No Shotgun Offense Please: Colts a perfect reason why.

Originally posted by miked1978:
I disagree with your logic 110%

There was nothing wrong with the Colts offense. It moved the ball when it was on the field. The problem was, they weren't on the field much. Plus Addai had like 76 yards on just 9 carries at one point.

The Colts loss bc there defense couldn't get off the field.

The Colts offense is > 95% of the rest of the league.

There was only a 1 minute difference in TOP.

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Yes, let's not be like a team that could've gone undefeated if they wanted to, and made it all the way to the Super Bowl.

lol

Look at all of the stats. The Colts defense played very well. The Saints offense couldn't even run the ball yet they still effectively used playaction passes.

The Colts offense failed because it was predictable and the inevitable happened when a team is predictable when passing: INT.

Originally posted by Joecool:
The Saints scored 45 points against the Cards and 31 Points against a solid Vikings defense.

The Colts defense only gave up 24. The Colts defense played the Saints better than any team during these playoffs.

On the other hand, the Colts offense scored 20 points against a strong Ravens defense and 30 points against the best defense in the league (Jets).

Therefore, the Colts offense scored less points than the Saints have given up on average in the Playoffs compared to the Colts Defense gave up on par points than the Saints average score in the playoffs.

Siants Defense allowed an average of 21 points (14 and 28) in the playoffs: Colts Offense only put up 17.

Saints Offense averaged 36.5 points (45 and 28) in the playoffs: Colts Defense only gave up 24.


And Colts offense turned the ball over. They lost because their offense played below average compared to their defense.

The Colts offense had 3 plays in the 2nd quarter that wasn't just trying to run the clock down, and then the Colts special teams gave the ball right back to NO at the beginning of the half.

The reason why the Colts had less points than usual was because they didn't have the amount of possessions they normally have.

Meh. Singletary has no intention of turning us into a spread offense (even thought the Colts losing had NOTHING to do with them losing).

We have to be able to do what it takes to win in a given game, be it run or pass. Our problem is we could only pass when that's all we did. We need more balance and thats what'll be coached.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Look at all of the stats. The Colts defense played very well. The Saints offense couldn't even run the ball yet they still effectively used playaction passes.

The Colts offense failed because it was predictable and the inevitable happened when a team is predictable when passing: INT.

Each team punted the ball twice. I think what you're missing is both teams used alot of ball control to grind the clock. Neither team was chucking it down the field. It was alot of long drives and a dink and dunk passing game. Less possessions is going to lead to less points.

The reality of this game was that it came down to a handful of plays. A dropped pass by Garcon swinging the momentum NO way, an onside kick, and a pick 6.

The difference is, the Saints showed the Colts many different formations. The Colts showed the Saints things they seen before. When they seen that spread formation on third and short the CB had seen it before and baited manning into throwing it.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Saints were not about to give up anything big in the passing game and the Colts played right into that and adjusted, sort of.

The Colts began running the ball easily getting 5 yard chunks. Did this help them open up their offense? Absolutely not. When they went back to the pass, they were right back where they started: dump-offs here and there with no ability to get anything open deep or yards after the catch.

Why did this happen? I mean, they were able to run the ball well. It happened because when they ran the ball, it was in Shotgun against nickel or dime. When they passed the ball, it was still against nickel or dime. Running the ball out of Shotgun had no affect on the defensive strategy. The Playaction played no part in these runs.

If they began to snap from under Center and ran the ball, it would have opened up the affect of what the importance of running the ball actually is used for, which is PLAYACTION. None of those runs set up any type of playaction to help the Colts free up something deep or a breakdown in coverage for open holes after the catch.

So please, let's not resort to being a Shotgun team.

There's a pretty legit argument in this. In the grand scheme of the NFL, where the point is to win Super Bowls, you have to be able to do certain things and one of those things is run an effective game out of "running formations" and also threaten to pass out of those formations to create mismatches in the secondary. If the defense can just sit in the zone and read a slowly developing run offense, they can always cheat deep and not give up any real chunks of yards. Furthermore, truly great defenses can usually be good for at least one or two turnovers and if you don't take a few big shots at them, they'll definitely take some at you and get you, no matter how well you can move the ball.

