Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by diegosydney:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by diegosydney:
Optimism isn't necesarily the same as "the second coming"

I have cause for optimism with Kaep I never had with Smith, and if getting closer to a SB win doesn't count for anything i guess you'd be just as happy with 1-15.

How optimistic were you with with what you saw after Smith's first 10 starts ?

If you are going to continue this ridiculous and divisive argument, perhaps you could contrast the two teams and their coaching staff. Otherwise your question is meaningless.

It's not a ridiculous argument to be optimistic because one guy got the team further than the other despite not having anywhere near the same amount of experience, and nowhere near the amount of support from the Defense and Special Teams.

It is ironic that at the end of the Super Bowl, just as at the end of the NFCC game last season, the QB struggled due to a lack of available quality pass receivers.

Yes, the secondary defense and STs were bad this season but the offensive struggles often revolved around that lack of quality receivers.

Crabtree: 100 yards
Vernon: 100 yards
Kaep: 300 yards


You couldn't be more wrong.

0-7 in the redzone
2-9 on 3rd down
46.1 Total QBR

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.....

46.1 QBR?? No wonder the Alex haters weren't bringing that up...

Can't recall the article but it was said those last 3 plays dropped his QBR by 20 or so points due to how critical that possession was in the game. So, overall, he played very well.

Either way, dj's comment was the lack of quality receivers which is false if you look at the drives and the stats. The main issue was Colin missing on two critical plays, the scramble mis-throw to Crabtree early in the game and the last fade throw.

It wasn't the receivers.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by diegosydney:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by diegosydney:
Optimism isn't necesarily the same as "the second coming"

I have cause for optimism with Kaep I never had with Smith, and if getting closer to a SB win doesn't count for anything i guess you'd be just as happy with 1-15.

How optimistic were you with with what you saw after Smith's first 10 starts ?

If you are going to continue this ridiculous and divisive argument, perhaps you could contrast the two teams and their coaching staff. Otherwise your question is meaningless.

It's not a ridiculous argument to be optimistic because one guy got the team further than the other despite not having anywhere near the same amount of experience, and nowhere near the amount of support from the Defense and Special Teams.

It is ironic that at the end of the Super Bowl, just as at the end of the NFCC game last season, the QB struggled due to a lack of available quality pass receivers.

Yes, the secondary defense and STs were bad this season but the offensive struggles often revolved around that lack of quality receivers.

Crabtree: 100 yards
Vernon: 100 yards
Kaep: 300 yards


You couldn't be more wrong.

0-7 in the redzone
2-9 on 3rd down
46.1 Total QBR

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.....

46.1 QBR?? No wonder the Alex haters weren't bringing that up...

Can't recall the article but it was said those last 3 plays dropped his QBR by 20 or so points due to how critical that possession was in the game. So, overall, he played very well.

Either way, dj's comment was the lack of quality receivers which is false if you look at the drives and the stats. The main issue was Colin missing on two critical plays, the scramble mis-throw to Crabtree early in the game and the last fade throw.

It wasn't the receivers.

cant imagine what the outcry would be on this board had alex smith missed 3 passing attempts from the 5 yard line and niners lost the superbowl

http://screen.yahoo.com/sports-friends-alex-smith-colin-000000128.html;_ylt=AgjbU0ajFyJz47wKBS3W5guni0Qv;_ylu=X3oDMTNjbHBncDNzBG1pdANSZWxhdGVkIFZpZGVvcyBMb25nIGxpc3QgVVBQIDIEcGtnA2MzNTY5NGUwLWYxZDgtM2Q5Ni05MDU0LTgxYjFhZDljNDY5MgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDcmVsYXRlZF92aWRlb3NfY2EEdmVyAw--;_ylg=X3oDMTFoOTlpZTNlBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdAMEcHQDdmlkLWdhbGxlcnk-;_ylv=3

Originally posted by hofer36:

cant imagine what the outcry would be on this board had alex smith missed 3 passing attempts from the 5 yard line and niners lost the superbowl

Not this crap again.

Originally posted by Furlow:

46.1 QBR?? No wonder the Alex haters weren't bringing that up...

I really want the word "haters" banned from the board. It is nothing more than a blanketed label that people use for others who have differing opinions. It's annoying.

30 more days...






Until Alex is no longer a niner!

Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:

Originally posted by hofer36:
cant imagine what the outcry would be on this board had alex smith missed 3 passing attempts from the 5 yard line and niners lost the superbowl

Not this crap again.

Why is that crap?

Originally posted by hofer36:
cant imagine what the outcry would be on this board had alex smith missed 3 passing attempts from the 5 yard line and niners lost the superbowl

alex would never have us in that position so the point is moot.

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Why is that crap?

Hmm...

