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49ers Offense -- The Pistol portion -- Explained by Chris Ault on NFLN

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Even at the expense of our QB's health and longevity?

Winning is first
Health and longevity are second
HOF is third at best

I don't think the Pistol formation is in itself harmful to a QB's health and longevity.
Dumbing down an offense to suit the backup is poor way to build a winning offense.


Dumbing down? There is nothing more rudimentary than the Pistol/Read option. It's why these young QB's are able to have so much early success. The problem is that it is their physical ability that is enabling them to beat the defense. Once they slow down and the threat of the run is gone, it will be much harder for them to pass. Which is why I prefer pocket passing QB's. Their longevity is much longer, and their ceiling is much higher, because even though they will age, they get smarter over time, and can still win games with their instincts and experience.

This is not a knock on Colin. I think he has all of the ability to have a long career as a pocket passer. But Harbaugh is not forcing him to do that. He's actually doing the opposite, he even said so (that he wouldn't change his mechanics, try to change him, etc). So, eventually, this style of play is going to catch up to him. The Niners are selling their souls a little bit for this championship. I'm happy that we're winning, but in the back of my mind I keep thinking that this is just not sustainable, Kaep is going to get killed, and then we're going to be back at square one.
  • Jcool
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Bryan Fischer ‏@BryanDFischer

Great stuff here from @BFeldmanCBS on the origins of The Pistol:http://bit.ly/ToKhuq
[ Edited by Jcool on Jan 23, 2013 at 7:02 PM ]
Originally posted by Furlow:
Dumbing down? There is nothing more rudimentary than the Pistol/Read option. It's why these young QB's are able to have so much early success. The problem is that it is their physical ability that is enabling them to beat the defense. Once they slow down and the threat of the run is gone, it will be much harder for them to pass. Which is why I prefer pocket passing QB's. Their longevity is much longer, and their ceiling is much higher, because even though they will age, they get smarter over time, and can still win games with their instincts and experience.

This is not a knock on Colin. I think he has all of the ability to have a long career as a pocket passer. But Harbaugh is not forcing him to do that. He's actually doing the opposite, he even said so (that he wouldn't change his mechanics, try to change him, etc). So, eventually, this style of play is going to catch up to him. The Niners are selling their souls a little bit for this championship. I'm happy that we're winning, but in the back of my mind I keep thinking that this is just not sustainable, Kaep is going to get killed, and then we're going to be back at square one.

I'll trade their soul for a championship and I don't want Harbaugh to force Kaepernick to do anything that might cost the Niners a game at this point.
Dumbing down wasn't really what I meant. I mean that Kaepernick is a unique talent and if that means a backup can't run the playbook that Kaepernick runs so be it.
Kaepernick averages about 7 runs per game, he ran twice in the last game, we'll see how much he runs next year after the offseason.
I have to ask you, Furlow, please be honest. Would you rather have Alex Smith as the 49ers quarterback? It seems that was the case as recently as a few weeks ago.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Isn't this awesome, we run an offense that was specifically engineered for Kaepernick. We are not trying to put a QB who has similar skills into the system. Kaep literally has this system mastered. He doesn't just operated the system well, he IS the system.

What some don't understand is how difficult it is to make the smart read on that end or 2nd level LB and pull that ball or hand it off. A split second is the difference between scoring a 50+ yard TD or only gaining 5 yards.

Some maybe.....the rest of us learned it in highschool
Originally posted by Joecool:
The biggest factor in all of this is that we don't have a gimmick QB.


That is the big thing....

You treat the 49ers offense as a gimmick....and he can throw the ball like Dan Marino
It seems that most of the time the hits QBs get in the pocket are uglier than the ones they take when they are proctively running around. A mobile QB can avoid the hit, or at least decide how to take it. Or they can slide or run out of bounds. The hits they take after releasing the ball are usually not as bad and they avoid the dreaded head bouncing off the turf problem.

In the pocket the QB is often blindsided or gets all twisted up.

