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NEW YORK YANKEES REGULAR SEASON THREAD

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.
[ Edited by andes14 on Jul 9, 2011 at 4:28 PM ]
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

You're gauging a shortstop's value by slugging percentage?
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

You're gauging a shortstop's value by slugging percentage?

I gauge batters in general by that (since it doesn't take walks into account, I actually think (total bases + walks)/(at-bats + walks) is a better formula, but that's obviously not a traditional statistic). There are plenty of non-power hitters that still have great slugging %'s (i.e. Jose Reyes, also a shortstop), so it's not like I'm knocking him for not being a home run hitter or something like that.
[ Edited by andes14 on Jul 9, 2011 at 4:46 PM ]
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

Andes???? Really! First i will admit that i'm a yankee fan so i am biased but he is the 4th fastest player to get 3000 hits. there's only 28 people in history on that list. until last year he played at a high level in all of those years batting 300. I already posted the stat about the double didgit seasons with homers and doubles. The 3000 hit club has very few short-stops if any and that has to be the hardest position to play in the field. Think about how many great yankees there have been and none of them have ever done something like this. Even guys like boggs and gwynn and ripken were fantastic but they were limping up to the plate in crutches trying to get 3000 before they retired...

Just glad for Jeter because he takes so much flack but nobody would have ever thought he would have done it like this...
i'm more impressed that he's engaged to minka kelly
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

You're gauging a shortstop's value by slugging percentage?

I gauge batters in general by that (since it doesn't take walks into account, I actually think (total bases + walks)/(at-bats + walks) is a better formula, but that's obviously not a traditional statistic). There are plenty of non-power hitters that still have great slugging %'s (i.e. Jose Reyes, also a shortstop), so it's not like I'm knocking him for not being a home run hitter or something like that.

Are you talking about the same Jose Reyes who has a lower career slugging percentage and much lower OPS than Derek Jeter? That Jose Reyes?

Gauging a SS's value by slugging percentage alone is absurd. Jeter's OPS numbers...even adjusted for era (OPS+)...are right up there with any SS aside from Honus Wagner and Alex Rodriguez.

I'm convinced you're 12321.
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

Andes???? Really! First i will admit that i'm a yankee fan so i am biased but he is the 4th fastest player to get 3000 hits. there's only 28 people in history on that list. until last year he played at a high level in all of those years batting 300. I already posted the stat about the double didgit seasons with homers and doubles. The 3000 hit club has very few short-stops if any and that has to be the hardest position to play in the field. Think about how many great yankees there have been and none of them have ever done something like this. Even guys like boggs and gwynn and ripken were fantastic but they were limping up to the plate in crutches trying to get 3000 before they retired...

Just glad for Jeter because he takes so much flack but nobody would have ever thought he would have done it like this...

Uh, double digit homers and doubles? Is 10 supposed to be a milestone figure for those? Lol, come on now, that's not like a 1,000 yard receiving season in football, or double digit rebounds or assists per game in basketball, etc. No one applauds a player for hitting 10 homers or doubles. I'd bet a higher % of his hits were singles than most of the other guys on the list. It's a great accomplishment, don't get me wrong, but he's still overrated. In fact, he's never won MVP (which he'd only have to be the most valuable player amongst 14 teams), but i don't even think he's close to the best player of this era to NOT win MVP.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

You're gauging a shortstop's value by slugging percentage?

I gauge batters in general by that (since it doesn't take walks into account, I actually think (total bases + walks)/(at-bats + walks) is a better formula, but that's obviously not a traditional statistic). There are plenty of non-power hitters that still have great slugging %'s (i.e. Jose Reyes, also a shortstop), so it's not like I'm knocking him for not being a home run hitter or something like that.

Are you talking about the same Jose Reyes who has a lower career slugging percentage and much lower OPS than Derek Jeter? That Jose Reyes?

Gauging a SS's value by slugging percentage alone is absurd. Jeter's OPS numbers...even adjusted for era (OPS+)...are right up there with any SS aside from Honus Wagner and Alex Rodriguez.

I'm convinced you're 12321.

Excuse me, I meant to say Jose Reyes' slugging from this year, not career. And I don't deny that Jeter is one of the better shortstops ever. That doesn't mean he's not overrated. I mean, like I said, he's slugged at least .485 just once. Troy Tulowitzki slugged .552 in '09, .568 in '10, and is on track for his 3rd such season this year. And he's a shortstop. So I'm perfectly fine not giving shortstops an exemption from looking at slugging.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

Andes???? Really! First i will admit that i'm a yankee fan so i am biased but he is the 4th fastest player to get 3000 hits. there's only 28 people in history on that list. until last year he played at a high level in all of those years batting 300. I already posted the stat about the double didgit seasons with homers and doubles. The 3000 hit club has very few short-stops if any and that has to be the hardest position to play in the field. Think about how many great yankees there have been and none of them have ever done something like this. Even guys like boggs and gwynn and ripken were fantastic but they were limping up to the plate in crutches trying to get 3000 before they retired...

Just glad for Jeter because he takes so much flack but nobody would have ever thought he would have done it like this...

Uh, double digit homers and doubles? Is 10 supposed to be a milestone figure for those? Lol, come on now, that's not like a 1,000 yard receiving season in football, or double digit rebounds or assists per game in basketball, etc. No one applauds a player for hitting 10 homers or doubles. I'd bet a higher % of his hits were singles than most of the other guys on the list. It's a great accomplishment, don't get me wrong, but he's still overrated. In fact, he's never won MVP (which he'd only have to be the most valuable player amongst 14 teams), but i don't even think he's close to the best player of this era to NOT win MVP.

