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2013 - Week 2: Thoughts after watching the game...

Originally posted by SFL49ER:
I don't understand where the WestCoast offense has gone. We have smaller receivers in this matchup and should have exploited the quick passing routes more to open up the run game from I formations. We had success with quick routes. I don't get the coaches thinking there.

I don't understand running a read option offense in this matchup especially with a downhill defense with speedsters rushing the passer and a strong physical Dline??????? And definitely not at the beginning of the game. We need that offense when the D is tired, and slowed by our passing production backing them off.

One huge issue I had was that Seattles Defense had a HUGE edge on getting the better start at the snap of the ball. You can not put any blame on the coaches for that. It was just the home crowd advantage that made us use the hand signals for the snap and unfortunately they were able to get great timing of the snap. (Don't look for our pass protection to be anywhere near as this bad for the rest of the season.) Overall, my main issue was the OFFENSIVE game planning and lack of adjustments made to counter their defensive attack, i.e. screens, sweeps, no Hunter, no Patton. WTF

--the issue is not Gore, and is not defense

Well....part of the problem is that our receivers aren't that quick either. The seattle secondary is big AND fast. That's why they are the best in the NFL.

Yes...the jump the DE get due to the noise was HUGE for Anthony Davis in particular. He was having trouble in pass protection all night.

Typically the 49ers can help him with play action, but when there is no fear of the run...its FAR less effective.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by threelittlebirds:
I'm getting tired of people talking about their loud stadium. It certainly helps them get the other team rattled and messes up communications. But that pales in comparison to the NFL allowing them to so blatantly cheat in the secondary. I get the 5 yard rule where you can jam a WR, but you're not allowed to straight up grab/hug/maul a guy so that he can't even run his route... the lack of enforcement on that rule is BS because they never stop contact at 5 yards... they keep going until 7 or 8 yards and then ease up a little but continue with lots of illegal contact with little shoves and holds.

I've watched other Seattle games and they aren't allowed to do that to anyone else but the 49ers. Sure they play physical, but they don't just maul and throw WRs to the ground without drawing a single flag until the game is already over.

My personal favorite was when their CB took Patton and literally just threw him down on the ground. And yes, this IS allowed in Seattle...has been for a couple years now. It's when they travel elsewhere where's it's called (see first few plays of the Redskins/Hawks playoff game last year). We got ONE illegal contact penalty at the very end of 4Q. That said, we KNOW this going in and have to be able to counter in some fashion It's no secret. Like the Ravens, they have established themselves as that kind of team, culture, and it's not going to change any time soon. It certainly does make for an uphill battle of frustration but professional teams need to find ways to overcome it. Maybe picks plays would work better?

I can't believe the 49ers came unprepared for that physical play from the DBs again. Like you said, there are ways to overcome that with bunch packages, pick plays and even putting the WR in motion. It is unfortunate that their only wrinkle was a no-huddle instead of doing something to avoid the illegal play by the DBs. The 49ers knew going into the game that the refs won't call it, I mean they complained about it last year and it didn't change anything.
s**t gameplan: Why would you force Read Option into a downhill speedy, very physical front 7? You use that formation when the Defense is already slowed.

What was so inexcusable was what the coaches didn't GO BACK TO at all and that was the quick short passing routes to move the ball methodically. That is the passing gameplan you use against taller physical corners. Get your shifty receivers crossing and in bunches while sending your biggest WR to get physical on the outside. But Baldwin doesn't even dress, and Patton isn't even used hardly. (I did see Patton doing jumping jacks in the endzone once so I have to give some credit
What team relies on their Full back making a catch on a crossing pattern? I didn't blame Miller too much for that because I wouldn't expect him to catch that kind of pass from Kap, while being covered by a defender. Dump off sure, but not those.

were we using Miller in Delanie Walker's role for this game?

"The score got nuts when they went down by more than 2 scores and THEN went outside their regular offense. What happened then?"

of course that is going to happen when they know you are going to pass....their Dline were unleashed after that...just go get him.

They adjusted and became less predictable...and forced us to do s**t we never usually do, like blitz Craig F'n Dahl..lol...and they were ready for it.

