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Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by hofer36:
Originally posted by Loco49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by drakan:
W-L Record
Alex Smith 6-2
Colin Kaepernick 5-2-1

Completion Percentage
Alex Smith 70.2%
Colin Kaepernick 62.4%

Average Yards per Game
Alex Smith: 207
Colin Kaepernick: 215

Both had the same receivers to work with. Since you're insinuating that Smith only makes easy passes while Kaepernick is launching bombs downfield. Why bother with the difficult passes when you can just make easy completions since both yield pretty much the same result.

They don't yield the same results. Smith's game has been inconsistent game to game. His game has also vastly dropped off when he's played better defenses. Like I said, the stats will not show why Colin is more dangerous to a top ranked defense. Top ranked defenses have eaten Alex alive more often...but in the past it was blamed on the WR's. It's because he won't make that downfield throw to an NFL open receiver. Versus the better defenses, all you're going to get is tight windows.

And then this comes all back to the "he's limited" conclusion. He can pretty up all the stats for you, but his on-field play is limited.

Kaep was horrible against Seattle and struggled against the Rams (which have an underated defense). The Bears have a good defense but at the time, there was limited tape on Kaep and it was believed that Alex would start. The other Ds have been middle of the pack. In the end, I think the bigger problem is Roman and not the QB.

kaepernick didnt do anything vs gianst defense either

Which Giants defense??

San Francisco Giants or New York Giants cause he didn't play against any of them.

Don't remember all the 3rd and long situations he created? That is convenient.

When??

Seriously I'm confused.


WildKaep, man, WildKaep! One of the postulations about why we stunk so bad vs. the Giants was the Kaep was inserted in the middle of a series, threw off the offensive Rhythm. At least once he set up third and long, then Smith came back in and pressed too hard to pick up and threw an INT.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
How is Smith more consistent? His lowest three QB ratings were 43.1, 74.5, 78.1. Kaep's lowest three QB ratings were 72.0, 83.9, 84.7.

And look at who's more consistent by quarter...

Kaep QB rating:
1st Quarter 106.3
2nd Quarter 85.2
3rd Quarter 108.4
4th Quarter 98.8

Smith QB rating:
1st Quarter 99.1
2nd Quarter 109.6
3rd Quarter 122.7
4th Quarter 67.4

Kaep takes fewer sacks, fewer INT's, fewer turnovers, more YPG, more YPP, has a higher QBR, equal in touchdowns scored (both running and passing), is a far better runner, with a far better arm, with better accuracy, and he has been more consistent. Smith has the QB rating by a couple points and completion %, both of these stats are helped by the fact that he takes more sacks and doesn't attempt difficult throws.

With almost every conceivable stat, Kaep is better. With every physical attribute, Kaep is better. With team chemistry, we see Kaep laughing it up with his players on the sideline like we have rarely seen with Smith.

And how many times have you seen us do the read option the last few games? We have almost removed it entirely. We have probably done more audibles, shifts, and exotic formations with Kaep than with Smith.

Those numbers are pretty similar and the number of games involved is so small that it really doesn't say much. Kaep throws a pick in one of those quarters and his numbers go down. Alex throws 2 touchdowns in a 4th quarter and his numbers go way up.

People just need to stop doing these stupid comparisons. Kaep is the QB. Alex is moving on. They are both good, and there is some question as to whether or not Kaep or Alex was better for this season. Jim made the decision and In the long run I think it is pretty clear that Kaep can be great. We'll just see starting today if that gamble paid off.
Ok so this begs the question....what do we do for a back up qb since Alex is as good as gone? I doubt we are going to use a draft pick on a qb so which veteran do we pick up in the off season?? I
Originally posted by AZ9erfan520:
Ok so this begs the question....what do we do for a back up qb since Alex is as good as gone? I doubt we are going to use a draft pick on a qb so which veteran do we pick up in the off season?? I

easy. Lord Tolzien sits back at # 2 until he feels like starting. Then, we bring in an old vet or draft another baby.
I'm still blown away by the fact that Smith was 25-27 in his last passes with 4 TDs and no picks. And he threw his last TD WITH A CONCUSSION! Dude was on a rip. But he had to be dumped (money, cap (Kap) space "moving forward") so that was the time to do it. Is this what one can expect to happen when he hits his "ceiling?" Is it true that our new QB can never do worse than this (his "floor")?

Who led the all time highest offensive yardage game in the history of the 49ers?

Who set the all time NFL completion percentage in a game (over 15 attempts)?

Yes! Our second stringer did it THIS YEAR!

We are truly blessed.

