Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
that is a rare thing

they spotted the other team 17 points AND left 10 points on the field due to mistakes.

that is a far harder thing to overcome then two muffed punts.

I think last years team was the better team...it definitely had a better defense and was healthier.

on defense yes...on offense we were playing with swain and what's his name for WRs...neither of them are in the NFL today, Walker had his chin wired up and was in pain, Frank was not close to 100% and Hunter had not quite broken out the way he did earlier this season.

We are a better team overall this post season compared to last.

This. The players benefited from the 2 games they had last year. A lot of the players brought this up, they mentioned how they were left with a bad taste in their mouths and knew how to handle it better this time around. I know Crabtree felt he had something to prove.

"Every playoff game I have something to prove," Crabtree said. "Last year it was bad, it was what it was. We are on a new year and I'm just trying to make a play and get that win."

http://nbcbayarea.csnbayarea.com/blog/matt-maiocco/crabtree-still-out-prove-himself

Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Nobody brings teams from down big consistently. So you will find that those numbers are bad in general. Alex was a part of some awful teams before last season. In his first season with a good team he had one of those comebacks. Hooray for the Niners! Colin had one last night... Hooray for the Niners!

He was part of awful teams but he was awful as well. He contributed to that. As far as comebacks we are 1-27 since 2001 when trailing by 17+ in the first half. What Kaep did after a missed field goal, a fumble at the goal line...with Max Hall and Ted Ginn is truly amazing. He was able to overcome all of these things. Not taking anything away from Smith but he couldn't overcome the lack of receiver talent and the muffed punts.

Really, Kaep had to overcome? Get real man, Kaep has been handed a Rolls Royce. Got the gig after all of the trials and tribulations of the last 6 years. Lets not rewrite history. He has played well and is the future but to say he has overcome anything close to what Alex had to deal with is a joke! No need to list the ways and players and coachs of the past but its safe to say this is a far different team that those early years. Very happy for Kaep but please stop degrading what Alex brought to this team and how he helped us out last offseason when we taught the O the WCO and helped turn us into a winner.

well, smith contributed to a superbowl system, id say hes come a long way. this is not meant to bash the guy at all, i have always liked smith. just saying, from year one to now the guy has worked his ass off to overcome some crazy obstacles. whoever gets him next season is getting a good quarterback

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by GhostofJimmyDean:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by InHarbsWeTrust:
He was part of awful teams but he was awful as well. He contributed to that. As far as comebacks we are 1-27 since 2001 when trailing by 17 in the first half. What Kaep did after a missed field goal, a fumble at the goal line...with Max Hall and Ted Ginn is truly amazing. He was able to overcome all of these things. Not taking anything away from Smith but he couldn't overcome the lack of receiver talent and the muffed punts.

He was awful at the beginning. The last few years of Singletary he was a scapegoat who was actually starting to play pretty well. It was always the coaching. Once the coaching was there this team took off. That is how it is with any team. Lol Kaep didn't throw to Ginn or "Max" Hall and they were bit players in that game. Look Kaep played really really well last game and helped bring the team back. No disputing that. I'm just never going to use that to limit what Alex could or couldn't have done. When I watched him play he played at a high level. There is no reason he couldn't have led offensive drives like those in the game. Maybe he doesn't go 3 and out on his first drive so we aren't down by 17 anyway... It is pointless to debate hypotheticals. If the Other thread should be kept as a strictly CK thread then let's keep this one strictly to Smith/His Most High Holiness ST

Wherever Alex gets traded next season I can go to that teams message board as my secondary team, and argue with their fans. There is no reason to argue here

Gross.

What... having secondary interest in another team is gross? It is extremely common especially when you don't live in a city with your favorite team. It is just the way it is for many NFL fans. I am a 49er fan, but also a football fan, and a fan of people. I'll always root for Alex Smith as a former Niner unless he is playing the Niners. This idea that you can't like other teams is outdated and part of the neanderthal culture in football that I find distasteful. I like other players around the league too, and check in on them from time to time. Players with ties to colleges that I attended etc... you guys need to stop trying to make people out as some kind of Smith Sycophants just because they root for the guy. He has a compelling story, and is a good dude.

