Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by KaepernickFan:
That's fair enoguh. Like I said previously, whether ppl believe this yrs team is better then last yrs team, the fact remains that it's extremely hard for any QB to get his team to the SB. And esp in this case with a 2nd yr QB with only 9 career starts under his belt. Another fact is regardless if this team really is better then last yrs, Kap, not Alex Smith, has helped lead this to the SB. Alex has never done that. But whatever...all of this Kap vs Smith talk should/will go away once we trade or cut Smith next season.

Alex did half the work...unless you think the first half the season didn't matter....he's also still mentoring Colin...gotta admire his team first mentality...

but you're right that Colin, not Alex will get all of the credit..you've just proven that.

To most fans maybe, but prob not among his teammates. I'm sure a lot of them recognize and appreciate what Alex has done for this team not only this yr, but the past 7 seasons.

Originally posted by Furlow:
Why is it okay to mention Kaepernick in this thread, but not Alex in the Kaepernick thread? It is mind boggling to me how some people just can't let go of the hate for Alex. We would not be in the Super Bowl if it weren't for all of the things that he has done the past two seasons. And for him to make those sacrifices, with all that happened to him in the prior years, should make people thankful. It won't matter if he plays even one snap in the Super Bowl, he will have earned his ring.

Let it go guys. It's okay to like Kaepernick, think he's better, but NOT disparage Alex Smith.

It's a lose lose situation. I think comparing what they did and what one or the other could not do is the where you begin to move from a safe conversation to a volatile one.

I still think Shaun Hill got done dirtier. They said we don't want you to make Alex look over his shoulder or force the Coach's hand...so you out of here. Shaun Hill is the ideal backup for any team and he would easily move to 3rd QB if we are developing a young one and then move right back to backup after the development QB starts or is removed.

Originally posted by Furlow:
Why is it okay to mention Kaepernick in this thread, but not Alex in the Kaepernick thread? It is mind boggling to me how some people just can't let go of the hate for Alex. We would not be in the Super Bowl if it weren't for all of the things that he has done the past two seasons. And for him to make those sacrifices, with all that happened to him in the prior years, should make people thankful. It won't matter if he plays even one snap in the Super Bowl, he will have earned his ring.

Let it go guys. It's okay to like Kaepernick, think he's better, but NOT disparage Alex Smith.

My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

Originally posted by Joecool:
My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

sigh.

We didn't get anywhere with Alex Smith? We were only a fumble away from the Superbowl last year, went 13-3 in a lockout year. Smith just so happened to be finally living up to his draft status once we finally get a coach who actually knows what he's doing. Coincidence? And I believe, as does Kurt Warner that we'd probably still be in the superbowl with Alex Smith as our qb.

Why do you feel the need to come to the Smith thread to just talk about how garbage he is? The hate that you accumulated for him during the early stages of his career doesn't allow you to see and acknowledge that the man is a good qb in this league. He is a top 15 qb and was playing at a top 10 level prior to getting concussed. And don't give the argument, yeah that's why he's a backup. He's a backup, because we happen to have a qb that's possibly even better.

Originally posted by Joecool:
My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

Yup NFC championship is nowhere... come on... You earn your credibility. Every time you said something, it was proven false. Now that Kaep has taken over you feel like it justifies all your comments..but it doesn't. Alex, despite what you think, is a VERY GOOD QB. Colin just happens to be special, and I suspect that given the same circumstances Harbaugh would have made the same choice over JUST ABOUT every qb currently playing the game today.

so if you had your way would you draft a qb or sign a vet to go with the kid as a back up to ck next year? i opt for a vet myself. two kids behind ck makes me nervous.. i may have said this two pages ago but people are starting to lash out at each other

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:
My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

Yup NFC championship is nowhere... come on... You earn your credibility. Every time you said something, it was proven false. Now that Kaep has taken over you feel like it justifies all your comments..but it doesn't. Alex, despite what you think, is a VERY GOOD QB. Colin just happens to be special, and I suspect that given the same circumstances Harbaugh would have made the same choice over JUST ABOUT every qb currently playing the game today.