Go 9ers!
Originally posted by notsoempty86:
I hope they let Kap run wild, knowing that we have a solid backup in Alex. Im not saying I want Kap to get hurt, just that I hope he isnt restrained from running.

Therein lies the problem. Kaepernick wasn't drafted where he was to be a running QB. We could have sent a 4th to Denver for Tebow if that was what we wanted to do. CK was drafted to throw the ball and to use his mobility only to escape pressure. This fascination with the read/option/running QB will all end when a couple of these guys suffer season-ending injuries. Imagine where the Redskins would be with the enormous price they paid to draft RGIII only to have had him tear up his knee in the second game of the season rather than the playoffs. The picture I see is that the Redskins would be at the back of their division.

I don't want a running QB. I just want a guy who is mobile enough to buy a little time, extend the play a bit. I don't want another Big Ben type. His recurring injuries have limited his effectiveness at critical times. Let the RBs take that pounding while the QB stays healthy enough to make the throws he was drafted to make.
Originally posted by dj43:
Therein lies the problem. Kaepernick wasn't drafted where he was to be a running QB. We could have sent a 4th to Denver for Tebow if that was what we wanted to do. CK was drafted to throw the ball and to use his mobility only to escape pressure. This fascination with the read/option/running QB will all end when a couple of these guys suffer season-ending injuries. Imagine where the Redskins would be with the enormous price they paid to draft RGIII only to have had him tear up his knee in the second game of the season rather than the playoffs. The picture I see is that the Redskins would be at the back of their division.

I don't want a running QB. I just want a guy who is mobile enough to buy a little time, extend the play a bit. I don't want another Big Ben type. His recurring injuries have limited his effectiveness at critical times. Let the RBs take that pounding while the QB stays healthy enough to make the throws he was drafted to make.
Though this may be true, I really like the dynamics that a running QB brings. But for some reason, it makes me cringe when I see a play designed only for the QB to run. I also don't want my QB bombing down the field on special teams (Tebow). This being said, I lost interest in the NFL at one time partially because of the image I have of the QB being some semi-athletic prima donna who hides behind the true athletes and barks orders.

I imagine the reasoning for protecting the QB at the expense of losing some offensive production is that the team typically rides on the shoulders of the QB. If he gets hurt, the game, season, franchise is lost. I wish it weren't so. Is there an alternative to putting all the balls in one bag? I think the 49ers have done that remarkably this year, winning a high percentage with two different QBs.
I just like a QB that is fast enough to evade pressure and make a defense pay of the pocket breaks down and he sees open space. Because then those db's and linebackers always have something else to think about.
God i hate late games
Makes me wonder what Walsh would think about the option... I think he would go crazy. Having all the possibilities on running an offense reduced to giving the ball to one guy from the snap to the end of the play. For a guy like Walsh who was able to methodically picked apart a defense, I think he would feel limited.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
easy. Lord Tolzien sits back at # 2 until he feels like starting. Then, we bring in an old vet or draft another baby.

Tolzien prefers not to start. Directly influencing the game destroys NFL parity. He prefers to simply imbue the most faithful of his teammates/disciples with arcane whupass (Willis turned his locker into a shrine).
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Makes me wonder what Walsh would think about the option... I think he would go crazy. Having all the possibilities on running an offense reduced to giving the ball to one guy from the snap to the end of the play. For a guy like Walsh who was able to methodically picked apart a defense, I think he would feel limited.

Walsh actually used Montana on a few running plays. The blind bootleg was a Walsh innovation at the time. Not that it hadn't been done before but the way he used Montana in it was new. After Montana took over from DeBerg and developed into the polished passer that the did, a few hard hits on Montana caused Walsh to move away from the "running QB" idea.
Montana would absolutely take off running if he saw a first down opportunity. My favorite Montana run was the '84 season Superbowl. He sees that the linebackers and db's are in man coverage and he takes off running behind the Dolphins linebacker, smiling all the way like he's a kid pulling a practical joke. By the time the linebacker realizes Montana is running down the field behind him, he's already gone for 20 yards.
  • IT21
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,086
Why are you guys debating still???
Were in the playoffs dammit

Just root for your team to win, and you shouldn't give a crap who the QB is if you're a real fan.

I loved Alex as much as any other fan but honestly, I dont give a s**t if he's on the bench or on the field as long as we win.

Go kaep! Go 9ers!
Originally posted by AZ9erfan520:
Ok so this begs the question....what do we do for a back up qb since Alex is as good as gone? I doubt we are going to use a draft pick on a qb so which veteran do we pick up in the off season?? I

Why not use a draft pick? Not short of them.