Edit: Also your post is totally pointless, and adds nothing to the discussion. Please try to have something enlightening or interesting to say. You can always just stay out of here rather than going the inciting route

Meh.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by dtcomposer:
What... having secondary interest in another team is gross? It is extremely common especially when you don't live in a city with your favorite team. It is just the way it is for many NFL fans. I am a 49er fan, but also a football fan, and a fan of people. I'll always root for Alex Smith as a former Niner unless he is playing the Niners. This idea that you can't like other teams is outdated and part of the neanderthal culture in football that I find distasteful. I like other players around the league too, and check in on them from time to time. Players with ties to colleges that I attended etc... you guys need to stop trying to make people out as some kind of Smith Sycophants just because they root for the guy. He has a compelling story, and is a good dude.

Edit: Also your post is totally pointless, and adds nothing to the discussion. Please try to have something enlightening or interesting to say. You can always just stay out of here rather than going the inciting route

I love this post so very much.

+1

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by ninermedic:

Come on dudes. feel the love...? Super Bowl...?

All good. 49ers fan for life! Nothing wrong with pulling for other teams too.. so long as they are not threatening the Niners.

I certainly rooted for KC when Montana was there except when they played the 9ers.

Yes, but Montana held his own when he went there. The biggest question about Alex is if he will be able to do the same on another team.

Send him to a playoff team like Montana was and I'd think he'd play well.

Win or lose, (obviously praying we win) the bottom line is Kap has gotten us to the SB, something Alex has never been able to do in his 8 yr career with us. Some may argue that this yrs team is better then last yrs, but regardless if that's true or not, no one can deny that our team was very good last yr, perhaps built to go to the SB. And what happened? We came up short.

There is no guarantee that if Smith never got hurt, he would of lead us to a 11-4-1 record, get the #2 seed, and beat the Packers and help this team make an epic comeback from 17 points down in a very hostile environment (Falcons) and eventually go on and win the game. Say what you want, but there was also no guarantee that just because we have a very good team this yr, a 2nd yr QB with very little experience would be able to lead this team to the SB. I mean cmon. I don't care how good we are. That is amazing for any young QB to do regardless of how good his team is.

It's been stated numerous times that right now and in the future, Kap is already an overall better QB then Alex Smith. Has a lot better arm strength, accuracy is just as good if not better than Smith's, better pocket presence, better poise and leadership, and obviously is a heck of a lot more mobile then Smith is. Like I said in the beginning, whether we win or lose the SB, the fact remains that Kap, not Alex Smith, ultimatley helped lead this team there. THAT in itself should end all of this Kap vs Smith nonsense that even I have participated in. But knowing some here, Kap leading this team to the SB, possibly even winning it, STILL may not even be enough. Guess it won't truly end until we trade or release Smith next season. If that's the case, then all of this stuff should be coming to an end soon. Thank God.

Originally posted by KaepernickFan:
Win or lose, (obviously praying we win) the bottom line is Kap has gotten us to the SB, something Alex has never been able to do in his 8 yr career with us. Some may argue that this yrs team is better then last yrs, but regardless if that's true or not, no one can deny that our team was very good last yr, perhaps built to go to the SB. And what happened? We came up short.

There is no guarantee that if Smith never got hurt, he would of lead us to a 11-4-1 record, get the #2 seed, and beat the Packers and help this team make an epic comeback from 17 points down in a very hostile environment (Falcons) and eventually go on and win the game. Say what you want, but there was also no guarantee that just because we have a very good team this yr, a 2nd yr QB with very little experience would be able to lead this team to the SB. I mean cmon. I don't care how good we are. That is amazing for any young QB to do regardless of how good his team is.

