Do we fix the oline in the draft or free agency

We are terrible at drafting OLinemen..Hopefully we sign some Legit O linemen

It's a fair question and a keen observation on your part. The only free agent guard pickup we have on our main roster is Wragge, but he's been here since the first or second year of Nolan. Baas, Rachal, Snyder (OT/OG), Heitmann (OC/OG), and Wallace (OC/OG) have all been drafted by the 49ers.

I think we'll seek out a legit OG in free agency instead of the draft is that we can't afford more rookie mistakes and development within the interior of the line. Including the fact that we'll be drafting a starting RT, and you add serious INEXPERIENCE along the offensive line.

There needs to be some form of balance in my opinion. Should the CBA not get renewed, I think it would be greatly beneficial for us to sign Neal from New England, put him on the left side, and let Baas and Rachal compete for the RG spot. Then, we can snag Okung, Williams, or another highly rated tackle to iron out the rest of the offensive line.

LT: Staley/Sims
LG: Neal/(Baas)
OC: Heitmann/Wragge
RG: Baas/Rachal
RT: Williams/Snyder/Boone

Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
So, I see a lot of mocks and predictions that we'll let Baas walk and sign Mankins or Neal in the offseason. Don't get me wrong, I wanted Mankins in 2004 Draft, but I have a feeling we may draft guard instead of picking up one in FA.

This is mainly because of McCoughlan's past history with Guards. First, he was part of the group that let Hutchinson leave Seattle (and they haven't had a running game since). Second, he let Smiley go (and he has been lights out in a Top-10 rushing offense in Miami) b/c he thought it was too much for a guard.

I hope he finally puts down some money on investing on the interior line, but wouldn't be surprised if he focuses on OG in the draft (i.e. Iupati from Idaho, Johnson from Alabama, etc) and signs Baas to a two year backup deal after no one else signs him.

Just wondering how you all think...

Scott became a Niner in 05, Hutchinson was part of that poison pill deal in 06. Get your facts straight before using them to characterize an individual.


Having said that....it is indeed fact that Scot doesn't like to spend money on guards from a cap and strategic standpoint. We should have never let Smiley get away. He was one of our best olinement when he left and we have had garbage play at the position ever since.

Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
So, I see a lot of mocks and predictions that we'll let Baas walk and sign Mankins or Neal in the offseason. Don't get me wrong, I wanted Mankins in 2004 Draft, but I have a feeling we may draft guard instead of picking up one in FA.

This is mainly because of McCoughlan's past history with Guards. First, he was part of the group that let Hutchinson leave Seattle (and they haven't had a running game since). Second, he let Smiley go (and he has been lights out in a Top-10 rushing offense in Miami) b/c he thought it was too much for a guard.

I hope he finally puts down some money on investing on the interior line, but wouldn't be surprised if he focuses on OG in the draft (i.e. Iupati from Idaho, Johnson from Alabama, etc) and signs Baas to a two year backup deal after no one else signs him.

Just wondering how you all think...

1. McCloughan was in SF when Seattle let Hutch walk.
2. Mankins was drafted in 05.
3. Smiley was recently benched in Miami.

Try again.

My running count: The o-line has only given up 2 sacks in the last 14 quarters.

Originally posted by GoFD74:

Originally posted by jojomellon:

Originally posted by GoFD74:

Originally posted by jojomellon:
Championship teams build their line through the draft> Bad, desperate teams build their line through overpaying guys who's best years are behind him in FA.

Not really. The Steelers probably had one first rounder on their o-line last year (and I'm not even sure about that), the Colts had one when they won it (Tarik Glenn), and he retired, leaving them no 1st rounders on this year's undefeated team.

The top rushing team in the NFL right now has two 1st rounders on their starting o-line (Ferguson and Mangold), but they also have two veteran free agent signees (Faneca and Woody). The best offense in the league right now (Saints) don't even have a 1st rounder on their line. The 3rd best offense in the NFL (Dallas) has two key free agent signings (Davis and Kosier...make it 3 if Colombo was healthy), and no 1st rounders that they've drafted on their starting o-line.

On the flip-side, the worse offense in the NFL (Browns) has two blue-chip 1st rounders on their starting o-line (Thomas and Mack), and they suck.

So teams find different ways to make their offensive line work well, and it doesn't always mean top picks (or just/only building through the draft).

Who was saying anything about rounds? You're making my case for me, the best teams have drafted their linemen, not signed old trash that other teams let go. The Browns' line is actually very good.