I can't believe you don't want to admit that we were out coached.....again by Seattle....and blame the players instead.
I'm sure the were prepared, just didn't execute and got outplayed, we were marching down the field until the tipped pass and interception at the goal line. It was downhill after that.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
"The problem wasn't the plan...it was the execution. Seattle was GLUED to receivers all night and the O-Line just couldn't get a push."

Marvin, its easy to glue our receivers when the personnel we have there is a full back as one of our receivers... running routes..getting the ball thrown to him, with of course him dropping it.

it might not have been the "plan", but it was the "personnel" the coaches choose to use. I mean they also had Osgood out there running routes, what threat does he pose?

we continue to run Gore out of the pistol formation...again personnel we use. I've said it before, but we should always have Hunter or James back there for the pistol. Hunter can pass block for alittle guy. And we need to run regular WCO formations for Gore.

its the coaches man....Seattle has adjusted to us, where as we still seem stubborn to make adjustments.


There could be some merit to that....but what personnel SHOULD we have used? That's who we are. Thats how the team was built. It works pretty damn well against every OTHER team in the NFL.

Are you suggesting they go into the noisiest stadium in the NFL against one of the best defenses in the NFL and try to be something they aren't? Go 5 wide on every down?

You are telling me the gameplan was horrible. Give me a better one then.


There were a couple Gore runs out of a "traditional" power set with QB under center and FB as lead blocker, and those were probably the 2-3 best runs of the night. I'm not saying abandon the Pistol and the read-option. But when it's quite obvious (as in these first two games) that your opponent just IS NOT going to give in, then it's time to adjust.

Also, I think all the pre-snap shifts are detrimental in a noisy place like Seattle...sure, it's normally part of the offense meant to confuse/disguise, but the last two games up there have shown it just chews up play clock and increases the chances for a false start, delay of game, or some kind of error. And as long as Gore is the RB, why not do more of what he's best at, and in fact what he prefers...remember his "I didn't think it was real football" comments re: first time he saw the Pistol? Not saying you change just to placate him, I'm saying do a bit more of what he's best at, not to mention Kaepernick has proven he can be effective throwing from under center.

Re: defense, I thought they played well in the first half, not-so-good in the second, although some of that can be attributed to pathetic Niner offense. However, besides the secondary once again being exposed on some big plays, it was concerning to see the Seahawks just abuse the Niner DL/LBs with the read-option...sorta ironic. For the life of me I don't know why the Seahawks would go away from it at times, trying stretch/sweep plays, when the Niners were showing no ability to stop Lynch on the RO up the middle, and Wilson gashed them the couple times he kept it, burned Aldon Smith real bad on that 2nd & 13 play early in the 4th qtr, setting up TD pass to Lynch.

Again, the Pistol/RO should remain an integral part of this offense, but you just can't be stubborn about it, and adjustments need to be made when it's apparent it's not working. All that said, even if they did the things that me-the-armchair-coach would like to see, chances are they still lose that game. Right now they just don't match up well with the Seahawks, and Seattle is the better team, both in personnel and coaching. But I think the 49ers have the pieces to change that by the next meeting and into the playoffs.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
"The problem wasn't the plan...it was the execution. Seattle was GLUED to receivers all night and the O-Line just couldn't get a push."

Marvin, its easy to glue our receivers when the personnel we have there is a full back as one of our receivers... running routes..getting the ball thrown to him, with of course him dropping it.

it might not have been the "plan", but it was the "personnel" the coaches choose to use. I mean they also had Osgood out there running routes, what threat does he pose?

we continue to run Gore out of the pistol formation...again personnel we use. I've said it before, but we should always have Hunter or James back there for the pistol. Hunter can pass block for alittle guy. And we need to run regular WCO formations for Gore.

its the coaches man....Seattle has adjusted to us, where as we still seem stubborn to make adjustments.


Thank you!!!!!! Everyone is good in the nfl. It's about adjustments. Our use of personnel and scheme just scream of arrogance. Our scheme obviously wasn't working and there was no plan to do anything different


I call BS on that one.

First series of the game and they came out in no huddle. That is a radical shift from anythig they've done before. The plan was to wear the defense down and slince the crowd. If they'd been able to convert a few first downs, it may have worked.

