MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis for 2012 NFL Draft

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Why am I to believe JH should have thrived under Baalke when no other coach has. Not a single one.

Facts.

Lol again it's not Baalke vs Jim...The talent on the roster regardless of who or where it came from was at the very least top 10 in the NFL for most of Harbs time here...they had 8 pro-bowlers in 2012 and 9 pro-bowlers in 2013.

And they all played. He needed to help and he didn't. He did not help any of his coaches. You can't sit around and do nothing all day and live off of Scott. You cannot do that. Then say it's the coaches fault because my mentor left a core of players for me so I'm going to go acl full retard.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

They had the talent in 12 and to a lesser extent 11, 13 but fell short. In a league where the Patriots have been to the SB 8 times with every game being decided on the final drive it happens. We lost to Blt when we should of won just like Shanny lost to NE when he should of won. Or Carroll lost to them when they should of won.

Since when do you have to lead the league in passing to win though? I didn't know that was a requirement.

There's no denying the talent especially on o went south as JH's regime went along. Baalke also had the control and we know they were heavily beefing. As to who wanted what and where things went wrong I don't know but it's more than fair to call Baalke out for destroying a potentially good offense. The buck stopped with him.

SF had 8 pro bowlers in 2012 and 9 in 2013...they had talent regardless of who drafted them.

You're completely missing my pt about the passing game. Everyone is saying we didn't have the proper WRs for Jim blah blah blah...his game wasn't about throwing the ball 40+ times. Never has and still isn't. There was more than enough all around talent to win at the very least a SB, he got out coaching vs his brother.

Baalke without question drafted like trash, not one person is denying that...it affected the team more down the road then while Jim was here

My issue is everyone is propping up Jim to the pt where he was the victim in all of the wrong doings, which simply isn't true. Dude had his flaws and some of those help lead him out of town and lose games we should have won. It's not all him it's not all Baalke it's BOTH

Originally posted by NYniner85:

SF had 8 pro bowlers in 2012 and 9 in 2013...they had talent regardless of who drafted them.

You're completely missing my pt about the passing game. Everyone is saying we didn't have the proper WRs for Jim blah blah blah...his game wasn't about throwing the ball 40+ times. Never has and still isn't. There was more than enough all around talent to win at the very least a SB, he got out coaching vs his brother.

Baalke without question drafted like trash, not one person is denying that...it affected the team more down the road then while Jim was here

My issue is everyone is propping up Jim to the put where he was the victim in all of the wrong doings, which simply isn't true. Dude had his flaws and some of those help lead him out of town and lose games we should have won. It's not all him it's not all Baalke it's BOTH

There was a power struggle NY, what do you think Harbaugh Baalke were bickering about then? Knowing now and then, if his 0 impact player in 5 drafts don't convince you?

Who was he helping Seattle?

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

And they all played. He needed to help and he didn't. He did not help any of his coaches. You can't sit around and do nothing all day and live off of Scott. You cannot do that. Then say it's the coaches fault because my mentor left a core of players for me so I'm going to go acl full retard.

Baalke had a fine 2011 draft and outside of that I agree the rest was s**t, Scott has some of the worst drafts when he was the actual GM (2008-2009) but he gets all the praise for the good and none of the bad?

Again you're still not manning up and saying Jim cost us wins because of his stubbornness, unwillingness to fire people who should have been, didn't make in game adjustments, didn't develop Kap, and couldn't get along with management.

I've stated over and over Baalke f**ked up and he needed to be fired not Jim. Stop pretending like Jim was a saint in all of this and wasn't part of his own destruction in SF because he most certainly was.

Sam Dodge: "There are a lot of parallels between Harbaugh's fourth season at Stanford and the upcoming Michigan one.

The most obvious? Both teams finished 8-5 the year before. In addition, the team's success depended mostly on one side of the ball. For Stanford in 2010, their No. 3 offense in S&P elevated the No. 83 defense. Michigan's No. 10 defense carried the stagnant No. 85 offense in 2017."

While 8-5 looked superficially like vast improvement for the Cardinal, Harbaugh harbored deep frustration heading into his fourth year. He shifted his coaching staff around, seeing five assistants leave, and at least three involuntarily.

