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Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by diegosydney:
Optimism isn't necesarily the same as "the second coming"

I have cause for optimism with Kaep I never had with Smith, and if getting closer to a SB win doesn't count for anything i guess you'd be just as happy with 1-15.

How optimistic were you with with what you saw after Smith's first 10 starts ?

If you are going to continue this ridiculous and divisive argument, perhaps you could contrast the two teams and their coaching staff. Otherwise your question is meaningless.

It's not a ridiculous argument to be optimistic because one guy got the team further than the other despite not having anywhere near the same amount of experience, and nowhere near the amount of support from the Defense and Special Teams.
Originally posted by English:
If you are going to continue this ridiculous and divisive argument, perhaps you could contrast the two teams and their coaching staff. Otherwise your question is meaningless.

Having a crappy team has nothing to do with it. Even in crappy situations there can be cause for optimism. I was optimistic after Smith's 2nd year even though the team was not good as he had improved over the 1st year.
  • pd24
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Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Yes the D played worse but a bad 9er D is still better than most D's on a good day. Being that we have been very slow on O to start games the past few weeks....the blame falls on both sides of the ball. If the O was playing the first half like they have played the 2nd half the score would be much different.

We've started slow on offense for a long time now. That is nothing new. We haven't been known as an offensive team since T.O. This year towards the end of the half, the scores weren't 10-7 or 13-6 or 7-0.

We had to turn on the juice to come back in a lot of games where the D was lost. We were more explosive when called upon. When we needed that against Giants and Minn, it was no where to be found. We were left with interceptions, sacks and fumbles. We never even got close because our D couldn't stop anything.

Giving up a 31-3 lead, down 17-0 to ATL, and a back and forth battle with Aaron Rogers and we were never out of it except for Seattle. And as bad as that Seattle game was, it was still better then four of Smith's starts (Jets, Giants, Minn and Seatte).
If we are supposed to be more explosive with Keap than we shouldn't be down every week.

How is a Smith win worse than a Keap loss?


If by more explosive you mean that we had the number 1 scoring and yardage offense in the post season and were top 5 in the regular season during Kaeps starts, you are right. It doesn't matter when you score aslong as you do score. Ck provided alot more plays down field, our passing offense and rushing was more explosive. They started slow on the road to the number 1 seed in the NFC, the defense was giving up deep balls like never before and the offense scored enough to come back and win. The Packers game wasn't a slow start, sure we went down 7 early, but it was a shoot out and we converted more than the Packers and blew them out. The Pats game and the Bears games were not slow starts either. Smith started slow against the Vikings and didn't recover, started slow against the Giants and didn't recover, started slow against the Rams and left the game down 14-7. The first Rams game Kaep came in cold and led the team to a 17 point 4th qtr and in FG position a few times, the second Rams game, he threw a perfect pass to Walker for a TD and it was dropped, he took them down the field in less than 1 min and had a score on the board to go to OT.
Didn't we have the #1 offense(total yards) and the #1 defense in the NFL at one point? I could be wrong here. But just thought I'd share this from a while ago.

The Niners have outscored their opponents 79-3 in the last two games. That's basically 10 points for every 15 minutes of football. And it's not the defense putting the offense in prime position to score, either, though they've undoubtedly done their part; the offense has piled up exactly 1,000 yards, or 125 yards per quarter, in the last two games.

Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of the offense's relentless production is exactly how it's going about it.

As you probably know by now, San Francisco became the first team in NFL history to gain 300 yards passing and rushing in the same game. With 310 of the former and 311 of the latter on Sunday, the 49ers offense executed 60 minutes of the most efficient, balanced football we've ever seen.

Aside from a Colin Kaepernick fumble and a couple big-play-negating penalties, it was acomplete masterpiece.

One that will be replicated next week? Unlikely. But what it does do for this offense, aside from putting the rest of the NFL on notice, is offer a first-hand look at what it is capable of.

When the defense brings its A-game—which is basically every week—and the offense performs like this, the competition just can't keep up.

Cornerbacks and safeties can no longer stack the box to stuff the 49ers running game. Instead, they're forced to respect the deep pass; something that, before Weeks 4 and 5, the coaching staff had elected not to fully unleash.