It's been stated numerous times that right now and in the future, Kap is already an overall better QB then Alex Smith. Has a lot better arm strength, accuracy is just as good if not better than Smith's, better pocket presence, better poise and leadership, and obviously is a heck of a lot more mobile then Smith is. Like I said in the beginning, whether we win or lose the SB, the fact remains that Kap, not Alex Smith, ultimatley helped lead this team there. THAT in itself should end all of this Kap vs Smith nonsense that even I have participated in. But knowing some here, Kap leading this team to the SB, possibly even winning it, STILL may not even be enough. Guess it won't truly end until we trade or release Smith next season. If that's the case, then all of this stuff should be coming to an end soon. Thank God.

In this year's NFCC game we won the turnover battle, last year we didn't. You can't deny that having experienced those 2 games in the playoffs last year has helped this team and it's coaching staff tremendously. This will end when people stop degrading what Alex has done and understand what he's gone through. Kap is lucky to be in the situation he's in and I'm glad he's worked hard to become the starter and continues to improve. BTW, Harbaugh lead this team to the SB, not Kap.

Originally posted by paperplanemedia:

Originally posted by KaepernickFan:
Win or lose, (obviously praying we win) the bottom line is Kap has gotten us to the SB, something Alex has never been able to do in his 8 yr career with us. Some may argue that this yrs team is better then last yrs, but regardless if that's true or not, no one can deny that our team was very good last yr, perhaps built to go to the SB. And what happened? We came up short.

There is no guarantee that if Smith never got hurt, he would of lead us to a 11-4-1 record, get the #2 seed, and beat the Packers and help this team make an epic comeback from 17 points down in a very hostile environment (Falcons) and eventually go on and win the game. Say what you want, but there was also no guarantee that just because we have a very good team this yr, a 2nd yr QB with very little experience would be able to lead this team to the SB. I mean cmon. I don't care how good we are. That is amazing for any young QB to do regardless of how good his team is.

It's been stated numerous times that right now and in the future, Kap is already an overall better QB then Alex Smith. Has a lot better arm strength, accuracy is just as good if not better than Smith's, better pocket presence, better poise and leadership, and obviously is a heck of a lot more mobile then Smith is. Like I said in the beginning, whether we win or lose the SB, the fact remains that Kap, not Alex Smith, ultimatley helped lead this team there. THAT in itself should end all of this Kap vs Smith nonsense that even I have participated in. But knowing some here, Kap leading this team to the SB, possibly even winning it, STILL may not even be enough. Guess it won't truly end until we trade or release Smith next season. If that's the case, then all of this stuff should be coming to an end soon. Thank God.

In this year's NFCC game we won the turnover battle, last year we didn't. You can't deny that having experienced those 2 games in the playoffs last year has helped this team and it's coaching staff tremendously. This will end when people stop degrading what Alex has done and understand what he's gone through. Kap is lucky to be in the situation he's in and I'm glad he's worked hard to become the starter and continues to improve. BTW, Harbaugh lead this team to the SB, not Kap.

True. But we also didn't have to come back from a 17 point defecit just to stay in the game/eventually win it. I'm not degrading anything that Alex did. I like Alex. If it wasn't for him helping us get to a 6-2 record early on, who knows where we would be right now. So obviously I give him credit for that. All I'm saying is that we had just as good of a team last yr, if not better then this yrs, and regardless of the TO ratio in that game, Alex couldn't get it done. God forbid we were down 17 points against the Gmen last yr. We needed those TO's last week just to even get back into the ball game.

And yes, Harbaugh and the rest of our coaching staff was a huge part in why we're in the SB right now. BUT so is all of our players, including Kap. If it wasn't for a lot of his throws and runs, we wouldn't be in the SB right now.

Originally posted by verb1der:

lol what's so funny?

