Let's Talk Defense!

Our defense plays "bend but don't break" or in other words "soft"

We try and take away big plays and make the other team march down the field slowly. If the offense has any miscues (penalty...incompletes etc) odds are the drive will stall. If the offense is efficient and takes the underneath stuff they succeed. If the offense has speedy playmakers that thrive on underneath stuff they eat us alive.

When we do blitz it is not very creative. Teams like the Jets/Steelers etc make great use of overload blitzes. You don't need to send 8 guys at the QB to have a mismatch...if you send 3 at the LT (2 LBs and the DE) someone should break through.

Originally posted by DynastyPart2:
And watching MNF, Julius Peppers is tearing it up! How many people here said he was washed up and not worth a pick up?

At least the Bears have the cajones to try! Our front office just sits back on its laurels and hopes that the likes of Alex Smith and Manny Lawson all of the sudden turn into Pro-Bowlers.

Show of hands, who would be mad if we had Jay Cutler and Julius Peppers playing in Red and Gold?

I know i remember a lot of people on here bashing Peppers. He's not worth the $$ or Cutler sucks. Lol whose the chumps now.

Originally posted by zeppfan1:
Consistent pass rush is what's missing. Also, in-game adjustments by Manusky.

I've been pointing out for about 5 years we need to draft a true pass rushing DE. Bill Walsh used to say you can train the Offensive players, but you need great athletes to be good on Defense. Not saying we have bad athletes on Defense, just sayin we could sure use a great DE.

Originally posted by gunslinger8:
Watching MNF and how many different blitzes Dom Capers is throwing out there. Why doesn't Manusky? Does he not trust the guys to hold up in coverage? This team as a whole has been pretty boring to watch this year.

I think he doesn't trust our CB's. I know some of you on here won't like to hear this but it's true our CB's stink. Yes they ALL DO! Clements & Spencer are #2 CB's in this league, that's at least how they play. Sorry Spencer had a good year last yer, but he does that he'll have 1 good year to his 2 subpar years and so on. He was horrid in the Seattle Game, the DB's played pretty good against the Saints until the end, then KC was pitiful. Yeah Spencer had his pick, but dude was getting burned
Clements? Wow what happened to ya man?? U were good in Buffalo a solid #1, but now you just flat out suck.
Then our Depth behind them? No one?
I don't think he can Blitz as much as he likes. Our D-Line isn't that good. Besides Justin Smith that's it. Franklin had his best year as a pro last year?? Hmmm wonder why huh?
Plus our 2 OLB's can't rush worth s**t : Lawson, and Haralson
Imagine if we did have peppers on the other end providing pressure? I think he'd throw more blitz packages in.

Originally posted by Juradon:

Originally posted by zeppfan1:
Consistent pass rush is what's missing. Also, in-game adjustments by Manusky.

I've been pointing out for about 5 years we need to draft a true pass rushing DE. Bill Walsh used to say you can train the Offensive players, but you need great athletes to be good on Defense. Not saying we have bad athletes on Defense, just sayin we could sure use a great DE.

Yes I agree or go sign a solid DE in FA which we wet the bed on last year. hats of to Chicago

The problem I seen last week was, when we were blitzing the cheifs would use counter plays and screens against us for HUGE gains. Maybe we should try some zone blitzing or something And how about Franklin not dominating up front???

My fears have been realized. Without a legitimate pass rusher (most teams have more than one) and with a suspect secondary, teams have been able to pick us apart in all aspects of the game.

We've been trying to make this 34 scheme work now for going on 6 seasons and so far we have failed to get the proper personnel to run it. We have had mixed results. Sure we have been stout against the run but we have been crap on third downs. Manny came from a 43 Willis came from a 43 MacDonald came from a 43 our NT's would probably be better suited for a 43.

Right now we do not have the personell to run a 4-3 D.
manny is no 4-3De or a 4-3 OLB, neither is Haralson.

Three things that frustrate me to unnimaginate extent.
The inability of the D to stop the opponent on key 3rd and 4th downs
No ability to stop the screen.
No passrusher.

I keep thinking back to the Dalals game in 08. Our passrush was slow, and Romo had enough room to step up and burn clements deep.
This scenario is repeating itself over and over again.

Screen passes, all three opponents have screened us to death this year.

Saints game game winning drive, 3rd&long first and only deep pass form Brees is completed and stes up the game winning field goal. how many times have we seen this happen so far?

We have a decent front seven, not great but decent. Up front we have two Pro bowlers in Smith and Willis, the rest are average at best. On the back end we are pretty average, Goldson shows flashes, but really nothing to brag about. So Manusky is forced to "Keep Everything in front of the Defense" You will see a lot of cover3 and cover 4 from this team. Manusky knows we are slow on the backend, so we set up off, and seldom play bump and run. By design we are relatively safe from the deep ball, unless someone bites on a fake. We are locked down against the run, but we give up the shot passing and screens. We give up on the underneath stuff with intention of flying to the ball and delivering the big hit. We are very reminiscent of the old "Dallas Flex" or a "Bend don't Break" style. The ides is to make teams have to make a lot of plays to get down field, and capitalize on any mistakes, or a greedy OC trying to force it deep.