Yup I think it's so funny how these Alex Smith haters try to claim that they were right, Alex Smith sucks, that's why he got benched. It's such a ridiculous argument. Like I said Smith was playing at a top 10 level with a 104 qb rating, 70 completion percentage, 6-2 record... We just went with a qb that is possibly something really special and even better. It'd be like saying that Steve Young sucked because he was a backup when he was behind Joe Montana. Young probably would have been a top 10 qb in the mid to late 80's had he started on another team, but he was backing up the very best qb.

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:
My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

Yup NFC championship is nowhere... come on... You earn your credibility. Every time you said something, it was proven false. Now that Kaep has taken over you feel like it justifies all your comments..but it doesn't. Alex, despite what you think, is a VERY GOOD QB. Colin just happens to be special, and I suspect that given the same circumstances Harbaugh would have made the same choice over JUST ABOUT every qb currently playing the game today.

Yup I think it's so funny how these Alex Smith haters try to claim that they were right, Alex Smith sucks, that's why he got benched. It's such a ridiculous argument. Like I said Smith was playing at a top 10 level with a 104 qb rating, 70 completion percentage, 6-2 record... We just went with a qb that is possibly something really special and even better. It'd be like saying that Steve Young sucked because he was a backup when he was behind Joe Montana. Young probably would have been a top 10 qb in the mid to late 80's had he started on another team, but he was backing up the very best qb.

I seem you forgot all the excuses made for Alex. How about you hear the same excuses for these QB's: Man, if Hill had Harbaugh or if JTO had Harbaugh,...

I'll end it here. Nothing will show us our evaluation of Alex until he shows us how he performs on another team.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:
My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

Yup NFC championship is nowhere... come on... You earn your credibility. Every time you said something, it was proven false. Now that Kaep has taken over you feel like it justifies all your comments..but it doesn't. Alex, despite what you think, is a VERY GOOD QB. Colin just happens to be special, and I suspect that given the same circumstances Harbaugh would have made the same choice over JUST ABOUT every qb currently playing the game today.

Yup I think it's so funny how these Alex Smith haters try to claim that they were right, Alex Smith sucks, that's why he got benched. It's such a ridiculous argument. Like I said Smith was playing at a top 10 level with a 104 qb rating, 70 completion percentage, 6-2 record... We just went with a qb that is possibly something really special and even better. It'd be like saying that Steve Young sucked because he was a backup when he was behind Joe Montana. Young probably would have been a top 10 qb in the mid to late 80's had he started on another team, but he was backing up the very best qb.

I seem you forgot all the excuses made for Alex. How about you hear the same excuses for these QB's: Man, if Hill had Harbaugh or if JTO had Harbaugh,...

I'll end it here. Nothing will show us our evaluation of Alex until he shows us how he performs on another team.

well i will step up as a extreme alex lover and say i am sorry for all those times i made fun and ripped joe and others when they tried to tell us that alex takes sacks and ck would not. i thought that was the dumbest thing i ever heard,, well it is pretty easy to see how wrong i was about that.

Originally posted by cciowa:
well i will step up as a extreme alex lover and say i am sorry for all those times i made fun and ripped joe and others when they tried to tell us that alex takes sacks and ck would not. i thought that was the dumbest thing i ever heard,, well it is pretty easy to see how wrong i was about that.

No need for that cciowa. The way everything has played out lets us know both sides had valid reasons to think why they did and that it wasn't all about "credibility" or this or that.

The main disturbance now is the anger when Alex is measured. All that is asked is to put the anger/personal feelings toward a player aside and let the conversations or comments go as they may. It is only a discussion.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by cciowa:
well i will step up as a extreme alex lover and say i am sorry for all those times i made fun and ripped joe and others when they tried to tell us that alex takes sacks and ck would not. i thought that was the dumbest thing i ever heard,, well it is pretty easy to see how wrong i was about that.

No need for that cciowa. The way everything has played out lets us know both sides had valid reasons to think why they did and that it wasn't all about "credibility" or this or that.

The main disturbance now is the anger when Alex is measured. All that is asked is to put the anger/personal feelings toward a player aside and let the conversations or comments go as they may. It is only a discussion.

I made a comment that Keap is a fast striker and scores faster in comparison to Alex and got ripped for being a hater....

Apparently you are only allowed to give praise in the Keap thread but are still allowed to talk s**t in this one.