Now, they'll have to respect it more than ever. The 49ers are already piling up a league-high 195.8 rushing yards per game and are on pace for more than 3,100 rushing yards over a 16-game season.

The most rushing first downs Frank Gore has ever accounted for in a season is 68, which happened in 2006. Through five games, he has 25 and is on pace to move the chains 80 times via the ground and pound. Conveniently enough, Gore's 5.4 yards-per-carry average in 2012 is exactly the average he finished with in that '06 season in which he rushed for 1,695 yards and earned Second-Team All-Pro honors as a result.

Then you've got Kendall Hunter, who is averaging 40 yards per game, and, like Gore, 5.4 yards per carry.

The 49ers are indeed so uniquely balanced that Smith (107) and Kaepernick (106) have nearly identical rushing totals—each averaging well over five yards per carry. Their combined 213 rushing yards are more than any one QB's total in the NFL not named Robert Griffin III. Yep, that's more than Cam Newton (209 yds) and even former 2,000-yard rusher Chris Johnson (210) through five games.


  • pd24
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Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Didn't we have the #1 offense(total yards) and the #1 defense in the NFL at one point? I could be wrong here. But just thought I'd share this from a while ago.

The Niners have outscored their opponents 79-3 in the last two games. That's basically 10 points for every 15 minutes of football. And it's not the defense putting the offense in prime position to score, either, though they've undoubtedly done their part; the offense has piled up exactly 1,000 yards, or 125 yards per quarter, in the last two games.

Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of the offense's relentless production is exactly how it's going about it.

As you probably know by now, San Francisco became the first team in NFL history to gain 300 yards passing and rushing in the same game. With 310 of the former and 311 of the latter on Sunday, the 49ers offense executed 60 minutes of the most efficient, balanced football we've ever seen.

Aside from a Colin Kaepernick fumble and a couple big-play-negating penalties, it was acomplete masterpiece.

One that will be replicated next week? Unlikely. But what it does do for this offense, aside from putting the rest of the NFL on notice, is offer a first-hand look at what it is capable of.

When the defense brings its A-game—which is basically every week—and the offense performs like this, the competition just can't keep up.

Cornerbacks and safeties can no longer stack the box to stuff the 49ers running game. Instead, they're forced to respect the deep pass; something that, before Weeks 4 and 5, the coaching staff had elected not to fully unleash.

Now, they'll have to respect it more than ever. The 49ers are already piling up a league-high 195.8 rushing yards per game and are on pace for more than 3,100 rushing yards over a 16-game season.

The most rushing first downs Frank Gore has ever accounted for in a season is 68, which happened in 2006. Through five games, he has 25 and is on pace to move the chains 80 times via the ground and pound. Conveniently enough, Gore's 5.4 yards-per-carry average in 2012 is exactly the average he finished with in that '06 season in which he rushed for 1,695 yards and earned Second-Team All-Pro honors as a result.

Then you've got Kendall Hunter, who is averaging 40 yards per game, and, like Gore, 5.4 yards per carry.

The 49ers are indeed so uniquely balanced that Smith (107) and Kaepernick (106) have nearly identical rushing totals—each averaging well over five yards per carry. Their combined 213 rushing yards are more than any one QB's total in the NFL not named Robert Griffin III. Yep, that's more than Cam Newton (209 yds) and even former 2,000-yard rusher Chris Johnson (210) through five games.



With Smith the team averaged 23.6ppg, that was around 12 or 13 in the NFL, with Kaep the team averaged 26.2ppg that was around top 5 in the NFL. In the post season the team was #1 in yardage and scoring at 34ppg.
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Didn't we have the #1 offense(total yards) and the #1 defense in the NFL at one point? I could be wrong here. But just thought I'd share this from a while ago.

The Niners have outscored their opponents 79-3 in the last two games. That's basically 10 points for every 15 minutes of football. And it's not the defense putting the offense in prime position to score, either, though they've undoubtedly done their part; the offense has piled up exactly 1,000 yards, or 125 yards per quarter, in the last two games.

Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of the offense's relentless production is exactly how it's going about it.