I have been wondering where the pressure has gone and why we have backed away from man coverage, and that "Bum Rush" front where all seven bigs mill around before the snap, with no one down in stance.

For a tough guy Singletary has his Defense playing soft!

If Willis can improve his skills against the pass, it will help our defense out a lot. It seems opposing O-coordinators have figured out how to get the best of him in the passing game.

All good points! I, like some on here, are fed up with the constant blaming of the offense 's fault for the defenses deficiencies...please! Like I've been saying in other posts, do you think the Steelers defense was complaining the first four games of the year while their Superbowl winning QB sat out? Nope...they went out and dominated even more and pretty much won 2 of their first 3 games on defense alone (and they were just as great in the third game). So get over it. It's a lousy excuse. So we were in tight games in the first half of games? Great...but you are saying they lost "desire" in the second half. That may be true...I highlighted that Manny flea flicker TD as an example but this is EAXCTLY why we need a real coach and some players with heart. Can you imagine Bill Cowler or Jimmy Johnson standing for that? You don't think players such as Manny wouldn't be held accountable? What happened to all the "character" guys some people thank Nolan for? LOL

For me, everything starts with a philosophy, then coaching, then finding players that perfectly fit and grow into that philosophy (Steelers are another great example of a team who draft no-names often but get guys who fit THEIR system) and then game-planning/execution.

Philosophy - so what the hell is it? We're a 3-4 vanilla defense with ZERO starting pass rushing OLB's and who have only recently started using the ILB to blitz. We have bigger, stronger physical corners but b/c we have no pass rush, ask them to play 20 yards off the WR's and don't take chances. How many times have we lost playing prevent defense at the very ends of games? Are we a hybrid - saw lots of 4 down linemen in the Saints game? Our SAM is asked to cover 20 yards down the field. In the 3-4, your pass rushers are supposed to be free to rush the passer almost exclusively save for a couple drops in zone to disguise the blitz on the other side. But who's our free man? Patrick Willis...so much that we use the TED as a "defensive fullback." Willis would get his 110+ tackles every year in this 3-4 but it seems like our goal is to get him 150+ at the expense of wasting the TED position and using the OLB's as good "run defenders." So again, I ask, what is out philosophy? I've demonstrated several times, all last year in fact, that OLB's in the 3-4 comprise about 50% of their teams sacks (QB pressures, hurries, hit, etc.). Great teams are in the 55-60+% range. The Niners were almost dead last in this category but fans here in NT justified it by stating we were getting sacks from other spots on the field (guess what, so were the other 3-4 defenses). That's my point, sacks should be coming from all over the field but they should be consistently coming from ALL four of the LB's. And this year? We are NOT getting sacks from everywhere and ZERO from our starting OLB's.

Coaching- didn't we hire a pass rushing specialist coach? And didn't we allow Lawson/Haralson to exclusively rush the passer last year? Results...same year-in, year-out. At this point, we have plenty of evidence to boot that neither Haralson/Lawson can do their primary responsibiity (provide a consistent pass rush en route to stopping the run). Therefore, sticking with this is on the coaching! Now, lets look at our players:

Franklin - you can't even think of having a 3-4 defense w/o your anchor. The problem is, the coaches (good coaching) realized this guy is too small and not your wide-body 340+ pound NT who stannding there takes up two men...he must rely on (ala RJF) a one-gap system but b/c of this, we don't get ANY pressure up the gut and continue to get dominated in short yardage and esp. goal line situations. And seriously, he's our franchise tag? LOL. You can get just about any 300+ DL to play one gap effectively.

Sopoaga/Smith - Smith adds some pass rush but has a tendency to get taken out in the run game esp. when you run right at him. He seems to have lost a little bit of a step so far this year and Haralson's play is affected by this. Sopoaga is one reason Manny looks good setting the edge but he'll provide zero pass rush.

Lawson/Haralson - already covered

Brooks/LaBoy - LaBoy was an excellent starter in this league and Brooks' potential seems to be unlimited but b/c our coaches don't place a premium on pass rushers, these two are stuck rushing the passer on obvious pass rushing downs that telegraph when and where the blitz will come from (complete opposite of what the 3-4 is designed for). It's the equivalent of a Jimmy Raye dive play...the formation alone tells the o-line exactly what to expect.

