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Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Hopefully he gets in the game for some mop-up duty again and gets another sympathy cheer.
Gimme another youngin to replace Smith, I have faith in Harbaugh and company.
[ Edited by WINiner on Jan 11, 2013 at 10:40 PM ]
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by THEB:
English im tellin ya man, just make an unmoderated, no holds barred QB thread. That way all the junk stays in there and you dont have to worry about it anymore. People can talk all the crap they want there.

Its obviousd that people still want to talk about Smith Vs. Kaep, and threads will just keep getting closed. In stead of forcing the discussion (fighting) out, why not just supply a place for it?

There is a place for it. The outside world. You can all go into bars and mouth off all you want at your fellow fans.

This is not the place for it. This is a moderated board which is intended for fans of the team. We aren't about to surrender part of it to those who are unable or unwilling to post in a pleasant and adult fashion.

Post of the year!!!!...So far..
Originally posted by blm7754:
I am shocked at all the chatter I have seen recently about Alex Smith's value. Many folks don't think he is worth more than a late round draft pick. Others think he is overpaid at $8M. Still others have the audacity to think that he should accept a pay cut and stay a 49er backup.

What the f**k does this poor guy have to do to prove his worth? Over his last 30 or so starts he is statistically one of the best QBs in the league. You can't deny his efficiency, decision making, ability to read a defense, and accuracy. At least half the teams in the NFL would have won more games this year with Smith at QB than they did with the bums they currently have. He is also young. Just at the beginning of the prime playing years of his career.

People want to say that he sucks without the genius Harbaugh.... as if he was a puppet. True, Harbaugh may have given Smith the instruction he needed to get his career on track. But that doesn't mean that Smith can't take those lessons learned with him.

Smiths ability and age make him easily worth a 2nd round pick for any team in need of a QB. If he hits FA, I guarantee he will get a better deal than the one he has now.

I would only agree with 2 of the 4 items on your list. Efficiency mainly depends on what the maximum potential of that play actually is. I don't think he's very efficient at maximizing a play. The accuracy thing, well, let's just he gets the ball there but there are constraints that come into play in terms of how open is the receiver that is a direct result in the difficulty of the throw.

His stats do not necessary translate into on-field production.

efficiency: No
decision making: Yes
ability to read a defense: Yes
accuracy: No
[ Edited by Joecool on Jan 11, 2013 at 12:39 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by blm7754:
I am shocked at all the chatter I have seen recently about Alex Smith's value. Many folks don't think he is worth more than a late round draft pick. Others think he is overpaid at $8M. Still others have the audacity to think that he should accept a pay cut and stay a 49er backup.

What the f**k does this poor guy have to do to prove his worth? Over his last 30 or so starts he is statistically one of the best QBs in the league. You can't deny his efficiency, decision making, ability to read a defense, and accuracy. At least half the teams in the NFL would have won more games this year with Smith at QB than they did with the bums they currently have. He is also young. Just at the beginning of the prime playing years of his career.

People want to say that he sucks without the genius Harbaugh.... as if he was a puppet. True, Harbaugh may have given Smith the instruction he needed to get his career on track. But that doesn't mean that Smith can't take those lessons learned with him.

Smiths ability and age make him easily worth a 2nd round pick for any team in need of a QB. If he hits FA, I guarantee he will get a better deal than the one he has now.

I would only agree with 2 of the 4 items on your list. Efficiency mainly depends on what the maximum potential of that play actually is. I don't think he's very efficient at maximizing a play. The accuracy thing, well, let's just he gets the ball there but there are constraints that come into play in terms of how open is the receiver that is a direct result in the difficulty of the throw.

His stats do not necessary translate into on-field production.

efficiency: No
decision making: Yes
ability to read a defense: Yes
accuracy: No

Yet, he was claimed by most as the most efficient QB in the league?
Originally posted by ElDannMann:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by blm7754:
I am shocked at all the chatter I have seen recently about Alex Smith's value. Many folks don't think he is worth more than a late round draft pick. Others think he is overpaid at $8M. Still others have the audacity to think that he should accept a pay cut and stay a 49er backup.

