see Reaser and Acker in action.

We have Boldin and Smith, but also Ellington and Patton. Smelter was a great pick where he was taken.

So it's not about who we took this year but about seeing ROI on the guys from the last 2-3 years who were drafted injured or stuck behind starters. They need to step up to take some heat off Baalke.

Reid is an injury concern IMO, Bethea is solid, Dahl sucks. So we need a S and I like what I've read about Tartt. He could be a Whitner/Goldson type. But will he play and could he have been had later?

Biggest hole/need IMO was ILB where we could've used a potential starter and it wasn't addressed.

Just to mention, this trade down business amuses me. Didn't we learn a lesson with Rashaun Woods? It's dead easy to say, could have traded down, could have got him a round later. But firstly you need a trading partner. And secondly, if that is the player you want, do you really want to take the risk that another GM has the player a little higher on his board that you expected?

Originally posted by English:
Just to mention, this trade down business amuses me. Didn't we learn a lesson with Rashaun Woods? It's dead easy to say, could have traded down, could have got him a round later. But firstly you need a trading partner. And secondly, if that is the player you want, do you really want to take the risk that another GM has the player a little higher on his board that you expected?

This. Trading down only works when you have more equally rated players than you have spots you are trading down, or you have no players you are especially interested in where you are sitting. With 31 other teams picking, it's too much of a risk to assume that no one else likes your guy. I liked the reasoning Trent chose to share (Trent shared strategy????), that they let Houston in front of them in the 1st ONLY because they knew AA didn't fit the Texans' defensive scheme.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Sure is quiet in here...

Hangovers are like that...

Originally posted by NCommand:
Sure is quiet in here...

You basically posted the exact same roster we had last year that went 8-8 with downgrades at RB, LG, WR(IMO), FB(if Bruce is suspended), and DE. The only immediate upgrades I see are players coming back off injury, and one added free agent. I see the same roster as last season, with the addition of a lot of unknown prospects.

QB- same
RBs- downgrade and unknown
WR's- Last year we had 4 1000 yard receivers, now we have 2 with no true answer at #3 yet. Not saying Patton or Ellington aren't, but what have they done?
TE- Added depth, must not be too keen on Vance though. So if that's the case they missed out on this pick, so that proves some picks based being a prospect will fail. So now backup TE is up in the air again.
FB- As I said what happens to Bruce?

Oline was our weakest link last year IMO. What's going to magically happen?

LT-same
LG- It's hard to replace probowl talent no matter what you think of Iupati.
C- Same, no depth for injuries though
RG- same hopefully Boone will get his head out.
RT- Same

KR/PR- Ellington reminds me of Kyle Williams so same and feel we needed an upgrade
P- I have no clue what our intentions are but if we get rid of Lee, it's an immediate downgrade. As for later on possibly equal or upgrade.


I could go on about defense, but it's the same thing. "Wow we added depth" but where have we really improved in the immediate future? I'm not here crying about it, saying it's an awful draft. I'm only saying I don't really get what we are doing here. I'm no GM, but even our GM admits we are full of prospects. Me personally I don't think we needed a whole lot, it's a plus that we added a lot of good depth, but we did need some immediate impact upgrades and I don't see it in "prospects". This division is too good and is only getting stronger.

C for know and understanding this can go either way.

If all of the reaches (and let's be honest that's a lot of the picks maximize their potential) this is an A draft. If the main guys do its a B. If we only get a couple low levels guys come through it stays a C. If everyone bombs it's an F.

Let's be honest, what's written above can be said about every team from this weekend, frankly no one knows yet. That said the initial feel from this draft is pessimistic, especially after how the rest of this off season has gone. This could be 2011 all over again where everyone bashed the draft but it was home runs left and right in the end. This could also be 2012 where all the picks looked like reaches and all were in fact.

You have to wonder what will happen if Tomsula is over matched and his coordinators don't look good this the team falters (say 5-11 or 6-10) and this draft ends up like 2012. You honestly might have some SERIOUS house cleaning afterwards!

I'll give this Draft a B, while everyone is looking at the NOW.. Trent is obviously looking at depth and future. Sure there's that "sexy pick" but does that player fit the scheme that the team plays? At least IMO I think Baalke just filled the holes that's going to be a need next year or the year after that. This draft can go either way, it just depends on how good the coaching staff can develop the young players. Let's not forget that players will be cut prior to the start of the season, there's still time to find an ILB and CB. I'll reserve my judgment 2 years from now, but for now I like the players they chose.. a lot of potentials.

Originally posted by WildBill:
and I don't see how you can grade something before they have had a chance to play, all people who do this for a living say you can't grade until at least three years later, although I will admit some are more obvious and you can like LMJ and Jenkins.

uhhh, the point of this thread was to grade the draft...