Willis/Spikes - it's Bam and Bam Bam. One takes the pounding and the other gets the overrated glory. If this was a 4-3 defense, their roles would make more sense but in a 3-4, this "defensive fullback" crap is completely taking away from the purpose of the 3-4 (blitzing and disguising it)

Spencer/Clements/Brown - could these guys be used any more incorrectly? On te Steelers (great pass rush and scheme) I have a feeling these two would be lighting it up, or at least, playing their game and playing it well

Lewis/Goldson - Goldson, with his athleticism should be the SS and playing inside the box and rushing the passer. Lewis has been done for years. The FS should be either Smith or Mays, whoever has the best range, speed and play making ability. The best part about the 3-4 is that every position is interchangeable...by design. But we don't exploit that (enough).

Exotic blitz schemes - we have none. The Jets are an example of one of those 3-4 defenses that don't produce much, if at all, from the OLB's but rely heavily on "disguising" the blitz from all over the field, hence their #1 defensive ranking last year. Take notes Manusky and put down Nolan's vanilla ice cream!

Players Who Fit the Scheme - well, if you don't have a philosophy, how can you have great coaching and worse yet, how do you find players (see Nolan's hybrid players) who fit, grow and excel in this defense? And in turn, this affects their production and execution and probably, their motivation.

Look at how many one-dimensional players we have:
Franklin - can only play one gap (was terrible in two gap)
Smith - was a DE on a 4-3 team, asked to play the same role but against two linemen now (needs to work on his run defense but it two dimensional)
Sopoaga - can only play the run well but can't rush
Lawson/Haralson - can only play the run well (a little in coverage is OK, ot stellar) and can't pass rush at all
Willis - a HOF tackling machine, terrible in coverage (always has been), not a leader or a guy who can rally his troops; good at run blitzing
TKO - way too slow, only asked to be a defensive FB
Lewis/Goldson - mostly good in the box as "pseduo LBers" but that's about it (not used to blitz much and very suspect in coverage)
Clements/Spencers - can only play up at the LOS, be physical and on a team with great pass rushers so they can play aggressive
Smith/Mays - hopefully, these two can be more well-rounded

So, in the end, it's a combination of three things: Philosophy, coaching and players who fit this philosophy which in turn affects their production and motivation to shine. Manusky has been getting a free pass for a long time b/c of the offensive woes but he's 50% to blame for these losses too.

It's about time our defense was put on blast as well.

This morning on Total Access it was funny because when bringing up the 49ers, the crew said, yeah they fired their offensive coordinator, and that should get things goin.

But the main problem that no ones really adressing is the defense. We are horrible in points allowed, and that has nothing to do with the offense.

They said those exact words, and im like finally. Someone takes some of the focus on the offense, and say even when we sustain drives, like in NO, when we put it on the backs of the defense, we always allow the big play.

Hopefully we'll get it together in Atlanta.

Hey N!

Stop making sense!

Spot on as always. I ask you something N, that I contemplated during the KC game.

I remember just how badly the NO O torched us with screens and draws to Reggie and I figured KC would mirror that scheme. I was right and in droves. So, why didn't Manusky change his formations and schemes to deal with the speed and holes?

Move away from the basic 3-4 back to the Hybrid, but with three of our fastest LBs in Manny, Patrick and Navarro staying in the middle attacking the holes and speed of the KC backs. Against their scheme, the Hybrid would have been better it seems. I believe we played the mostly in a Cover-2. Am I correct in that?

WTH! Why stay with a scheme that sends your best backers out in coverage? That made no sense. Use your best front four to penetrate, use your fastest LBs to scour the line plugging holes while our DBs go man on man. Yea, I know with our secondary? Risk the edges? Cassel only had a great game cause of the trickery. He didn't do well before that game as a passer to his WRs.

I don't know why we went Cover-2?

Originally posted by ninertico:
Hey N!

Stop making sense!

Spot on as always. I ask you something N, that I contemplated during the KC game.

I remember just how badly the NO O torched us with screens and draws to Reggie and I figured KC would mirror that scheme. I was right and in droves. So, why didn't Manusky change his formations and schemes to deal with the speed and holes?

Move away from the basic 3-4 back to the Hybrid, but with three of our fastest LBs in Manny, Patrick and Navarro staying in the middle attacking the holes and speed of the KC backs. Against their scheme, the Hybrid would have been better it seems. I believe we played the mostly in a Cover-2. Am I correct in that?

WTH! Why stay with a scheme that sends your best backers out in coverage? That made no sense. Use your best front four to penetrate, use your fastest LBs to scour the line plugging holes while our DBs go man on man. Yea, I know with our secondary? Risk the edges? Cassel only had a great game cause of the trickery. He didn't do well before that game as a passer to his WRs.

I don't know why we went Cover-2?

Wassup Tico, i know u werent talkin to me, but yeah they did run mostly cover 2. Cuz on nfl gameday, they said we had our best lb in coverage for most of the game, which made him pretty ineffective.