I'm not making your case for you. I'm saying, there are different ways to go about building a great offensive line, and simply drafting o-lineman isn't the only way (see examples above). That said, I brought up rounds because it shows that you also don't have to use high picks exclusively to build a solid o-line (I know you weren't saying that...I was).

My point is, teams have used the draft, or mostly free agency or a combination of the two to build solid o-lines throughout the years. So there's no "one" right way to do it. IMO, it's more about the scheme and the play of the QB than having a bunch of stud o-lineman...you can get away with having ok lineman, if your scheme leverages their skills and your QB knows how to read defenses quickly/properly.

Lastly, you say the Browns offensive line is actually very good. Given their offensive stats below, what is it about the Browns o-line that makes you say that they're "actually very good":

2009 Cleveland Browns offensive stats
Total First Downs - 171 - League rank: 31
First Downs Rushing - 59 - League rank: 23
First Downs Passing - 100 - League rank: 29
Third Downs Conversions - 54 - League rank: 25
Fourth Down Conversions - 7 - League rank: 11
Total Offensive Plays - 722 - League rank: 26
Total Offensive Yards - 2909 - League rank: 32
Avg Yards per Offensive Play - 4.03 - League rank: 32
Total Touchdowns - 13 - League rank: 30
Total Rushing Plays - 317 - League rank: 19
Total Rushing Yards - 1187 - League rank: 23
Avg Yards per Rushing Play - 3.7 - League rank: 31
Rushing Touchdowns - 3 - League rank: 31
Total Passing Plays - 378 - League rank: 25
Total Passing Yards - 1722 - League rank: 31
Avg Yards per Passing Play - 4.56 - League rank: 32
Passing Touchdowns - 10 - League rank: 28
Sacks Allowed - 27 - League rank: 13th worst

All of those stats are dependent on a running back and quarterback and wide receivers. Jamal Lewis could be running behind the Redskins' Hogs and would be still averaging 3.0 a pop. Open your eyes. Watch the game. Judge the play. Figures lie and liars figure.

^^ That's a lame response, so I'll ask you again since you chose not to answer my question: what is it about the Browns o-line that makes you say that they're "actually very good?"

I didn't say those stats where the fault of the o-line...I just said, given how bad the offense is, what exactly makes you say that their o-line is good. Since you watch them and apparently I don't, I'm sure you can give me some specific answers and examples of their "very good" play.

[ Edited by GoFD74 on Dec 15, 2009 at 00:50:37 ]

Last night versus Arizona was Baas' best game of the season. He looked great pulling and was the key to many of Gore's big plays, especially at the goal line for Gore's TD.

If Baas can finish the season like he played against the Cards, he might be resigned. That's a big IF though.

Chilo struggled a little against Dockett in the beginning, but he looked good later in the game. Considering how Dockett abused Chilo (and Snyder) in the first game, it was a tremendous improvement for him.

FRee agency!

2010 NFL Free Agent Offensive Linemen

Originally posted by jojomellon:

Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
So, I see a lot of mocks and predictions that we'll let Baas walk and sign Mankins or Neal in the offseason. Don't get me wrong, I wanted Mankins in 2004 Draft, but I have a feeling we may draft guard instead of picking up one in FA.

This is mainly because of McCoughlan's past history with Guards. First, he was part of the group that let Hutchinson leave Seattle (and they haven't had a running game since). Second, he let Smiley go (and he has been lights out in a Top-10 rushing offense in Miami) b/c he thought it was too much for a guard.

I hope he finally puts down some money on investing on the interior line, but wouldn't be surprised if he focuses on OG in the draft (i.e. Iupati from Idaho, Johnson from Alabama, etc) and signs Baas to a two year backup deal after no one else signs him.

Just wondering how you all think...

1. McCloughan was in SF when Seattle let Hutch walk.
2. Mankins was drafted in 05.
3. Smiley was recently benched in Miami.

Try again.

1. I was referring to his ideals similar to the group he worked with in Seattle, so my mistake for not being more clear.

2. He was drafted the same year as Smith, which was the end of the 2004 season, so my apologies for forgetting to make it 2005.

3. Smiley has had problems with injuries this season, but was still worth his contract and should've been us. Much rather have him than Baas right now.

So I've been reading and found out Lutui will be a FA this upcoming offseason. Anyone think there's anyway we can sign him?

is marcus mcneil still a dominant tackle ? we could possibly move him to the right side

Both

Originally posted by Crazy49er1313:
So I've been reading and found out Lutui will be a FA this upcoming offseason. Anyone think there's anyway we can sign him?

Depending on the CBA renewal, we could have a shot.