I'll give you the homers stats because i didn't look them up. i just read the stat on espn. i knew it was low but yeah 10 is not that great. The MVP voting is baseball is crap though. Jeter should have won it a couple of years ago but they put so much emphasis on home run hitters. Wade boggs had a streak of 5 or 6 years where he had 200 hits and 100 walks in each season. That's getting on base over 300 times in a year. They just look for the guys that are hot that year in RBI'S and HR's and give the MVP to them. Guys like Boggs and Jeter don't even get consider for the award because singles, walks, doubles and gold gloves are just not sexy...
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

Andes???? Really! First i will admit that i'm a yankee fan so i am biased but he is the 4th fastest player to get 3000 hits. there's only 28 people in history on that list. until last year he played at a high level in all of those years batting 300. I already posted the stat about the double didgit seasons with homers and doubles. The 3000 hit club has very few short-stops if any and that has to be the hardest position to play in the field. Think about how many great yankees there have been and none of them have ever done something like this. Even guys like boggs and gwynn and ripken were fantastic but they were limping up to the plate in crutches trying to get 3000 before they retired...

Just glad for Jeter because he takes so much flack but nobody would have ever thought he would have done it like this...

Uh, double digit homers and doubles? Is 10 supposed to be a milestone figure for those? Lol, come on now, that's not like a 1,000 yard receiving season in football, or double digit rebounds or assists per game in basketball, etc. No one applauds a player for hitting 10 homers or doubles. I'd bet a higher % of his hits were singles than most of the other guys on the list. It's a great accomplishment, don't get me wrong, but he's still overrated. In fact, he's never won MVP (which he'd only have to be the most valuable player amongst 14 teams), but i don't even think he's close to the best player of this era to NOT win MVP.

I'll give you the homers stats because i didn't look them up. i just read the stat on espn. i knew it was low but yeah 10 is not that great. The MVP voting is baseball is crap though. Jeter should have won it a couple of years ago but they put so much emphasis on home run hitters. Wade boggs had a streak of 5 or 6 years where he had 200 hits and 100 walks in each season. That's getting on base over 300 times in a year. They just look for the guys that are hot that year in RBI'S and HR's and give the MVP to them. Guys like Boggs and Jeter don't even get consider for the award because singles, walks, doubles and gold gloves are just not sexy...

Which year exactly should Jeter have won it? I bet I can name several players that were more deserving in whichever year(s) you say. Also, there have been PLENTY of MVP's that don't rack up the homers and RBI's. Guys like Larkin, Pendleton, Pedroia, Ichiro, etc.
Originally posted by teeohh:
i'm more impressed that he's engaged to minka kelly

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

no way

im not a yankee fan but hes one of ten guys ( i think) that has that accomplishment he may be one of the best SS to play the game

He's done some very impressive things...that being said, no way he deserves to have made over $200M in his career (and likely north of $250M when it's all said and done). In baseball, stats tell the whole story. You can essentially rank and judge players never having watched any of them, just based sheerly on stats (with the exception of maybe ability in the field). The best mainstream one, in my opinion, is slugging % (total bases per at-bat). His career slugging is .449- very mediocre. There are 62 guys that have slugging %'s higher than that this year, just for some perspective. He also has had only one season with a slugging % above .485. There are 40 guys right now that are over that mark. Considering the fact that pitchers are dominating today WAAAAAY more than 5, 10, 15 years ago (the Braves led the majors in ERA in 2000 at 4.05...right now those same Braves are over a full run lower and that 4.05 mark would rank 20th today), that's pretty surprising.

Andes???? Really! First i will admit that i'm a yankee fan so i am biased but he is the 4th fastest player to get 3000 hits. there's only 28 people in history on that list. until last year he played at a high level in all of those years batting 300. I already posted the stat about the double didgit seasons with homers and doubles. The 3000 hit club has very few short-stops if any and that has to be the hardest position to play in the field. Think about how many great yankees there have been and none of them have ever done something like this. Even guys like boggs and gwynn and ripken were fantastic but they were limping up to the plate in crutches trying to get 3000 before they retired...

Just glad for Jeter because he takes so much flack but nobody would have ever thought he would have done it like this...

how does this situation not qualify for "limping to the plate on crutches to get 3000"? Jeter is clearly not the player he once was. its not like hes reaching 3000 early and will blow right past it. his defense has deteriorated. his range is gone. any other team wouldve moved him to another position, but the Yankees are too afraid to tell him he isnt a SS anymore. the fact that he won a GG last year, and made the all-star team this year is a joke.

Jeter had an incredible career, and 3000 hits is a big accomplishment, but without his legendary postseasons, i think his career is alot less on par with the other Yankee legends. if he spent his career on a losing team who never made the playoffs, he isnt being compared with Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio, etc.

The Yankee bias makes him one of the most overrated players ever. and its nothing against Jeter. hes been a HOF caliber SS. the fans just treat him like hes the best SS to ever play.
Originally posted by andes14:
Great accomplishment, but still one of the most overrated athletes ever.

HOFer for sure
[ Edited by jrg on Jul 9, 2011 at 11:19 PM ]
Great accomplishment for Jeter to get to 3k hits, but best SS of all time? He isn't even the best SS of his time. Cal Ripken? Too bad A-Rod moved to 3B, otherwise he is easily the better player.
I cant believe people are calling Jeter one of the most overrated players ever. Give me a break. Anyone who can get 3000 hits is just not overrated. PERIOD. I could care less what his slugging average is.

I dont remember ANYONE ever saying that he was the greatest player of all time or even the greatest SS of all time. He is certainly a first ballot Hall of Famer that played the game with class and all out effort every time he has taken the field.