Some offensive questions (Primarily about Vernon Davis)

For anyone, but especially for people that watch Coaches film... Is Vernon Davis a s**tty route runner? I know he has great linear speed, but he's not exactly very agile. I was watching playbook and they were showing coaches film of him running an out route and the route looked very rounded, it took him a few yards to break to the out. Do you think his not so great agility makes him a sucky route runner compared to other tight ends? He still gets open a lot probably because of his great speed, but I think he would be unstoppable with great route running. I'm just wondering.

Also, Vernon Davis's ball skills have dramatically improved over the last couple years. I'm wondering as to why we don't ever give him any jump ball opportunities in the red zone. He's 6'3 250 pounds with a 43 inch vertical. He should be able to box guys out and go up and get the ball like Tony Gonzalez, right? Or maybe his ball skills still aren't good enough?

And for that matter I'd like to see us let Crabtree and Moss 'Moss' some folks from time to time and catch over defenders when in situations where sometimes you just got to put it up and let your guy make a play.

I know throwing it up to a wide receiver isn't the safest bet and of course you want to throw to the open receivers but sometimes everyone is guarded and if you got a guy one on one with a defender you should take a shot and give your receiver the opportunity to make a play. I'm not saying to throw jump balls all day, just saying I hope this gets incorporated a little into the offense next year when the opportunities present themselves.

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
For anyone, but especially for people that watch Coaches film... Is Vernon Davis a s**tty route runner? I know he has great linear speed, but he's not exactly very agile. I was watching playbook and they were showing coaches film of him running an out route and the route looked very rounded, it took him a few yards to break to the out. Do you think his not so great agility makes him a sucky route runner compared to other tight ends? He still gets open a lot probably because of his great speed, but I think he would be unstoppable with great route running. I'm just wondering.

Also, Vernon Davis's ball skills have dramatically improved over the last couple years. I'm wondering as to why we don't ever give him any jump ball opportunities in the red zone. He's 6'3 250 pounds with a 43 inch vertical. He should be able to box guys out and go up and get the ball like Tony Gonzalez, right? Or maybe his ball skills still aren't good enough?

And for that matter I'd like to see us let Crabtree and Moss 'Moss' some folks from time to time and catch over defenders when in situations where sometimes you just got to put it up and let your guy make a play.

I know throwing it up to a wide receiver isn't the safest bet and of course you want to throw to the open receivers but sometimes everyone is guarded and if you got a guy one on one with a defender you should take a shot and give your receiver the opportunity to make a play. I'm not saying to throw jump balls all day, just saying I hope this gets incorporated a little into the offense next year when the opportunities present themselves.

It seems to be the only way he gets extra steps on defenders. Either there is some broken coverage, he is singled and outruns his defender, or if it is close, it is perfect ball placement by the QB. Not knocking him, but I never thought route running was a strength of his. If it were, he would easily be a 70 + catch TE every year.

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
For anyone, but especially for people that watch Coaches film... Is Vernon Davis a s**tty route runner? I know he has great linear speed, but he's not exactly very agile. I was watching playbook and they were showing coaches film of him running an out route and the route looked very rounded, it took him a few yards to break to the out. Do you think his not so great agility makes him a sucky route runner compared to other tight ends? He still gets open a lot probably because of his great speed, but I think he would be unstoppable with great route running. I'm just wondering.

Also, Vernon Davis's ball skills have dramatically improved over the last couple years. I'm wondering as to why we don't ever give him any jump ball opportunities in the red zone. He's 6'3 250 pounds with a 43 inch vertical. He should be able to box guys out and go up and get the ball like Tony Gonzalez, right? Or maybe his ball skills still aren't good enough?

And for that matter I'd like to see us let Crabtree and Moss 'Moss' some folks from time to time and catch over defenders when in situations where sometimes you just got to put it up and let your guy make a play.

I know throwing it up to a wide receiver isn't the safest bet and of course you want to throw to the open receivers but sometimes everyone is guarded and if you got a guy one on one with a defender you should take a shot and give your receiver the opportunity to make a play. I'm not saying to throw jump balls all day, just saying I hope this gets incorporated a little into the offense next year when the opportunities present themselves.

He's never been a very good route runner, he's been all straightline speed, get a step on the defender, make the catch and go. This is one more reason why I want the 49ers to draft a more traditional TE to play the #2 role next season, someone who excels at running routes, finds weak spots in the zone, is a reliable high-yield target for when things break down.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
He's never been a very good route runner, he's been all straightline speed, get a step on the defender, make the catch and go. This is one more reason why I want the 49ers to draft a more traditional TE to play the #2 role next season, someone who excels at running routes, finds weak spots in the zone, is a reliable high-yield target for when things break down.