I've said this before and will again here. Put Aaron Rodgers or Kaep in Alex Smith's situation in 2005 and you get the same result and likely worse from Kaep. The 49ers organization was set up at that time to have its QB fail. I don't think anyone can debate that. As for the old line of "5 years of sucking" from Smith that's just silly. I believe Smith played about 3 seasons worth of football in his first 5 years in the NFL. For the really bad seasons for the team, other than his rookie year, Smith was hurt or the coach was stupid (Singletary in Year 7 or a combination of the two (Nolan in year 3). When healthy and given a decent OC Smith looked good (Year 2 and last half of Year before Harbaugh came).

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Joecool:
My main bitterness is that I used to get the "you have no credibility, you supported Shaun Hill or JTO..." yet I could say the same to those who thought Alex was legit...even after we wanted to replace him in the offseason or no one wanted to sign him or after Jim replaced him mid-year...point is, we didn't get anywhere by starting Alex Smith and he was only a place-holder. Sing and Nolan had just as much guts as Harbaugh in knowing this and trying the next guy. Their problem was that they never helped the next guy either.

okay, that's the last I will say about that.

Yup NFC championship is nowhere... come on... You earn your credibility. Every time you said something, it was proven false. Now that Kaep has taken over you feel like it justifies all your comments..but it doesn't. Alex, despite what you think, is a VERY GOOD QB. Colin just happens to be special, and I suspect that given the same circumstances Harbaugh would have made the same choice over JUST ABOUT every qb currently playing the game today.

Yup I think it's so funny how these Alex Smith haters try to claim that they were right, Alex Smith sucks, that's why he got benched. It's such a ridiculous argument. Like I said Smith was playing at a top 10 level with a 104 qb rating, 70 completion percentage, 6-2 record... We just went with a qb that is possibly something really special and even better. It'd be like saying that Steve Young sucked because he was a backup when he was behind Joe Montana. Young probably would have been a top 10 qb in the mid to late 80's had he started on another team, but he was backing up the very best qb.

I seem you forgot all the excuses made for Alex. How about you hear the same excuses for these QB's: Man, if Hill had Harbaugh or if JTO had Harbaugh,...

I'll end it here. Nothing will show us our evaluation of Alex until he shows us how he performs on another team.

well i will step up as a extreme alex lover and say i am sorry for all those times i made fun and ripped joe and others when they tried to tell us that alex takes sacks and ck would not. i thought that was the dumbest thing i ever heard,, well it is pretty easy to see how wrong i was about that.

I don't think it's necessarily that Alex takes sacks, I Just think Kaepernicks superior athleticism allows him to avoid more sacks and extend plays. I will say though that Smith may have taken an occasional sack to avoid forcing a throw. Rather take a sack than throw a pick. That is why he was so good with ball security. He was more of a conservative quarterback, but his yardage and touchdown production I believe was showing some improvement this year.

And remember Harbaugh wanted Alex Smith to stay in his first year because he saw that the guy had some talent and he could win games with this guy. He wasn't going out and complimenting JT O sullivan, Shaun Hill, or another free agent quarterback and try to work magic with them. He didn't find the need to trade for a qb or draft a qb to start right away because he knew Smith was a good qb in his own right that he could win with right now.

Originally posted by taney71:
I've said this before and will again here. Put Aaron Rodgers or Kaep in Alex Smith's situation in 2005 and you get the same result and likely worse from Kaep. The 49ers organization was set up at that time to have its QB fail. I don't think anyone can debate that. As for the old line of "5 years of sucking" from Smith that's just silly. I believe Smith played about 3 seasons worth of football in his first 5 years in the NFL. For the really bad seasons for the team, other than his rookie year, Smith was hurt or the coach was stupid (Singletary in Year 7 or a combination of the two (Nolan in year 3). When healthy and given a decent OC Smith looked good (Year 2 and last half of Year before Harbaugh came).

Don't agree at all. Aaron Rodgers would have shown far more in 2005 with McCarthy AND he would have thrived under Norv Turner. Rodgers has the ability to carry teams in certain situations whereas Alex has rarely shown this even under the best conditions.

I don't know how you can under rate the actual talent Rodgers possesses. He has been talked about having the best ability to throw a football EVER by professionals.

Do you know why we switched from WCO McCarthy to Norv? It was because Alex was having trouble with the WCO at that time. Rodgers was already experienced in it.