I think a mobile and aware QB is actually safer when on the move.
Originally posted by FlayvaMeister:
I had to run out to the store ... while I was walking, I thought about this part of your post. Then I started to think about this:

"Walsh began his pro coaching career in 1966 as an assistant with the AFL's Oakland Raiders. As a Raider assistant,
Walsh was <em style="line-height: 1.3em;">trained in the vertical passing offense favored by Al Davis, putting Walsh in Davis's mentor Sid Gillman's </em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">coaching tree. </em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">
</em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">In 1968, </em><em style="line-height: 1.3em;">Walsh moved to the AFL expansion Cincinnati Bengals, joining the staff of legendary coach Paul Brown. It was </em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">there that Walsh </em><em style="line-height: 1.3em;">developed the philosophy now known as the "West Coast Offense", as a matter of necessity. Cincinnati's </em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">new quarterback, Virgil </em><em style="line-height: 1.3em;">Carter, was known for his great mobility and accuracy but lacked a strong arm necessary to throw </em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">deep passes. </em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">
</em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">Thus, Walsh </em><em style="line-height: 1.3em;">modified the vertical passing scheme he had learned during his time with the Raiders, designing a horizontal </em>
<em style="line-height: 1.3em;">passing system that </em><em style="line-height: 1.3em;">relied on quick, short throws - often spreading the ball across the entire width of the field".</em>

So forward to the present and beyond ... just as Bill Walsh was forced to alter the offensive philosophies he learned which
morphed into The WCO, could our altered version of Ault's Pistol -- learned by G-Ro, and then altered by he and Harbaugh --
become this generation of 49ers WCO ?

Just curious ...

Walsh's first QB in Cincy had a rocket arm, but got hurt. NFLN did a segment on "the best quarterback who never was"

Kap had 11 yards per attempt. In an NFC championship game. Wow
Originally posted by Furlow:
So what happens if Kaep gets hurt, or in 3-4 years when he slows down? Do we just draft another Kaepernick?


He has a big enough arm to sit in the pocket
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
I have to ask you, Furlow, please be honest. Would you rather have Alex Smith as the 49ers quarterback? It seems that was the case as recently as a few weeks ago.

Wrong thread.
Originally posted by Furlow:
Wrong thread.


You could have saved yourself some typing with either a two or a three letter reply. Will you answer me if I ask you in another thread? If so, please tell me where to post the question.
  • Jcool
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Bryan Fischer ‏@BryanDFischer

So the 'Wildcat' offense and the read option are close cousins, according to SportsCenter. Got it.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Walsh's first QB in Cincy had a rocket arm, but got hurt. NFLN did a segment on "the best quarterback who never was"

Kap had 11 yards per attempt. In an NFC championship game. Wow

Greg Cook, awesome talent and potential, shoulder injury ruined his career.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/greg-cook-the-story-of-an-n-f-l-shooting-star/


His absence essentially precipitated the basics of the WCO as Walsh had to re-design the offense around a QB with a weaker arm, an offense that was more controlled and methodical.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 25, 2013 at 10:57 PM ]
There must be something Kaep looks for when eyes the end defender be it a LB or DE. Wonder if he queues off the DEs belt buckle or something because he doesn't miss a beat on his decision.
Originally posted by Godsleftsock:
Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by Rodinxxv:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Also, what's up with Kaep faking the handoff to the right when the RB goes to the left? Why even fake? Is Kaep doing it wrong?
I'm pretty sure sure Gore is making a mistake. Gore has never run this type of offense.


And regardless who's gettting it wrong (probably Gore), you could see it was still freezing DL/LBs for that split-second. Since Gore is lined up behind Kaep, and with Kaep being so tall, it's hard for the D to see Gore anyway...so I'm betting all they really can see is Kaep looking like he's going to handoff, so they have to hold. But yeah, would be optimal if fake did go to the same side as RB.

Pass blocking assignment > play fake

Havent read the whole thread yet so it might have been mentioned but I just want to be the crazy as a fox person once: could faking to the wrong side have helped us? With how many times we did it... Is it POSSIBLE that it was on purpose? Most likely it wasn't but still. He fakes to the wrong side, our line and Kap is so big that the linebackers can't get a clear view of what's going on. They move a little towards the spot where Kap faked, keeping their attention to see if Gore got it and then boom, all of a sudden Gore is heading in the opposite direction and through the open hole, where he can make a catch and get going.

Again, most likely it was just on accident but as the poster above mentioned it DID freeze the LB still.