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Overall I think they did well. I am a tad disappointed in the first pick because I wanted a surefire starter. My best guess is they rotate him in on passing downs. He could end up being great, i just wanted immediate impact.

I do have to wonder when guys like Mayock say the second pick is actually a good player, but someone they could have almost certainly gotten a round or even two later (same with the punter). Why not trade around and get him even ten picks later?

I love the WR pick up. He could be Boldin 2.0 once he is healed up. As for everyone clamoring for WR being an need - I want to see what Patton and Ellington can do. So I did not think WR was as vital unless they're drafting a day one starter... The two TE felt like a waste to me. CB isn't as huge a need as projected either. Everyone forgets the guys we drafted hurt last year. Keeping youth flowing into the defense is smart. The Safety can def help considering current players injury histories.

I certainly think we have plenty of talent to field a playoff caliber team (thats my goal every year, not SB or bust lol) I am far more pessimistic in this coaching staff getting the most of out of them!

A couple of things:

Armstead is very strong against the run so it might be better to start him in the base and sub a pass rusher for him on obvious passing downs until he develops more consistency...but if Justin is back then he and Dockett are the logical starters, with Dial and Carradine as backups...perhaps Carradine starts.

It seems easy to move up and back a few places to maximize your picks but in reality you need a trade partner and if you really like a guy in the late 4th, why take a chance that you will lose him by dropping ten spaces? Of the niners picks,

1st--Armstead went where most thought he would go, while some had him going higher, some lower.

2nd--Tartt went a bit higher than the average mock but he was perhaps the best safety in the draft and the niners really needed to solidify SS after Ward and Reid appear more suited for FS. One critic downgraded the draft because they picked safeties high in each of the last three drafts, but I believe Baalke likes picking lower cost positions high to maximize value down the road. A first or second round CB might price themselves off the team after the rookie contract. Plus, they really needed to strengthen the middle but no ILB thrilled them at 45.

3rd--Harold dropped quite a bit and was just too good to pass even though there may have been some lesser talented ILBs or CBs available. Why take a position player who doesn't have much of a chance to earn a spot? If they aren't better than Wilhoite, Moody or Wheeler...no need to take them.

4th--Davis, Smelter and Bell were all good value where they were taken. Some dropped Smelter down due to injury but the guy is really athletic and intelligent and hard working and...did I mention athletic? LOL! Can you tell I like the guy? Bell is likely to be the #3 TE or #2 if McDonald doesn't have a good camp. Davis wasn't my favorite RB but he is a lot like Gore in that he's a hit the hole fast type back.

Anthing after 4th is really a crapshoot, so you have to look at them as camp fodder or developmental guys.

5th--Pinnion may have been a bone to the ST coach. Baalke has done that in the past by keeping guys like Costanzo even though they had no chance at being used on defense or offense. Odd pick but Lee may be human one of these days...

6th--Silberman is an odd pick in that he doesn't seem suited for zone blocking...slow feet is usually the kiss of death for linemen. But he stays balanced so...

7th--A mountain and a gazelle...hope Anderson makes it as he is very athletic for a TE and may be a tweener TE/HB/WR. Brown is...BIG! Played in the jumbo package at Florida...he was the jumbo package!

So I really think those saying the niners reached for their picks are really misinformed and/or looking for reasons to criticize. An awful lot of people have written the 9ers off for hiring Tomsula as HC and they may be in for a surprise.

PS--my first two picks would have been WR Strong and DT Davis but I can live with Baalke's picks.

All I'm saying is that he's getting with this ACL redshirt business. There are glaring holes that need to be filled ASAP. Not one person he drafted will contribute much of any this year. So call me a "clueless noob", and I'm sure many of you will lol, but tell me, how has this draft helped to catch up with the Seahawks? Simple question.

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Sure is quiet in here...

You basically posted the exact same roster we had last year that went 8-8 with downgrades at RB, LG, WR(IMO), FB(if Bruce is suspended), and DE. The only immediate upgrades I see are players coming back off injury, and one added free agent. I see the same roster as last season, with the addition of a lot of unknown prospects.

QB- same
RBs- downgrade and unknown
WR's- Last year we had 4 1000 yard receivers, now we have 2 with no true answer at #3 yet. Not saying Patton or Ellington aren't, but what have they done?
TE- Added depth, must not be too keen on Vance though. So if that's the case they missed out on this pick, so that proves some picks based being a prospect will fail. So now backup TE is up in the air again.
FB- As I said what happens to Bruce?

Oline was our weakest link last year IMO. What's going to magically happen?

LT-same
LG- It's hard to replace probowl talent no matter what you think of Iupati.
C- Same, no depth for injuries though
RG- same hopefully Boone will get his head out.
RT- Same

KR/PR- Ellington reminds me of Kyle Williams so same and feel we needed an upgrade
P- I have no clue what our intentions are but if we get rid of Lee, it's an immediate downgrade. As for later on possibly equal or upgrade.