He added NFL veteran assistants in Vic Fangio and current Vanderbilt head coach Derek Mason to boost the 2011 defense to No. 23 nationally. Going into 2018, he replaced Tim Drevno and Greg Frey with Ed Warinner, and shifted the responsibilities to add former Florida head coach Jim McElwain, Sherrone Moore and Al Washington."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.maizenbrew.com/platform/amp/football/2018/7/17/17574412/5-reasons-michigan-will-make-the-college-football-playoff-in-2018



Because history is showing Harbaugh is a lot more open to change than people assume in both year 4 and the GM had zero success but with Harbaugh and he couldn't sustain the talent. Clearly Baalke had different ideas like the next "Steve Kerr".

Originally posted by NYniner85:

SF had 8 pro bowlers in 2012 and 9 in 2013...they had talent regardless of who drafted them.

You're completely missing my pt about the passing game. Everyone is saying we didn't have the proper WRs for Jim blah blah blah...his game wasn't about throwing the ball 40+ times. Never has and still isn't. There was more than enough all around talent to win at the very least a SB, he got out coaching vs his brother.

Baalke without question drafted like trash, not one person is denying that...it affected the team more down the road then while Jim was here

My issue is everyone is propping up Jim to the put where he was the victim in all of the wrong doings, which simply isn't true. Dude had his flaws and some of those help lead him out of town and lose games we should have won. It's not all him it's not all Baalke it's BOTH

Well I've never said we didn't have the talent to win a SB. We did just fell short. In 12 that team could do everything just didn't vs not spectacular Blt team. I think John knew that and came out a lot more aggressive than Jim anticipated.

But my point is Baalke did screw up a very promising offense. This is a team that could of continued to make strides instead it fell flat and when the d fell apart overnight it was over.

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

There was a power struggle NY, what do you think Harbaugh Baalke were bickering about then? Knowing now and then, if his 0 impact player in 5 drafts don't convince you?

Who was he helping Seattle?

I don't care about his zero impact players when Jim STILL had a loaded roster for 90% of his time is SF.

That roster was stacked with vets ready to roll...here's a good article explaining the friction between the two.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2014/02/25/how-did-the-jim-harbaugh-trent-baalke-breach-open-up-lets-go-back-through-it-owen-marecic-a-j-jenkins-aldon-smith/

There's stuff that both men f**ked up. Not just one.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Would they blame him if he then put a stick a dynamite in the team and ran Carroll out because he's too soft to handle a loss?

Not for the SB loss. Pete is left holding that one for all time.

Perhaps Schneider gets blamed if they start to fade now that they have blown all these drafts. Rightfully so.

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Sam Dodge: "There are a lot of parallels between Harbaugh's fourth season at Stanford and the upcoming Michigan one.

The most obvious? Both teams finished 8-5 the year before. In addition, the team's success depended mostly on one side of the ball. For Stanford in 2010, their No. 3 offense in S&P elevated the No. 83 defense. Michigan's No. 10 defense carried the stagnant No. 85 offense in 2017."

While 8-5 looked superficially like vast improvement for the Cardinal, Harbaugh harbored deep frustration heading into his fourth year. He shifted his coaching staff around, seeing five assistants leave, and at least three involuntarily.

He added NFL veteran assistants in Vic Fangio and current Vanderbilt head coach Derek Mason to boost the 2011 defense to No. 23 nationally. Going into 2018, he replaced Tim Drevno and Greg Frey with Ed Warinner, and shifted the responsibilities to add former Florida head coach Jim McElwain, Sherrone Moore and Al Washington."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.maizenbrew.com/platform/amp/football/2018/7/17/17574412/5-reasons-michigan-will-make-the-college-football-playoff-in-2018



Because history is showing Harbaugh is a lot more open to change than people assume in both year 4 and the GM had zero success but with Harbaugh and he couldn't sustain the talent. Clearly Baalke had different ideas like the next "Steve Kerr".

Where the f**k was that when the offense wasn't doing s**t? Roman needed to go and Harbs didn't make the move.

