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Rationale for letting Goldson, Sopoaga go and not sign other FA's

  • Disp
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Originally posted by NCommand:
Ppl are afraid to lose Whitner but again, you can't get any worse than him in coverage (most TD's given up in the NFL and gave up 2 in the Superbowl). Even if we do lose Goldson, I'm not as concerned as many on this board to lose both.

I agree. I think Goldson is probably a 90% chance of being gone this year, and after next season Whitner will be too. I'd personally rather let Goldson walk unless he's willing to take around a $5mil/yr. deal, which he won't. This team has uncovered gems on it's own roster over the last couple years (Bowman, Boone, Miller, Kaepernick) by just giving another player a chance, and Goldson has enough vulnerabilities that he's just not a vital player on defense.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Exactly! And these are the same tough cuts we're seeing all around the NFL right now (esp. Atlanta).

With going to the Q offense (more shot gun and more mobile QB and two RB's in to block if needed), it's safe to say Baalke, in a move to validate last year's draft, may push for Looney to push Goodwin and start.

Ppl are afraid to lose Whitner but again, you can't get any worse than him in coverage (most TD's given up in the NFL and gave up 2 in the Superbowl). Even if we do lose Goldson, I'm not as concerned as many on this board to lose both.

Agreed 100%. I think the only reason we wouldn't cut Whitner is because of what he may give us in the locker room. No need to give too much of a culture shock to the guys. But if Harbaugh and company don't think a Whitner cut would do that, then by all means, cut his ass, keep Goldson, move him to SS, and draft a FS (along with a couple corners that can challenge Rogers for a starting spot in case Culliver doesn't).

I'm not too concerned about losing Goldson but the idea of losing him, keeping Whitner, and having a rookie start next to Whitner scares me. It scares me quite a bit and I'd much rather not have that situation play out on game days.

*Edit: I just saw that Adrian Wilson was cut by the Cardinals...Whitner replacement? I'd be very comfortable losing Goldson and Whitner if we brought in Adrian Wilson
[ Edited by GameOver on Mar 8, 2013 at 10:45 AM ]
I'd rather have a rookie out of the draft playing SS than FS.

On another note, Adrian Wilson? Yikes, that guy hits like a freight train. Hits like Whitner, but he's 6'3", tall enough to guard those TE's. But, I think he's quite a few years older than Whitner.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'd rather have a rookie out of the draft playing SS than FS.

On another note, Adrian Wilson? Yikes, that guy hits like a freight train. Hits like Whitner, but he's 6'3", tall enough to guard those TE's. But, I think he's quite a few years older than Whitner.

He'd be a stop gap, hopefully at a cheaper rate than the 4 mill that we owe Whitner too. We'd just need him for a couple years, he'd be willing to take a price break because of his age and the opportunity at a ship. He's also better in coverage than Whitner and just as much of an enforcer. I think we all need to face the fact that this draft is going to be heavy as far as the secondary goes. If we have 15 picks, I'm expecting us to end up keeping 9 of them at least and half of those going to secondary players.
Originally posted by GameOver:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'd rather have a rookie out of the draft playing SS than FS.

On another note, Adrian Wilson? Yikes, that guy hits like a freight train. Hits like Whitner, but he's 6'3", tall enough to guard those TE's. But, I think he's quite a few years older than Whitner.

He'd be a stop gap, hopefully at a cheaper rate than the 4 mill that we owe Whitner too. We'd just need him for a couple years, he'd be willing to take a price break because of his age and the opportunity at a ship. He's also better in coverage than Whitner and just as much of an enforcer. I think we all need to face the fact that this draft is going to be heavy as far as the secondary goes. If we have 15 picks, I'm expecting us to end up keeping 9 of them at least and half of those going to secondary players.

Which is why I can't see the Niners doing this. If you think 2013 is going to be a tough signing year for the team, 2014 will be MUCH worse. If we do replace Whitner, it would have to be a discount for a 1-year contract. Anything prorated to next year in a 2-year deal for 2014 would need to be extremely minimal. We would need to almost overpay to replace a starter with dead money for this season.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by GameOver:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'd rather have a rookie out of the draft playing SS than FS.

On another note, Adrian Wilson? Yikes, that guy hits like a freight train. Hits like Whitner, but he's 6'3", tall enough to guard those TE's. But, I think he's quite a few years older than Whitner.

He'd be a stop gap, hopefully at a cheaper rate than the 4 mill that we owe Whitner too. We'd just need him for a couple years, he'd be willing to take a price break because of his age and the opportunity at a ship. He's also better in coverage than Whitner and just as much of an enforcer. I think we all need to face the fact that this draft is going to be heavy as far as the secondary goes. If we have 15 picks, I'm expecting us to end up keeping 9 of them at least and half of those going to secondary players.

