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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I'm sorry, guys. I just don't understand why we can't talk about s**t without being pricks to each other. John made the exact same point about Bonds and didn't have to demean anyone else in the process. People don't talk to each other like that in real life, and it pisses me off when they do it behind a computer screen.
Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
All the picks have been fine thus far. However, there should never be an all time MLB draft where the first 2 picks werent Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. They are the best 2 players to ever play the game in my opinion.
I think Bonds, Williams, Mays and Ruth all have good arguments. I just don't think there can ever be a consensus number one considering how drastically the game has changed since its inception.
I think Mays would have hit 800 homeruns if he hadnt missed 2 seasons to military and played in the toughest park in baseball for a RH hitter to hit homers.
Bonds simply was not in the class of Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Gehrig until the roid era. Sorry, but its true.
That's a fair argument.
Bonds had already won multiple MVPs by the time his head grew 3 sizes to big, you can throw him in the argument...
I dont think that is necessarily true. Bonds was a great player obviously but not one of the greatest ever to play until he had help. There are others who have won multiple MVPs who would never be in that discussion.
Listen, Bonds was a great player before the roid era. No doubt he was first ballot HOF. I just dont think he is in the class of the top 4-5 players of all time. However, What IF just looks at one year and doesnt consider the roids era so he probably would be the top pick given that.
What if Bonds had won a championship? How would you view him? Because he and Mays were the greatest 5 tool players EVER.
Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
All the picks have been fine thus far. However, there should never be an all time MLB draft where the first 2 picks werent Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. They are the best 2 players to ever play the game in my opinion.
I think Bonds, Williams, Mays and Ruth all have good arguments. I just don't think there can ever be a consensus number one considering how drastically the game has changed since its inception.
I think Mays would have hit 800 homeruns if he hadnt missed 2 seasons to military and played in the toughest park in baseball for a RH hitter to hit homers.
Bonds simply was not in the class of Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Gehrig until the roid era. Sorry, but its true.
That's a fair argument.
Bonds had already won multiple MVPs by the time his head grew 3 sizes to big, you can throw him in the argument...
I dont think that is necessarily true. Bonds was a great player obviously but not one of the greatest ever to play until he had help. There are others who have won multiple MVPs who would never be in that discussion.
Listen, Bonds was a great player before the roid era. No doubt he was first ballot HOF. I just dont think he is in the class of the top 4-5 players of all time. However, What IF just looks at one year and doesnt consider the roids era so he probably would be the top pick given that.
What if Bonds had won a championship? How would you view him? Because he and Mays were the greatest 5 tool players EVER.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
All the picks have been fine thus far. However, there should never be an all time MLB draft where the first 2 picks werent Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. They are the best 2 players to ever play the game in my opinion.
I think Bonds, Williams, Mays and Ruth all have good arguments. I just don't think there can ever be a consensus number one considering how drastically the game has changed since its inception.
I think Mays would have hit 800 homeruns if he hadnt missed 2 seasons to military and played in the toughest park in baseball for a RH hitter to hit homers.
Bonds simply was not in the class of Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Gehrig until the roid era. Sorry, but its true.
That's a fair argument.
Bonds had already won multiple MVPs by the time his head grew 3 sizes to big, you can throw him in the argument...
I dont think that is necessarily true. Bonds was a great player obviously but not one of the greatest ever to play until he had help. There are others who have won multiple MVPs who would never be in that discussion.
Listen, Bonds was a great player before the roid era. No doubt he was first ballot HOF. I just dont think he is in the class of the top 4-5 players of all time. However, What IF just looks at one year and doesnt consider the roids era so he probably would be the top pick given that.
What if Bonds had won a championship? How would you view him? Because he and Mays were the greatest 5 tool players EVER.
There's another person I want to bring up (in their prime), but don't wanna name drop.
John...what do you think about the "5 tool" argument? Williams probably doesn't fit that description, and Ruth doesn't in the conventional sense (although the pitching's an interesting element).