His football Philosophy has and will always be the same...until I see it differently I'm not gonna believe it.
History also shows 17 pro bowl selections in two yrs lol. Talent wasn't a massive issue until SF lost 12 starters after the 2014 season.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Well I've never said we didn't have the talent to win a SB. We did just fell short. In 12 that team could do everything just didn't vs not spectacular Blt team. I think John knew that and came out a lot more aggressive than Jim anticipated.

But my point is Baalke did screw up a very promising offense. This is a team that could of continued to make strides instead it fell flat and when the d fell apart overnight it was over.

Baalke screwed up a team that lost 12 starters after the 2014 season...there was zero talent to replenish that kind of loss. While Jim was here there was a good amount of talented vets ready to roll.

That promising offense wasn't going anywhere unless Kap developed into a all around passer and he never did.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Where the f**k was that when the offense wasn't doing s**t? Roman needed to go and Harbs didn't make the move.

His football Philosophy has and will always be the same...until I see it differently I'm not gonna believe it.
History also shows 17 pro bowl selections in two yrs lol. Talent wasn't a massive issue until SF lost 12 starters after the 2014 season.

3 straight title games and 44-19-1. He did pretty good considering the 6-10 2010 season. So you are saying Jim Harbaugh is to blame for not winning a Super Bowl when his GM was drafting for the future and we were ready to win now????

I believe he has the most wins in his first 3 years of his nfl tenure, nfl history.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Would they blame him if he then put a stick a dynamite in the team and ran Carroll out because he's too soft to handle a loss?

Not for the SB loss. Pete is left holding that one for all time.

Perhaps Schneider gets blamed if they start to fade now that they have blown all these drafts. Rightfully so.

That was another pt I made...outside of two amazing drafts for Seattle they've mainly drafted like s**t for yrs. those two drafts helped them get to multiple NFC championships and SBs. Now they're losing those guys and have no stars in the making. It's was the same thing in SF just with older vets (no development necessary) Jim was able to come out of the gates swinging. It was very poor drafting, lack of development, poor coaching adjustments (including OC changes), and friction that lead to some good seasons but not winning the big one...it also lead to the s**t show we've been dealing with for a couple yrs.

Is what it is...I like where we're heading now

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Baalke screwed up a team that lost 12 starters after the 2014 season...there was zero talent to replenish that kind of loss. While Jim was here there was a good amount of talented vets ready to roll.

That promising offense wasn't going anywhere unless Kap developed into a all around passer and he never did.

Hard to develop when you're playing on poorly put together team. If Kap was playing with 12's squad I'd be willing to bet he'd have a much better career.

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

3 straight title games and 44-19-1. He did pretty good considering the 6-10 2010 season. So you are saying Jim Harbaugh is to blame for not winning a Super Bowl when his GM was drafting for the future and we were ready to win now????

That wasn't a 6-10 roster imo...Singletary and jimmy Raye got six wins think about that lol.

I'm saying that roster was top end even without drafting. No rookie was gonna come in an beat out most of the starters on those teams. I'm saying Jim got out coached by his brother in the SB. You keep saying we lacked talent yet we had 17 pro bowl sections over a two yr span lol.

I'm not taking anything away from him haven't been..,dude can coach but he most certainly wasn't prefect and doesn't get a pass for some the s**t he did, for whatever reason you seemly can't admit that. You keep acting like he didn't do anything wrong and didn't play a single part in the reason they didn't win that SB or lost to Seattle in the NFC championship.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

That wasn't a 6-10 roster imo...Singletary and jimmy Raye got six wins think about that lol.

I'm saying that roster was top end even without drafting. No rookie was gonna come in an beat out most of the starters on those teams. I'm saying Jim got out coached by his brother in the SB. You keep saying we lacked talent yet we had 17 pro bowl sections over a two yr span lol.

I'm not taking anything away from him haven't been..,dude can coach but he most certainly wasn't prefect and doesn't get a pass for some the s**t he did, for whatever reason you seemly can't admit that. You keep acting like he didn't do anything wrong and didn't play a single part in the reason they didn't win that SB or lost to Seattle in the NFC championship.

Nah,

I just think he got best out of them under the awkward circumstances that unfortunately played out? There was no more juice to squeeze out of those lemons. The time came to add some youth, replenish and we failed. Imho