I believe the reason the Niners were able to keep it so close with these Colts was because they possess some special athleticism at the linebacker position and did not respect the Colt's run game enough to scare them out of zone coverage. Thus, no big plays and one of the few teams to have real success getting to Manning. They did not, however force him into any turnovers which ultimately could have been the deciding factor of the game and they of course lost in a squeaker.

The Saints, on the other hand, may not have had a great run defense, but they were able to get by and were able to force a turnover (the only turnover) that did essentially put the game out of reach.

All that being said though, the Colts offense is certainly a successful one and if Alex Smith, an almost-too-smart quarterback could learn how to function in something similar, I'd be willing to ride that kind of success to a Super Bowl and take my chances. Success does not come easy in this league, and if the coaches, the players, and the schedule is right, you have to run with it.

After all, it is just one game, and for all the prognosticating that goes on before hand, truly anything can happen.

I would like to return to Joecool's intrinsic point. Hidden in his thesis is the notion that there is a problem with a team's QB being too good. In such a case, the OC and the offensive teammates look to the QB to win the game. The gameplan and playcalling is geared to letting the elite QB win the game for you. Hence, the offense becomes too predictable, and the opposing defense is more effective by stacking the defense against the pass, even to the extent of ignoring playaction.

Therefore, we 49er fans have the best of all worlds. We do not, according to Joecool, have an elite QB. Thus, we must make sure that our running game, defense and special teams play with enough skill and passion to contribute to the win.

Thanks, Joecool, for the cool insight.

Originally posted by kstolai:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Yes, let's not be like a team that could've gone undefeated if they wanted to, and made it all the way to the Super Bowl.

lol

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Your post makes good sense. This was what I was afraid of as well, when the Niners switched to a spread/shotgun offense. It only works so much; when you are a 1 dimensional offense, you will run into a defense that can stop that. The bend but don't break mentality that Saints used last night worked; ya, they blitzed, played man to man, but on half those plays you couldn't even see the safety on the screen pre-snap.

Not only that, you have one of the greatest QB's leading that offense, some of those passes that Manning made in the first half were flat out amazing (the pass to Clark with 3 around him, the back-peddling laser he threw to Collie). I don't see Alex doing the same thing with this offense, we need to be more balanced.

Ya, he's been to the SB twice, and he beat a good Bears defense the first time, but lets face it, he was facing Grossman...and Peyton didn't have that good of a game either. In big games, against GREAT teams, being 1 dimensional will not work most of the time.

Thanks for clearifying my point of being one-dimensional. Yes, the Colts ran the ball effectively but as most of the posters on this thread don't understand is that they didn't use that success in running the ball to be more efficient in passing the ball. With rushing 70+ yards on 9 carries, they rarely ran a misdirection pass play because Manning is so "great" he doesn't need it, which resulting in more predictable passing formations and the Saints knowing exactly when the pass was coming.

The Colts offensive plan failed. Some keep talking about the onside kick being the momentum changer forgot that the Colts took the lead right back after that. Yeah, what a momentum changer.

The big difference was that when the Colts were passing, everyone and their momma knew they were passing. They should have worked with more misdirection passing plays rather than relying on the utter fail of Manning and the Tunnel Vision that happens with a great passer like him.

i dont know if you have noticed but the colts pass a lot

Two key plays other than the on-side kick and pick six that had a definite impact on the outcome of this game...one was the Garcon drop on a 3rd down play that would've moved the Colts within striking distance of the red zone. The other was just running the ball at the end of the 1st half, and not moving the chains so at least the Saints couldn't get their hands back on the ball. Wayne also dropped a couple of passes he normally catches. In short, the Colts had their chances to win this game...and simply didn't.

As for our offense, there's a time to be in the gun and a time not to be. With a revamped OL, there's no reason we can't be an effective running and passing team. You're right, the running game from under C can have a positive effect in play-action...and that's something we need to do more of next season. But, I certainly wouldn't eschew the shotgun...most of the successful playoff teams use it. The key is the right mix...so you can keep the opposing defense at least somewhat off-balance. You need to be able to run out of the gun as well as throw it downfield.