Which is why I can't see the Niners doing this. If you think 2013 is going to be a tough signing year for the team, 2014 will be MUCH worse. If we do replace Whitner, it would have to be a discount for a 1-year contract. Anything prorated to next year in a 2-year deal for 2014 would need to be extremely minimal. We would need to almost overpay to replace a starter with dead money for this season.

Fine by me, make it a cheap one year deal. Then we draft both a FS and SS (or a couple) and groom them to replace Wilson by 2014. The point is, Whitner is expendable and we have the draft picks to find the necessary replacements.
Originally posted by GameOver:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by GameOver:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'd rather have a rookie out of the draft playing SS than FS.

On another note, Adrian Wilson? Yikes, that guy hits like a freight train. Hits like Whitner, but he's 6'3", tall enough to guard those TE's. But, I think he's quite a few years older than Whitner.

He'd be a stop gap, hopefully at a cheaper rate than the 4 mill that we owe Whitner too. We'd just need him for a couple years, he'd be willing to take a price break because of his age and the opportunity at a ship. He's also better in coverage than Whitner and just as much of an enforcer. I think we all need to face the fact that this draft is going to be heavy as far as the secondary goes. If we have 15 picks, I'm expecting us to end up keeping 9 of them at least and half of those going to secondary players.

Which is why I can't see the Niners doing this. If you think 2013 is going to be a tough signing year for the team, 2014 will be MUCH worse. If we do replace Whitner, it would have to be a discount for a 1-year contract. Anything prorated to next year in a 2-year deal for 2014 would need to be extremely minimal. We would need to almost overpay to replace a starter with dead money for this season.

Fine by me, make it a cheap one year deal. Then we draft both a FS and SS (or a couple) and groom them to replace Wilson by 2014. The point is, Whitner is expendable and we have the draft picks to find the necessary replacements.

Dude Wilson is not going to do a cheap - NFL-vet-minimum cheap deal for one-year. Not gonna happen.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by GameOver:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by GameOver:
Originally posted by GNielsen:
I'd rather have a rookie out of the draft playing SS than FS.

On another note, Adrian Wilson? Yikes, that guy hits like a freight train. Hits like Whitner, but he's 6'3", tall enough to guard those TE's. But, I think he's quite a few years older than Whitner.

He'd be a stop gap, hopefully at a cheaper rate than the 4 mill that we owe Whitner too. We'd just need him for a couple years, he'd be willing to take a price break because of his age and the opportunity at a ship. He's also better in coverage than Whitner and just as much of an enforcer. I think we all need to face the fact that this draft is going to be heavy as far as the secondary goes. If we have 15 picks, I'm expecting us to end up keeping 9 of them at least and half of those going to secondary players.

Which is why I can't see the Niners doing this. If you think 2013 is going to be a tough signing year for the team, 2014 will be MUCH worse. If we do replace Whitner, it would have to be a discount for a 1-year contract. Anything prorated to next year in a 2-year deal for 2014 would need to be extremely minimal. We would need to almost overpay to replace a starter with dead money for this season.

Fine by me, make it a cheap one year deal. Then we draft both a FS and SS (or a couple) and groom them to replace Wilson by 2014. The point is, Whitner is expendable and we have the draft picks to find the necessary replacements.

Dude Wilson is not going to do a cheap - NFL-vet-minimum cheap deal for one-year. Not gonna happen.

I'd throw more than the vet minimum at him. If we're saving $4 million by cutting Whitner, I'd pay Wilson $2 mill and see if he bites. He could probably get more elsewhere but maybe he knows he's at the end of the tunnel and comes over. I wouldn't cut Whitner until we had him signed anyways so it's not like I'm saying, cut Whitner now and see what happens with Wilson. No no no, see if we can get something done with Wilson first.

Also, didn't Adrian play FS for the Cards for several years back? Back in the Nolan days maybe?
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by dyNASTYmode:
we obviously ability to draft a player who is cheaper and younger...but better?

which is why you go out on day two of free agency and sign a more than respectable safety. they are there, we have found diamonds in the rough before and I sure as hell will not lose sleep over losing goldson and will not miss his dumb ass penalties. breaking the bank for one player, renting a player for one year is not in the DNA of the coach or this front office. If you have not figured that out after two years, well i just do not know

dumb ass penalties? more like dumb ass rules(hitting a defenseless wr)...he strikes with his forearms, so to say he gets dumb ass helmet to helmet calls, well I just don't know. Stats are over rated, I look at the impact a player makes. QB pressures are just as effective as sacks, and the hits goldson applies are significant to when the wr is attempting to catch a ball later in the game, usually when it matters most.