I think the people who can see this are on board for drafting a solid TE that can catch and block. Those who don't are comfortable with Delanie Walker as the no. 2.

Vernon definitely does not run the best routes, but keep in mind that much of the time he is covered by a linebacker in man coverage. In those cases he is simply trying to get position on the defender where Kap can get the ball to him. More precise routes are necessary when you have zone coverage. Also, much of the route running depends on the QB comfort zone with the receiver.

Yeah, also he has never really been in a pass oriented offense. I believe if he were on the Saints or Patriots he could put up 1500 yards receiving. He's better than Gronkowski and Graham in my opinion, well at least more talented.

He's huge. A guy that big isn't going to make sharp cuts like smaller guys do. His skill is pulling away from defenders.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
He's huge. A guy that big isn't going to make sharp cuts like smaller guys do. His skill is pulling away from defenders.

Yeah. I think he has definitley gotten better with his route running as his career has gone on though. When he first came into the league he was very bulky. He slimmed down a little bit a couple years ago and perhaps that has helped him a bit.

i find these questions very offensive.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
He's huge. A guy that big isn't going to make sharp cuts like smaller guys do. His skill is pulling away from defenders.

Bingo! Vernon still has a lot of room for improvement. He'll be unstoppable once he meshes with CK and he can work on his route running.

Originally posted by Garcia:
i find these questions very offensive.

lol

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
For anyone, but especially for people that watch Coaches film... Is Vernon Davis a s**tty route runner? I know he has great linear speed, but he's not exactly very agile. I was watching playbook and they were showing coaches film of him running an out route and the route looked very rounded, it took him a few yards to break to the out. Do you think his not so great agility makes him a sucky route runner compared to other tight ends? He still gets open a lot probably because of his great speed, but I think he would be unstoppable with great route running. I'm just wondering.

Also, Vernon Davis's ball skills have dramatically improved over the last couple years. I'm wondering as to why we don't ever give him any jump ball opportunities in the red zone. He's 6'3 250 pounds with a 43 inch vertical. He should be able to box guys out and go up and get the ball like Tony Gonzalez, right? Or maybe his ball skills still aren't good enough?

And for that matter I'd like to see us let Crabtree and Moss 'Moss' some folks from time to time and catch over defenders when in situations where sometimes you just got to put it up and let your guy make a play.

I know throwing it up to a wide receiver isn't the safest bet and of course you want to throw to the open receivers but sometimes everyone is guarded and if you got a guy one on one with a defender you should take a shot and give your receiver the opportunity to make a play. I'm not saying to throw jump balls all day, just saying I hope this gets incorporated a little into the offense next year when the opportunities present themselves.

As a coach I categorized players in two ways. Football players and athletes. Vernon is more athlete than football player. He has improved at a player but there are still holes in his game when it come to being a receiver. His blocking is excellent and his hands have gotten much better but yes his routes are not all that great and he plays on the ground and rarely leaves his feet to catch a ball.

I think the lack of jump balls is more of a product of the type of offense. Its more of a west coast, timing route concept than the jump ball type. Plus our receivers don't really fit that mold. Moss maybe but with age we have seen less of that from him.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
He's never been a very good route runner, he's been all straightline speed, get a step on the defender, make the catch and go. This is one more reason why I want the 49ers to draft a more traditional TE to play the #2 role next season, someone who excels at running routes, finds weak spots in the zone, is a reliable high-yield target for when things break down.

I think the people who can see this are on board for drafting a solid TE that can catch and block. Those who don't are comfortable with Delanie Walker as the no. 2.

Meh. Ill take VD and DWalk's ability to line up anywhere on the field and create a mismatch over a "traditional" TE. Having TEs who can really stretch the field play a big part in what we do in the run and passing game.


I dont like Delanie's drops this year but versatility is key to being one step ahead on offense

Even early college scouting reports said he did not have the agility and fluidity in his hips that a good route runner needs. Also, for the first 4 or 5 years, he seemed to be blind to the open spots in the defense created by zone coverages and blitzes. He still doesn't seem to do this well. He is a great blocker and sneaks out well to beat LB coverages but he is not the hot read target that allows the QB to release the ball quickly on a blitz.

I agree with someone else; the 49ers should let Walker go and draft a TE that can make those reads and get into those open areas. The 49er passing game is incomplete until they get that TE and a speed receiver that is a legit deep threat. ("AJ Jenkins, white courtesy phone.")

for those that say vernon davis isnt good at this or isnt natural at that. 1.) you should realize he was tied for most tds by a tightend.2.) he had THECATCH 3
so leave him alone. hes f**king good. so Go watch schlereth or something