What the f**k does this poor guy have to do to prove his worth? Over his last 30 or so starts he is statistically one of the best QBs in the league. You can't deny his efficiency, decision making, ability to read a defense, and accuracy. At least half the teams in the NFL would have won more games this year with Smith at QB than they did with the bums they currently have. He is also young. Just at the beginning of the prime playing years of his career.

People want to say that he sucks without the genius Harbaugh.... as if he was a puppet. True, Harbaugh may have given Smith the instruction he needed to get his career on track. But that doesn't mean that Smith can't take those lessons learned with him.

Smiths ability and age make him easily worth a 2nd round pick for any team in need of a QB. If he hits FA, I guarantee he will get a better deal than the one he has now.

I would only agree with 2 of the 4 items on your list. Efficiency mainly depends on what the maximum potential of that play actually is. I don't think he's very efficient at maximizing a play. The accuracy thing, well, let's just he gets the ball there but there are constraints that come into play in terms of how open is the receiver that is a direct result in the difficulty of the throw.

His stats do not necessary translate into on-field production.

efficiency: No
decision making: Yes
ability to read a defense: Yes
accuracy: No

Yet, he was claimed by most as the most efficient QB in the league?

Like I said, some stats don't translate. Efficiency and consistency usually come together. He was not a consistent QB from game to game and he does not maximize the potential of a play. If efficiency is defined as he's not going to make big plays but he's not going to make too many bad plays either, then I agree with you.

If a team wants a QB that can play well within the scope of the offense, then he's their QB. If a team wants a QB who can overcome a play that doesn't work, then he's not the QB.
  • jrg
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 110,588
Funny all these threads started when we got Smith

Why didn't we ever have a Cody Pickett, Ken Dorsey, Chris Weinke, Tim Rattay thread
Originally posted by jrg:
Funny all these threads started when we got Smith

Why didn't we ever have a Cody Pickett, Ken Dorsey, Chris Weinke, Tim Rattay thread

Because Smith is an enigma. You see the stat sheet and think top 10 QB but when you watch the games, you see an inconsistent player in terms of production. You don't see a player that stands out like the stat sheet shows.
With the other QBs, the stats pretty much explained the on field play.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by blm7754:
I am shocked at all the chatter I have seen recently about Alex Smith's value. Many folks don't think he is worth more than a late round draft pick. Others think he is overpaid at $8M. Still others have the audacity to think that he should accept a pay cut and stay a 49er backup.

What the f**k does this poor guy have to do to prove his worth? Over his last 30 or so starts he is statistically one of the best QBs in the league. You can't deny his efficiency, decision making, ability to read a defense, and accuracy. At least half the teams in the NFL would have won more games this year with Smith at QB than they did with the bums they currently have. He is also young. Just at the beginning of the prime playing years of his career.

People want to say that he sucks without the genius Harbaugh.... as if he was a puppet. True, Harbaugh may have given Smith the instruction he needed to get his career on track. But that doesn't mean that Smith can't take those lessons learned with him.

Smiths ability and age make him easily worth a 2nd round pick for any team in need of a QB. If he hits FA, I guarantee he will get a better deal than the one he has now.

I would only agree with 2 of the 4 items on your list. Efficiency mainly depends on what the maximum potential of that play actually is. I don't think he's very efficient at maximizing a play. The accuracy thing, well, let's just he gets the ball there but there are constraints that come into play in terms of how open is the receiver that is a direct result in the difficulty of the throw.

His stats do not necessary translate into on-field production.

efficiency: No
decision making: Yes
ability to read a defense: Yes
accuracy: No


Accuracy: No? So a 70% completion rate doesn't equal accurate enough for you. Bet its your eye test right?
Originally posted by rk1642:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by blm7754:
I am shocked at all the chatter I have seen recently about Alex Smith's value. Many folks don't think he is worth more than a late round draft pick. Others think he is overpaid at $8M. Still others have the audacity to think that he should accept a pay cut and stay a 49er backup.