I don't blame him asking for big bucks because it seems fans look over the fact that this game is still a business. He deserves at least good contract, Weddle money, because S get fined for the bs rules. I like to look at it this way, if your selling a something, a house or car whatever...your going to ask for more than its worth, the buyer counter offers with a lower number, and then the buyer/seller meet somewhere in the middle.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
I get the financial side of letting them walk, by why not sign a few mid level free agents, it seems to be what we do. We draft well, and look at the second and third tier free agents.
and i think that is exactly what we do again. i do not rule out a trade for percy harvin. but that is just a maybe in my opinion

I think Percy Harvin is a monster but how does this make sense...Trade for a player that wants Megatron money with draft picks when Baalke drafts well.
Originally posted by cciowa:
and i think that is exactly what we do again. i do not rule out a trade for percy harvin. but that is just a maybe in my opinion

Harvin would be a nice fit.
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
I think we find a way to bring RJF back. He could end up like a Ray McDonald for us. A backup who we developed for 4 years, re-signed in FA, then elevated into a starting role.

Right On
this
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by dyNASTYmode:

dumb ass penalties? more like dumb ass rules(hitting a defenseless wr)...he strikes with his forearms, so to say he gets dumb ass helmet to helmet calls, well I just don't know. Stats are over rated, I look at the impact a player makes. QB pressures are just as effective as sacks, and the hits goldson applies are significant to when the wr is attempting to catch a ball later in the game, usually when it matters most.

I don't blame him asking for big bucks because it seems fans look over the fact that this game is still a business. He deserves at least good contract, Weddle money, because S get fined for the bs rules. I like to look at it this way, if your selling a something, a house or car whatever...your going to ask for more than its worth, the buyer counter offers with a lower number, and then the buyer/seller meet somewhere in the middle.

I think Percy Harvin is a monster but how does this make sense...Trade for a player that wants Megatron money with draft picks when Baalke drafts well.
i am not going to blame the refs or the rules or the man in the grassy knoll for his dumb ass penalties. you can not take your helmet off , you can not dive in after a play is dead. that is just stupidity. in regards to harvin,, i said it was only a maybe
Personally I am terrified of having a rookie FS and Whitner covering the lid. Rookie safeties have a giant step to overcome to be ready for what Brady, Bress, Manning and the other elite quarterbacks will throw at them in schemes and disguises. Combined with Whitner being a complete liability in coverage I see our defense struggling mightily if it we can't generate more of a pass rush than late last season. In a perfect world I would cut Whitner, sign Goldson, draft an elite safety talent and hedge the bet with another veteran safety signing.
dyNastymode: "dumb ass penalties? more like dumb ass rules(hitting a defenseless wr)...he strikes with his forearms, so to say he gets dumb ass helmet to helmet calls, well I just don't know. Stats are over rated, I look at the impact a player makes."

A General Manager and a Head Coach have choices. They can sit there and cry about the rules or they can take a dispassionate look at what's going on and plan for the future. Goldson's game is blowing up receivers. Seven safeties had more interceptions. He's way down the list in passes defended and he's way down the list in total tackles. It's clear that what you call "dumb ass rules" are pretty much here to stay. Therefore, the team needs to move towards defensive backs who are good in tight coverage and the team needs to work on the pass rush. Goldson is not really a good cover guy and Sopoaga is not really a top rush the passer kind of guy. I think they can probably retain Sopoaga for a more realistic pay check, but Goldson has somehow gotten this idea that he is one of the top safeties in the league. According to the numbers, he's not. And if you want to use the standard of being an enforcer, that style of play is on its way out so that doesn't work as a standard either.
Originally posted by MntIdaGold:
Personally I am terrified of having a rookie FS and Whitner covering the lid. Rookie safeties have a giant step to overcome to be ready for what Brady, Bress, Manning and the other elite quarterbacks will throw at them in schemes and disguises. Combined with Whitner being a complete liability in coverage I see our defense struggling mightily if it we can't generate more of a pass rush than late last season. In a perfect world I would cut Whitner, sign Goldson, draft an elite safety talent and hedge the bet with another veteran safety signing.

Why do people have to keep pointing this out: The Niners won a Super Bowl with three rookies and one second year guy who had never started. There are at least five safeties in the league right now who stepped right in their rookie year and were productive. Yes, Whitner is not good in coverage. So, let's have a FS who is real good in coverage to make up for that.