Originally posted by sincalfaithful:

Originally posted by kstolai:

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Yes, let's not be like a team that could've gone undefeated if they wanted to, and made it all the way to the Super Bowl.

lol

Originally posted by Joecool:
Look at all of the stats. The Colts defense played very well. The Saints offense couldn't even run the ball yet they still effectively used playaction passes.

The Colts offense failed because it was predictable and the inevitable happened when a team is predictable when passing: INT.

Were you watching the same game I was? Again, I'm in Indiana and see every game of theirs. The Colts defense was a shell of what it had been all season. With a couple of exceptions early in the game, Freeney and Mathis were unable to put any pressure on Brees. The linebackers and corners have been great at tackling all season long, some of the best I've seen in the NFL for a long time. Saints backs and receivers were consistently breaking multiple tackles in the same play. There were several occasions where there was confusion on the coverages, leaving receivers wide open, with no defender within 10 yards.

Sure the Saints didn't get a lot of rushing yards, but compared to the rest of the season, the Colts defense did not play well at all.

And the Colts offense has always been predictable. They actually have a very simple offense (the complexity comes in calling the plays at the line of scrimmage and everyone being on the same page). They do not rely on a lot of complicated stuff, they simply line up and try to execute the play to perfection. The problem in the Super Bowl was not their predictability, they are always predictable. It was in the execution. Wayne looked like he stuttered a bit before making the cut. If he went straight into the cut like he normally would, his body would have been between the ball and the defender, no pick 6. Garcon dropped a key 3rd down conversion pass. Wayne had a couple of drops, including one at the goal line.

I understand your interpretation, as that could definitely be something someone who doesn't see the Colts a lot would see. But as someone that sees the Colts A LOT, the problem was not predictability. They always line up and say, "Yep, this is the same play we run in this situation 75% of the time. try to stop it." And usually they are so precise that defenses cannot stop it, even when they know it is coming. Sunday night, they were not precise. It was execution, the Saints simply outplayed the Colts.

Originally posted by mrgneissguy:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Look at all of the stats. The Colts defense played very well. The Saints offense couldn't even run the ball yet they still effectively used playaction passes.

The Colts offense failed because it was predictable and the inevitable happened when a team is predictable when passing: INT.

Were you watching the same game I was? Again, I'm in Indiana and see every game of theirs. The Colts defense was a shell of what it had been all season. With a couple of exceptions early in the game, Freeney and Mathis were unable to put any pressure on Brees. The linebackers and corners have been great at tackling all season long, some of the best I've seen in the NFL for a long time. Saints backs and receivers were consistently breaking multiple tackles in the same play. There were several occasions where there was confusion on the coverages, leaving receivers wide open, with no defender within 10 yards.

Sure the Saints didn't get a lot of rushing yards, but compared to the rest of the season, the Colts defense did not play well at all.

And the Colts offense has always been predictable. They actually have a very simple offense (the complexity comes in calling the plays at the line of scrimmage and everyone being on the same page). They do not rely on a lot of complicated stuff, they simply line up and try to execute the play to perfection. The problem in the Super Bowl was not their predictability, they are always predictable. It was in the execution. Wayne looked like he stuttered a bit before making the cut. If he went straight into the cut like he normally would, his body would have been between the ball and the defender, no pick 6. Garcon dropped a key 3rd down conversion pass. Wayne had a couple of drops, including one at the goal line.

I understand your interpretation, as that could definitely be something someone who doesn't see the Colts a lot would see. But as someone that sees the Colts A LOT, the problem was not predictability. They always line up and say, "Yep, this is the same play we run in this situation 75% of the time. try to stop it." And usually they are so precise that defenses cannot stop it, even when they know it is coming. Sunday night, they were not precise. It was execution, the Saints simply outplayed the Colts.

It's no surprise the defense didn't look like it did during the regular season because they are playing one of if not the best offense in the league and that defense played this Saints offense better than anyone in the playoffs. That's my point, in perspective, the Colts Defense outplayed their offense considering the opponent opposite of them.