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I'm sorry, guys. I just don't understand why we can't talk about s**t without being pricks to each other. John made the exact same point about Bonds and didn't have to demean anyone else in the process. People don't talk to each other like that in real life, and it pisses me off when they do it behind a computer screen.
Originally posted by TheSixthRing:Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
All the picks have been fine thus far. However, there should never be an all time MLB draft where the first 2 picks werent Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. They are the best 2 players to ever play the game in my opinion.
I think Bonds, Williams, Mays and Ruth all have good arguments. I just don't think there can ever be a consensus number one considering how drastically the game has changed since its inception.
I think Mays would have hit 800 homeruns if he hadnt missed 2 seasons to military and played in the toughest park in baseball for a RH hitter to hit homers.
Bonds simply was not in the class of Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Gehrig until the roid era. Sorry, but its true.
That's a fair argument.
Bonds had already won multiple MVPs by the time his head grew 3 sizes to big, you can throw him in the argument...
I dont think that is necessarily true. Bonds was a great player obviously but not one of the greatest ever to play until he had help. There are others who have won multiple MVPs who would never be in that discussion.
Listen, Bonds was a great player before the roid era. No doubt he was first ballot HOF. I just dont think he is in the class of the top 4-5 players of all time. However, What IF just looks at one year and doesnt consider the roids era so he probably would be the top pick given that.
What if Bonds had won a championship? How would you view him? Because he and Mays were the greatest 5 tool players EVER.
Well these guys are the greatest 4 Tool players EVER!
Originally posted by Hollywood49er:Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I'm sorry, guys. I just don't understand why we can't talk about s**t without being pricks to each other. John made the exact same point about Bonds and didn't have to demean anyone else in the process. People don't talk to each other like that in real life, and it pisses me off when they do it behind a computer screen.
Its funny you say this because you throw insults at people all the time, it might not be as blatant as the ones I threw at you, but you do it.
Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
All the picks have been fine thus far. However, there should never be an all time MLB draft where the first 2 picks werent Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. They are the best 2 players to ever play the game in my opinion.
I think Bonds, Williams, Mays and Ruth all have good arguments. I just don't think there can ever be a consensus number one considering how drastically the game has changed since its inception.
I think Mays would have hit 800 homeruns if he hadnt missed 2 seasons to military and played in the toughest park in baseball for a RH hitter to hit homers.
Bonds simply was not in the class of Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Gehrig until the roid era. Sorry, but its true.
Same could be said for Ted Williams who missed three prime years of his career due to wars. Bonds played in a pitchers park for most of his career and did end up breaking up the home run record. The best pitcher Mays faced was Koufax, who is arguably one of the greats, but pitchers in the modern area are a totally different beast.
I just don't think there's a consensus best player, just too many variables.
On a side note, where the hell is ATG? A's fans......
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
All the picks have been fine thus far. However, there should never be an all time MLB draft where the first 2 picks werent Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. They are the best 2 players to ever play the game in my opinion.
I think Bonds, Williams, Mays and Ruth all have good arguments. I just don't think there can ever be a consensus number one considering how drastically the game has changed since its inception.
I think Mays would have hit 800 homeruns if he hadnt missed 2 seasons to military and played in the toughest park in baseball for a RH hitter to hit homers.
Bonds simply was not in the class of Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Gehrig until the roid era. Sorry, but its true.
Same could be said for Ted Williams who missed three prime years of his career due to wars. Bonds played in a pitchers park for most of his career and did end up breaking up the home run record. The best pitcher Mays faced was Koufax, who is arguably one of the greats, but pitchers in the modern area are a totally different beast.
I just don't think there's a consensus best player, just too many variables.
On a side note, where the hell is ATG? A's fans......
Perhaps you missed where I included Ted Williams in the list of the 4 guys I would put at the top. He missed several years and would have hit 700+ wiithout question.
As far as your comment about pitchers, well I just dont agree with that generalization. Willie Mays faced many many great pitchers. In fact, I think you could make an arguement that pitching today is no better and possibly worse than it was during Mays time. In his era pitchers could drill batters almost at will, pitching wasnt as watered down by expansion, and there were MANY great Hall of Fame pitchers. I just dont buy that todays pitchers are better as a whole.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by Hollywood49er:Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I'm sorry, guys. I just don't understand why we can't talk about s**t without being pricks to each other. John made the exact same point about Bonds and didn't have to demean anyone else in the process. People don't talk to each other like that in real life, and it pisses me off when they do it behind a computer screen.