Originally posted by KaepernickFan:
True. But we also didn't have to come back from a 17 point defecit just to stay in the game/eventually win it. I'm not degrading anything that Alex did. I like Alex. If it wasn't for him helping us get to a 6-2 record early on, who knows where we would be right now. So obviously I give him credit for that. All I'm saying is that we had just as good of a team last yr, if not better then this yrs, and regardless of the TO ratio in that game, Alex couldn't get it done. God forbid we were down 17 points against the Gmen last yr. We needed those TO's last week just to even get back into the ball game.

And yes, Harbaugh and the rest of our coaching staff was a huge part in why we're in the SB right now. BUT so is all of our players, including Kap. If it wasn't for a lot of his throws and runs, we wouldn't be in the SB right now.

Last year's team was NOT as good as this year even QBs aside. Last year we had two PS WRs that are not in the NFL today, we had Walker with his mouth all wired up, and we had Gore who was not near 100% like he is this season (and again, Hunter had not really shown as much as he had earlier this season). The defense is also better because they've had another season to work together and gel even more.

So unless you're going to tell me that Swain > Moss and that an unhealthy Gore and Walker are > than the healthy versions...Oh...and that our o-line hasn't improved from last year...then I don't understand the basis of this comment.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by KaepernickFan:
True. But we also didn't have to come back from a 17 point defecit just to stay in the game/eventually win it. I'm not degrading anything that Alex did. I like Alex. If it wasn't for him helping us get to a 6-2 record early on, who knows where we would be right now. So obviously I give him credit for that. All I'm saying is that we had just as good of a team last yr, if not better then this yrs, and regardless of the TO ratio in that game, Alex couldn't get it done. God forbid we were down 17 points against the Gmen last yr. We needed those TO's last week just to even get back into the ball game.

And yes, Harbaugh and the rest of our coaching staff was a huge part in why we're in the SB right now. BUT so is all of our players, including Kap. If it wasn't for a lot of his throws and runs, we wouldn't be in the SB right now.

Last year's team was NOT as good as this year even QBs aside. Last year we had two PS WRs that are not in the NFL today, we had Walker with his mouth all wired up, and we had Gore who was not near 100% like he is this season (and again, Hunter had not really shown as much as he had earlier this season). The defense is also better because they've had another season to work together and gel even more.

So unless you're going to tell me that Swain > Moss and that an unhealthy Gore and Walker are > than the healthy versions...Oh...and that our o-line hasn't improved from last year...then I don't understand the basis of this comment.

That's fair enoguh. Like I said previously, whether ppl believe this yrs team is better then last yrs team, the fact remains that it's extremely hard for any QB to get his team to the SB. And esp in this case with a 2nd yr QB with only 9 career starts under his belt. Another fact is regardless if this team really is better then last yrs, Kap, not Alex Smith, has helped lead this to the SB. Alex has never done that. But whatever...all of this Kap vs Smith talk should/will go away once we trade or cut Smith next season.

Originally posted by KaepernickFan:
That's fair enoguh. Like I said previously, whether ppl believe this yrs team is better then last yrs team, the fact remains that it's extremely hard for any QB to get his team to the SB. And esp in this case with a 2nd yr QB with only 9 career starts under his belt. Another fact is regardless if this team really is better then last yrs, Kap, not Alex Smith, has helped lead this to the SB. Alex has never done that. But whatever...all of this Kap vs Smith talk should/will go away once we trade or cut Smith next season.

Alex did half the work...unless you think the first half the season didn't matter....he's also still mentoring Colin...gotta admire his team first mentality...

but you're right that Colin, not Alex will get all of the credit..you've just proven that.

Why is it okay to mention Kaepernick in this thread, but not Alex in the Kaepernick thread? It is mind boggling to me how some people just can't let go of the hate for Alex. We would not be in the Super Bowl if it weren't for all of the things that he has done the past two seasons. And for him to make those sacrifices, with all that happened to him in the prior years, should make people thankful. It won't matter if he plays even one snap in the Super Bowl, he will have earned his ring.

Let it go guys. It's okay to like Kaepernick, think he's better, but NOT disparage Alex Smith.