As you probably know by now, San Francisco became the first team in NFL history to gain 300 yards passing and rushing in the same game. With 310 of the former and 311 of the latter on Sunday, the 49ers offense executed 60 minutes of the most efficient, balanced football we've ever seen.

Aside from a Colin Kaepernick fumble and a couple big-play-negating penalties, it was acomplete masterpiece.

One that will be replicated next week? Unlikely. But what it does do for this offense, aside from putting the rest of the NFL on notice, is offer a first-hand look at what it is capable of.

When the defense brings its A-game—which is basically every week—and the offense performs like this, the competition just can't keep up.

Cornerbacks and safeties can no longer stack the box to stuff the 49ers running game. Instead, they're forced to respect the deep pass; something that, before Weeks 4 and 5, the coaching staff had elected not to fully unleash.

Now, they'll have to respect it more than ever. The 49ers are already piling up a league-high 195.8 rushing yards per game and are on pace for more than 3,100 rushing yards over a 16-game season.

The most rushing first downs Frank Gore has ever accounted for in a season is 68, which happened in 2006. Through five games, he has 25 and is on pace to move the chains 80 times via the ground and pound. Conveniently enough, Gore's 5.4 yards-per-carry average in 2012 is exactly the average he finished with in that '06 season in which he rushed for 1,695 yards and earned Second-Team All-Pro honors as a result.

Then you've got Kendall Hunter, who is averaging 40 yards per game, and, like Gore, 5.4 yards per carry.

The 49ers are indeed so uniquely balanced that Smith (107) and Kaepernick (106) have nearly identical rushing totals—each averaging well over five yards per carry. Their combined 213 rushing yards are more than any one QB's total in the NFL not named Robert Griffin III. Yep, that's more than Cam Newton (209 yds) and even former 2,000-yard rusher Chris Johnson (210) through five games.


With Smith the team averaged 23.6ppg, that was around 12 or 13 in the NFL, with Kaep the team averaged 26.2ppg that was around top 5 in the NFL. In the post season the team was #1 in yardage and scoring at 34ppg.


Did we have any Defensive scoing for eiher qb? Did the special teams contribute any scoring for either qb? I didn't take the time to look it up but would like to know that as well in as far as comparing total points scored.
  • pd24
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Originally posted by rk1642:
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Didn't we have the #1 offense(total yards) and the #1 defense in the NFL at one point? I could be wrong here. But just thought I'd share this from a while ago.

The Niners have outscored their opponents 79-3 in the last two games. That's basically 10 points for every 15 minutes of football. And it's not the defense putting the offense in prime position to score, either, though they've undoubtedly done their part; the offense has piled up exactly 1,000 yards, or 125 yards per quarter, in the last two games.

Perhaps the most remarkable aspect of the offense's relentless production is exactly how it's going about it.

As you probably know by now, San Francisco became the first team in NFL history to gain 300 yards passing and rushing in the same game. With 310 of the former and 311 of the latter on Sunday, the 49ers offense executed 60 minutes of the most efficient, balanced football we've ever seen.

Aside from a Colin Kaepernick fumble and a couple big-play-negating penalties, it was acomplete masterpiece.

One that will be replicated next week? Unlikely. But what it does do for this offense, aside from putting the rest of the NFL on notice, is offer a first-hand look at what it is capable of.

When the defense brings its A-game—which is basically every week—and the offense performs like this, the competition just can't keep up.

Cornerbacks and safeties can no longer stack the box to stuff the 49ers running game. Instead, they're forced to respect the deep pass; something that, before Weeks 4 and 5, the coaching staff had elected not to fully unleash.

Now, they'll have to respect it more than ever. The 49ers are already piling up a league-high 195.8 rushing yards per game and are on pace for more than 3,100 rushing yards over a 16-game season.

The most rushing first downs Frank Gore has ever accounted for in a season is 68, which happened in 2006. Through five games, he has 25 and is on pace to move the chains 80 times via the ground and pound. Conveniently enough, Gore's 5.4 yards-per-carry average in 2012 is exactly the average he finished with in that '06 season in which he rushed for 1,695 yards and earned Second-Team All-Pro honors as a result.

Then you've got Kendall Hunter, who is averaging 40 yards per game, and, like Gore, 5.4 yards per carry.