Its funny you say this because you throw insults at people all the time, it might not be as blatant as the ones I threw at you, but you do it.
I confront people when I think they're being jerks, yes. But I never fire the first round.
Originally posted by ninerlifer:Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by Hollywood49er:Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I'm sorry, guys. I just don't understand why we can't talk about s**t without being pricks to each other. John made the exact same point about Bonds and didn't have to demean anyone else in the process. People don't talk to each other like that in real life, and it pisses me off when they do it behind a computer screen.
Its funny you say this because you throw insults at people all the time, it might not be as blatant as the ones I threw at you, but you do it.
I confront people when I think they're being jerks, yes. But I never fire the first round.
End This....this is retarded!!!!!!!
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
All the picks have been fine thus far. However, there should never be an all time MLB draft where the first 2 picks werent Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. They are the best 2 players to ever play the game in my opinion.
I think Bonds, Williams, Mays and Ruth all have good arguments. I just don't think there can ever be a consensus number one considering how drastically the game has changed since its inception.
I think Mays would have hit 800 homeruns if he hadnt missed 2 seasons to military and played in the toughest park in baseball for a RH hitter to hit homers.
Bonds simply was not in the class of Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Gehrig until the roid era. Sorry, but its true.
Same could be said for Ted Williams who missed three prime years of his career due to wars. Bonds played in a pitchers park for most of his career and did end up breaking up the home run record. The best pitcher Mays faced was Koufax, who is arguably one of the greats, but pitchers in the modern area are a totally different beast.
I just don't think there's a consensus best player, just too many variables.
On a side note, where the hell is ATG? A's fans......
Perhaps you missed where I included Ted Williams in the list of the 4 guys I would put at the top. He missed several years and would have hit 700+ wiithout question.
As far as your comment about pitchers, well I just dont agree with that generalization. Willie Mays faced many many great pitchers. In fact, I think you could make an arguement that pitching today is no better and possibly worse than it was during Mays time. In his era pitchers could drill batters almost at will, pitching wasnt as watered down by expansion, and there were MANY great Hall of Fame pitchers. I just dont buy that todays pitchers are better as a whole.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:Originally posted by itlynstalyn:Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
All the picks have been fine thus far. However, there should never be an all time MLB draft where the first 2 picks werent Babe Ruth and Willie Mays. They are the best 2 players to ever play the game in my opinion.
I think Bonds, Williams, Mays and Ruth all have good arguments. I just don't think there can ever be a consensus number one considering how drastically the game has changed since its inception.
I think Mays would have hit 800 homeruns if he hadnt missed 2 seasons to military and played in the toughest park in baseball for a RH hitter to hit homers.
Bonds simply was not in the class of Ruth, Mays, Williams, or Gehrig until the roid era. Sorry, but its true.
Same could be said for Ted Williams who missed three prime years of his career due to wars. Bonds played in a pitchers park for most of his career and did end up breaking up the home run record. The best pitcher Mays faced was Koufax, who is arguably one of the greats, but pitchers in the modern area are a totally different beast.
I just don't think there's a consensus best player, just too many variables.
On a side note, where the hell is ATG? A's fans......
Perhaps you missed where I included Ted Williams in the list of the 4 guys I would put at the top. He missed several years and would have hit 700+ wiithout question.
As far as your comment about pitchers, well I just dont agree with that generalization. Willie Mays faced many many great pitchers. In fact, I think you could make an arguement that pitching today is no better and possibly worse than it was during Mays time. In his era pitchers could drill batters almost at will, pitching wasnt as watered down by expansion, and there were MANY great Hall of Fame pitchers. I just dont buy that todays pitchers are better as a whole.
What's your opinion of the Japanese/Latin/Black influence on the game that wasn't there during Ruth and Williams' careers?