1) Alex Smith has played 80 games. The starter has played 10. The expectations for Smith are higher as he has more experience and should not make the same inexperienced mistakes a 1st year starter would. Some here seem to struggle with this. If the current starter is in his 8th year and can't throw a fade or goes 1-15 on 3rd down I will bet my life savings that he will be critiqued just as harshly or even worse than Smith has.

2) Out of the 3 passes, one was a clear hold and the other was a drop by Crabs. I would love to hear the excuses if Smith was in this situation.

3) Smith would not have had us 5 yards from winning a Super Bowl.

4) The poster I responded to has had a hard time dealing with Smith being benched.

Originally posted by SJniner7:

30 more days...






Until Alex is no longer a niner!

You don't know this, so don't post it.

And as a general comment I am quite happy to move to Plan B which is anyone who cannot post with class on the subject gets an ongoing suspension until the Smith situation is resolved.

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:

Originally posted by hofer36:
cant imagine what the outcry would be on this board had alex smith missed 3 passing attempts from the 5 yard line and niners lost the superbowl

Not this crap again.

Why is that crap?

because he doesnt like anything he thinks reflects poorly on kaepernick -apparentlyit is like touching an exposed nerve
and the funny thing is im not being crticial of kaepernick at all--he brought the niners back in the game...im pointing out that prior criticsm of smith derives from a different standard than how kaepernick is viewed

Originally posted by SJniner7:
30 more days...






Until Alex is no longer a niner!

He's still under contract...You're PROBABLY right...but with Baalke, I wouldn't want to bet.

Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:

Originally posted by aTx49er:
Why is that crap?

Hmm...

1) Alex Smith has played 80 games. The starter has played 10. The expectations for Smith are higher as he has more experience and should not make the same inexperienced mistakes a 1st year starter would. Some here seem to struggle with this. If the current starter is in his 8th year and can't throw a fade or goes 1-15 on 3rd down I will bet my life savings that he will be critiqued just as harshly or even worse than Smith has.

2) Out of the 3 passes, one was a clear hold and the other was a drop by Crabs. I would love to hear the excuses if Smith was in this situation.

3) Smith would not have had us 5 yards from winning a Super Bowl.

4) The poster I responded to has had a hard time dealing with Smith being benched.

ironic you say "I would love to hear the excuses if Smith was in this situation", such comments being preceeded by excuses for kaerpnick i.e. a drop by crabs (at the 2 yard line--if caught it wouldnt have made a difference, a clear hold (on a pass that was arguably uncatchable as it was out of bounds)--

as for #4 you obviously have a hard time dealing with any criticsm of kaerpernick--when his play is lacking it is fair to note that, whether you can bear it or not---kaerpnick froze on the 2nd down play and did not get rid of the ball quickly enough--that is a fact whteher he has 8 year expereince or 10 games experience

as for whether smith would have had niners within 5 years, i'll offer the same response you did to those who said that niners would have won if smith had been playing--no one can say for certain

Originally posted by hofer36:

ironic you say "I would love to hear the excuses if Smith was in this situation", such comments being preceeded by excuses for kaerpnick i.e. a drop by crabs (at the 2 yard line--if caught it wouldnt have made a difference, a clear hold (on a pass that was arguably uncatchable as it was out of bounds)--

as for #4 you obviously have a hard time dealing with any criticsm of kaerpernick--when his play is lacking it is fair to note that, whether you can bear it or not---kaerpnick froze on the 2nd down play and did not get rid of the ball quickly enough--that is a fact whteher he has 8 year expereince or 10 games experience

as for whether smith would have had niners within 5 years, i'll offer the same response you did to those who said that niners would have won if smith had been playing--no one can say for certain

I don't have a hard time dealing with criticism of Kaepernick. There are things he needs to improve on. But to compare his criticism to what Alex gets makes no sense. Experience is paramount. I'm really tired of hearing the "Alex would have..." or the "If Alex..." It is crap. Kaep's mistakes were based on EXPERIENCE. Why is this so hard for you and some others to understand? We get to a play away from winning the Super Bowl and you're talking about what the backup (who was benched btw) could have done? Laughable.

Smith would not have gotten us this far. Smith would have won shootouts against the Packers, Falcons and Ravens while being down 17 and 22 points in two of those games? C'mon!

You can point out areas where he needs to improve, sure. But when you criticize him about plays where clearly his inexperience was to blame and then compare that to an 8 year vet you lose credibility.

You're just going to have to deal with the fact that Smith is no longer the starter and will likely be moved.

Originally posted by hofer36:

because he doesnt like anything he thinks reflects poorly on kaepernick -apparentlyit is like touching an exposed nerve
and the funny thing is im not being crticial of kaepernick at all--he brought the niners back in the game...im pointing out that prior criticsm of smith derives from a different standard than how kaepernick is viewed

That standard is experience! Being critical is one thing. Comparing the level of criticism of a 1st year starter who got us to 5 yards away from a Championship to a guy who has been poor for 75% of his 8 year career is unfathomable.