The problem was in EXECUTION.

Hell, if Miller can catch the ball the Niners might have been up 7-0. Instead there's a pick and the Niners never get in the endzone.

The score really doesn't matter because it was a CLOSE game before the 49ers started handing out 1st downs in the redzone on Personal Fouls. The score got nuts when they went down by more than 2 scores and THEN went outside their regular offense. What happened then?

Turnover city. Thats how the score got out of hand.

The score got really lopside and could have been worse had Seattle tried to score at the end, but it was a close game most of the way through before some mistakes blew it open. Credit goes to Seattle for taking advantage and just keeping at it when things weren't going well early.


I don't see the no huddle as a team doing anything different. Is is 2013 for Christ sakes, if your team can't run the no huddle you don't belong in the nfl....

Yes, I agree execution was a problem, only made worse by penalties and turnovers against a really good team...

But seeing your wideouts getting punished cause they were in bad positions (no bunches, ) and seeing our running game (13 yards by rbs) tells me we were outcoached by Seattle. Again. They find ways to gameplan against us and we can't seem to do the same back... Is that coaching or is Seattle that much better???


Still have faith that we are gonna put together a real great season. As always, Marvin, appreciate your analysis,
you must love suffering if you willingly went back and watched that horrible game
without Delanie the pistol seems really difficult to execute runs out of this season. Passes too, sure he'd drop passes but he was able to frequently get open. Niners don't have the offensive personal, at the moment, to beat these guys mainly utilizing the pistol. The game plan should be based around the i form and WCO concepts. And perhaps treating Colin more like Alex Smith is what it will take to beat these guys.
Didn't the game last year also feature a good Kaepernick drive early ending in a red zone turnover? If Kaepernick makes the right read and is not picked off in the end zone we could have had a different game. The suggests execution. On one of the earlier plays calling for Miller to make a diving catch on a Kaepernick laser 15 yards down field, that one is scheme. Miller is a FB with + receiving ability, he is not a receiver. Why not use more Vance MacDonald?

The defense deserves credit for keeping the game as close as they did. They were able to bottle up Seattle's offense fairly regularly if not for wearing down. As for the penalties, it is something that needs to be worked out, but it may also have been impacted by the frustration with the offense. I'd also like to point out that Seattle found success after Reid's departure, not before it. If he's healthy Reid looks to be a good one.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
What team relies on their Full back making a catch on a crossing pattern? I didn't blame Miller too much for that because I wouldn't expect him to catch that kind of pass from Kap, while being covered by a defender. Dump off sure, but not those.

were we using Miller in Delanie Walker's role for this game?

"The score got nuts when they went down by more than 2 scores and THEN went outside their regular offense. What happened then?"

of course that is going to happen when they know you are going to pass....their Dline were unleashed after that...just go get him.

They adjusted and became less predictable...and forced us to do s**t we never usually do, like blitz Craig F'n Dahl..lol...and they were ready for it.

I can't believe you don't want to admit that we were out coached.....again by Seattle....and blame the players instead.


I think Seattle has outcoached us in 2-3 straight games.... They just seem to know when to use a dirty little trick against us for big plays---- like to lob to a wide open lynch for TD.... Granted the game was ugly at that point
[ Edited by Big_Daddy on Sep 16, 2013 at 12:20 PM ]
Hate to say it....Seattle is the newer meaner and more physical version of the 90's Cowboys. Pure dynasty in the making. The 49ers? Yeah we will be lucky to ever sniff another Lombardi in this lifetime. Gotta say it's going to be very hard for us in the next few years.....
The same feelings came back like last season after the NY Giants "revenge game"
http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/09/16/pete-carroll-what-did-anquan-do-tonight/
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Two weeks in, and I think we've given the ball to an RB outside of the tackles once or twice. Everything's up the gut, into a mass of humanity for 1 or 2 yards. Looking like Singletary's offense.

Its funny how people see things differently. You say we have run too much power. Guys like sus say we didn't do it enough.

Goes to show that its just as simple as doing the opposite of what failed...you know, like you should know what wasn't going to work then doing the opposite before you ever tried and failed at doing what didn't work.