I could go on about defense, but it's the same thing. "Wow we added depth" but where have we really improved in the immediate future? I'm not here crying about it, saying it's an awful draft. I'm only saying I don't really get what we are doing here. I'm no GM, but even our GM admits we are full of prospects. Me personally I don't think we needed a whole lot, but we did need some immediate impact upgrades and I don't see it in "prospects".

It's largely the same roster, but do you remember how good we felt about that roster before all of the injuries? Defensively, we get Dorsey, Williams, and Bowman back form injury, with Aldon returning from that 9 game sham. That's all significant. I like our CBs a lot. That might sound crazy to many, but I think Wright fits what we do beter than what SD does, and I want Johnson to beat him for that spot anyway. Acker and Reaser can both be very good (Acker already impressed in the preseason last year, and Reaser was impressive in college (basically a rookie who had the benefit of NFL nutrition/strength training programs for a year).

Offensively, Davis is healthy and Thomas is a MUCH better pass blocker than Iupati. Pass blocking was the weakest link in the ofense, and Iupati was the poorest performer there. Even Iupati's run blocking dominance was negated by our tendency to run behind him so frequently that opposing LBs and safeties ALWAYS keyed on him and simply followed him to the ball. We don't have 4 1000 yard receivers anymore (who actually belived they'd each get 1000 yards in our offense?), but we have a speed threat to open up the underneath routes (and deliver big plays down the field), and we gained two-three tall athletes who can get vertical in the RZ (Simpson, Bell, Anderson). We already had the quick, agile guys with impressive lateral movement (Patton and Ellington) who give the Seahawks fits in underneat routes and the RZ, we just never used them. Hyde was successful against the Seahawks in seattle, before they ttok him out , and they NEVER cover our RBs out if the backfield, so we should force them to stretch their coverage more this season, exposing more and larger windows.

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:

You basically posted the exact same roster we had last year that went 8-8 with downgrades at RB, LG, WR(IMO), FB(if Bruce is suspended), and DE. The only immediate upgrades I see are players coming back off injury, and one added free agent. I see the same roster as last season, with the addition of a lot of unknown prospects.

QB- same
RBs- downgrade and unknown
WR's- Last year we had 4 1000 yard receivers, now we have 2 with no true answer at #3 yet. Not saying Patton or Ellington aren't, but what have they done?
TE- Added depth, must not be too keen on Vance though. So if that's the case they missed out on this pick, so that proves some picks based being a prospect will fail. So now backup TE is up in the air again.
FB- As I said what happens to Bruce?

Oline was our weakest link last year IMO. What's going to magically happen?

LT-same
LG- It's hard to replace probowl talent no matter what you think of Iupati.
C- Same, no depth for injuries though
RG- same hopefully Boone will get his head out.
RT- Same

KR/PR- Ellington reminds me of Kyle Williams so same and feel we needed an upgrade
P- I have no clue what our intentions are but if we get rid of Lee, it's an immediate downgrade. As for later on possibly equal or upgrade.


I could go on about defense, but it's the same thing. "Wow we added depth" but where have we really improved in the immediate future? I'm not here crying about it, saying it's an awful draft. I'm only saying I don't really get what we are doing here. I'm no GM, but even our GM admits we are full of prospects. Me personally I don't think we needed a whole lot, it's a plus that we added a lot of good depth, but we did need some immediate impact upgrades and I don't see it in "prospects". This division is too good and is only getting stronger.

1) the issue with your perspective is that you assume that none of our young players takes a step forward as players, we have a ton uber talented players who didn't get any playing time due to older players on the roster.

2) wide receiver may not be as deep but it's better. We had four possession receivers who didn't compliment eachother. Now we have two receiver's whose skill set matches eachother.

3) two starters were injured on our oline. So we are getting Anthony Davis, and Kilgore back! We have talented players competing for the lg spot.

4) we are getting two of our best linebackers back. Bo' and Aldon plus adding Harold as another passrusher is a net upgrade from last year.

5) Vernon is playing for a contract., I expect him to have atleast a decent season! There is tons of talent competing for the back up spot.

6) Hyde's development should have everyone excited! Mike Davis was a great pick in my opinion as well.

At the end of the day you can be negative and pessimistic but our roster is getting healthy and flying under the radar again. I like the amount experience our coaching staff has, and while I didn't like the first pick of the draft I like the rest of the picks.

I'm OK with our OLine. Don't like losing Iupati but we have Martin and Thomas. Boone...who knows but if he's at least in camp and ready to start week 1, we'll be ok. Boone holding out, a ton of injuries and our change in style hurt the OLine. We'll be fine there IMO.