What the f**k does this poor guy have to do to prove his worth? Over his last 30 or so starts he is statistically one of the best QBs in the league. You can't deny his efficiency, decision making, ability to read a defense, and accuracy. At least half the teams in the NFL would have won more games this year with Smith at QB than they did with the bums they currently have. He is also young. Just at the beginning of the prime playing years of his career.

People want to say that he sucks without the genius Harbaugh.... as if he was a puppet. True, Harbaugh may have given Smith the instruction he needed to get his career on track. But that doesn't mean that Smith can't take those lessons learned with him.

Smiths ability and age make him easily worth a 2nd round pick for any team in need of a QB. If he hits FA, I guarantee he will get a better deal than the one he has now.

I would only agree with 2 of the 4 items on your list. Efficiency mainly depends on what the maximum potential of that play actually is. I don't think he's very efficient at maximizing a play. The accuracy thing, well, let's just he gets the ball there but there are constraints that come into play in terms of how open is the receiver that is a direct result in the difficulty of the throw.

His stats do not necessary translate into on-field production.

efficiency: No
decision making: Yes
ability to read a defense: Yes
accuracy: No


Accuracy: No? So a 70% completion rate doesn't equal accurate enough for you. Bet its your eye test right?

Difficulty of throw couldn't possibly have any affect on that, right? Stats don't always translate which is why he is on the bench. A team that has WRs get wide open More times than not would thrive with Alex. He's also not a very WR friendly QB so the team must have top middle of the field targets.
Nobody wants to talk about Tolzien
Originally posted by Joecool:
Difficulty of throw couldn't possibly have any affect on that, right? Stats don't always translate which is why he is on the bench. A team that has WRs get wide open More times than not would thrive with Alex. He's also not a very WR friendly QB so the team must have top middle of the field targets.

Good grief! Now we are accounting for difficulty of the throws and the size of the window he threw into!!!!???? Hey AS has a higher redzone td % than Kaep, but that doesn't count because Kaep makes plays outside the redzone thus he's better <-- so seems to go the "logic" of some.
Originally posted by Jtninerfan210:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Difficulty of throw couldn't possibly have any affect on that, right? Stats don't always translate which is why he is on the bench. A team that has WRs get wide open More times than not would thrive with Alex. He's also not a very WR friendly QB so the team must have top middle of the field targets.

Good grief! Now we are accounting for difficulty of the throws and the size of the window he threw into!!!!???? Hey AS has a higher redzone td % than Kaep, but that doesn't count because Kaep makes plays outside the redzone thus he's better <-- so seems to go the "logic" of some.

JoeCool is the staple of the Zone. It's best not to touch his posts, but more like admiration from afar for his anti-Smith affinity.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Jtninerfan210:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Difficulty of throw couldn't possibly have any affect on that, right? Stats don't always translate which is why he is on the bench. A team that has WRs get wide open More times than not would thrive with Alex. He's also not a very WR friendly QB so the team must have top middle of the field targets.

Good grief! Now we are accounting for difficulty of the throws and the size of the window he threw into!!!!???? Hey AS has a higher redzone td % than Kaep, but that doesn't count because Kaep makes plays outside the redzone thus he's better <-- so seems to go the "logic" of some.

JoeCool is the staple of the Zone. It's best not to touch his posts, but more like admiration from afar for his anti-Smith affinity.



I am seriously a believer of stats translating to production on the field. Alex Smith's stats do not translate to production on the field. Then when you actually watch him play, you realize there are some things he is not doing which explains it. The All 22 footage caught a lot of Alex's short-comings.

Also, if he is so efficient, so accurate,...then why was he sooo inconsistent from game to game?
Originally posted by Loco49er:
Normally I would agree about taking the high road but I think this was a special circumstance where nobody would fault him for speaking his mind and expressing anger.

Not to change your mind or argue... but Alex did publicly state that "it sucks" when directly asked by the media. He's just not gonna throw a fit... act childish about it.. and cause a distraction to the team (his teammates). I respect that.