The 49ers are indeed so uniquely balanced that Smith (107) and Kaepernick (106) have nearly identical rushing totals—each averaging well over five yards per carry. Their combined 213 rushing yards are more than any one QB's total in the NFL not named Robert Griffin III. Yep, that's more than Cam Newton (209 yds) and even former 2,000-yard rusher Chris Johnson (210) through five games.


With Smith the team averaged 23.6ppg, that was around 12 or 13 in the NFL, with Kaep the team averaged 26.2ppg that was around top 5 in the NFL. In the post season the team was #1 in yardage and scoring at 34ppg.


Did we have any Defensive scoing for eiher qb? Did the special teams contribute any scoring for either qb? I didn't take the time to look it up but would like to know that as well in as far as comparing total points scored.


Ya, the defense scored for Smith once, and for Kaep 2 times, but Keap also had 2 rushing TD's playing QB when Smith was the starter vs the Jets and Bills.
Originally posted by diegosydney:
It's not a ridiculous argument to be optimistic because one guy got the team further than the other despite not having anywhere near the same amount of experience, and nowhere near the amount of support from the Defense and Special Teams.

It is a ridiculous argument, it has gone on and on and on and achieved nothing.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by diegosydney:
It's not a ridiculous argument to be optimistic because one guy got the team further than the other despite not having anywhere near the same amount of experience, and nowhere near the amount of support from the Defense and Special Teams.

It is a ridiculous argument, it has gone on and on and on and achieved nothing.

Fine, have it your way, I won't be optimistic about having a young dynamic Franchise QB that got the team to the Superbowl for the first time in 18 years.....
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by diegosydney:
It's not a ridiculous argument to be optimistic because one guy got the team further than the other despite not having anywhere near the same amount of experience, and nowhere near the amount of support from the Defense and Special Teams.

It is a ridiculous argument, it has gone on and on and on and achieved nothing.

Wow really? Come on...
[ Edited by Leathaface on Feb 6, 2013 at 10:19 AM ]
Originally posted by diegosydney:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by diegosydney:
It's not a ridiculous argument to be optimistic because one guy got the team further than the other despite not having anywhere near the same amount of experience, and nowhere near the amount of support from the Defense and Special Teams.

It is a ridiculous argument, it has gone on and on and on and achieved nothing.

Fine, have it your way, I won't be optimistic about having a young dynamic Franchise QB that got the team to the Superbowl for the first time in 18 years.....

If you had bothered to actually read my posts you would realise that what you have just posted is foolish and not relevant to what I said.
Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
Originally posted by English:
If you are going to continue this ridiculous and divisive argument, perhaps you could contrast the two teams and their coaching staff. Otherwise your question is meaningless.

Having a crappy team has nothing to do with it. Even in crappy situations there can be cause for optimism. I was optimistic after Smith's 2nd year even though the team was not good as he had improved over the 1st year.


So you weren't optimisitc at the beginning of this season before Colin was in?
  • Jcool
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Chris Wesseling ‏@ChrisWesseling

From @claytonespn: If the 49ers can't unload Alex Smith, he'll make a beeline for the Cardinals once he's released
http://www.arizonasports.com/?nid=40&sid=1608579


"I think the Browns would be the most interested," Clayton said of a potential Alex Smith trade
Originally posted by Jcool:
Chris Wesseling ‏@ChrisWesseling

From @claytonespn: If the 49ers can't unload Alex Smith, he'll make a beeline for the Cardinals once he's released
http://www.arizonasports.com/?nid=40&sid=1608579


"I think the Browns would be the most interested," Clayton said of a potential Alex Smith trade

He should choose wisely and not follow the money. I would take AZ over Cleveland. They have Fitz and a solid defense with an offensive minded coach.

Great fit.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Young2Rice:
He should choose wisely and not follow the money. I would take AZ over Cleveland. They have Fitz and a solid defense with an offensive minded coach.

Great fit.
garcia will probably tell smith not to go to cleveland. i would be upset if we got less than a third round pick for alex. i would be pissed at a 4th or 5th pick is what we got. we got s**t for charles haley, we got s**t for montana, we got s**t for Owens. lets do it right this time