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Smith, Tolzien thread. Yet again

Born49er,
Hey man, the 49ers are a huge part of our lives, no denying it. And the people within the organization have a legacy to write; they have a franchise giving every ounce of energy to boast Lombardi trophys; they have a responsibility to bring a winning team to the OWNERS of the team first, and then the fanbase.

The FO and coaches and scouts and assistants and trainers work to bring the best out of players and expect the best in return from the players.

Jim Harbaugh did exactly his expertise in placing the best players in position for us fans to experience a winning team, and we have that NOW! Through Harbaugh expecting hard work, taking care of each other, preparation and passion on the field with his players.

Theres no bad ethics involved with the 49ers, or bad message sent to Alex or the NFL because of a switch at qb that greatly made our team simply better. And if you believe what you said earlier, you really should look into the history of the 49ers' actions.

Harbaugh has given Smith more teaching and gifts for his football career than he could have ever received from anyone else in the entire National Football League. Harbaugh should get a thankyou from you and I if anything.


Pin this s**t Mods!
Yes, Alex has substantial leverage. Of course, if he sits out, he will forego pay, but if he values his long term career, he needs to be prepared to use all available leverage, even if it involves missing some pay. He needs to be free to go elsewhere where he can start. The longer he sits as a backup, the more the perception takes hold that he is only "backup quality."

No one on this board knows what kind of interest other teams would have shown toward Alex had they understood that he was willing to leave the 49ers and was seriously willing to entertain offers. This is another example of how Alex's unwillingness to resort to strategic posturing undermined his interests. He was pretty straightforward about wanting to stay put, and the league understood that he really wanted to stay in SF. So they didn't waste their time in making him an offer.
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

Just what in the f**k are you talking about? Are you off your meds?

i understood it, you might be off yours.
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

Just what in the f**k are you talking about? Are you off your meds?

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

Just what in the f**k are you talking about? Are you off your meds?

i understood it, you might be off yours.

I understood it as well. Doesn't make it rational though.
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by 80849er4life:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.

Smith sucked and cant carry the team......next subject already, I feel that the same thing gets said over and over again cant wait to trade this guy already.....

So why even come to this thread?

Because the thread is about Smith and Tolzien

So you're tired of reading about him but you still come to his thread? OK
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

Just what in the f**k are you talking about? Are you off your meds?

i understood it, you might be off yours.


Originally posted by KegBert:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

Just what in the f**k are you talking about? Are you off your meds?

i understood it, you might be off yours.

I understood it as well. Doesn't make it rational though.

Exactly
Originally posted by SFL49ER:
Born49er,
Hey man, the 49ers are a huge part of our lives, no denying it. And the people within the organization have a legacy to write; they have a franchise giving every ounce of energy to boast Lombardi trophys; they have a responsibility to bring a winning team to the OWNERS of the team first, and then the fanbase.

The FO and coaches and scouts and assistants and trainers work to bring the best out of players and expect the best in return from the players.

Jim Harbaugh did exactly his expertise in placing the best players in position for us fans to experience a winning team, and we have that NOW! Through Harbaugh expecting hard work, taking care of each other, preparation and passion on the field with his players.

Theres no bad ethics involved with the 49ers, or bad message sent to Alex or the NFL because of a switch at qb that greatly made our team simply better. And if you believe what you said earlier, you really should look into the history of the 49ers' actions.

Harbaugh has given Smith more teaching and gifts for his football career than he could have ever received from anyone else in the entire National Football League. Harbaugh should get a thankyou from you and I if anything.


Pin this s**t Mods!
Well said and I get all that. I'm beginning to think my point is too subtle or I just haven't expressed it well enough. My concern for the team is about replacing a player who was out due to a concussion.
It is not just about replacing one player with a superior one. Walsh did that all of the time. This isn't about me siding with Alex Smith.
I just think there was a better way to handle replacing Smith than the way it was done and wouldn't have sent a mixed message to the other players.
If Smith had had a shoulder or leg injury he was coming off of I wouldn't be trying to make this argument.
I have not had a problem with Harbaugh until now. Given the supposed concern for the players by the league regarding concussions, I just think he could have handled it better for the teams sake. I understand I'm picking nits here and ultimately it may not matter one whit.
The NFL is a business. If you don't win, you are gone. Jerry Glanville once said the NFL stands for Not For Long. Harbaugh made a choice based on what was best for the TEAM. It was never about owing anyone anything. Alex isn't owed anything and he knows that. I thank him for what he has done but he was replaced by a superior player.
Originally posted by Born49R:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
I really don't understand people being mad about Smith not getting his "storybook" ending. And I don't understand people being angry at Harbaugh for making the switch, when it is obvious Kaepernick is the better player. And all this talk about ethics is hilarious, this the NFL, players get replaced all the time.
Since I am the one who mentioned ethics I have to take you to task on this. I don't give a damn about Smith's storybook ending. But to say that in life in general or, as this case in business, one should not behave ethically is ludicrous. That is what is wrong with this country and our government also, people like you who don't believe in behaving ethically because it doesn't suit there endgame. I am not angry with the switch, just the way it was handled and the bad message it sends to the other players because of Smiths concussion. You probably stick up for Lance Armstrong as well.

This is strictly business, thats all. I always said that Alex had reached his potential or ceiling and if he had any left it wasn't very much. Colin's on other hand was so much greater and he has shown that. Even now, Kaep is still a ways to go. It'll be another two years before he does reach it and that is scary. He has surpased Alex. The better person was left in thats all. If you don't put the better person in, you let yourself (harbaugh) the other players, the front office and ownership down.

This is life, only the fitist survive. As Spock would say, the needs of the many outweight the needs of the few or the one. Sure, you'd like everyone to be happy happy joy joy, but players get replaced and lose their jobs all the time after injuries. If the Niners were not doing good the last year and a half, no one would have batted an eye. However, they were and Alex did better than he ever has. Along with Alex being a nice guy working out during the strike w/o a contract, that has put Alex in a lot of peoples hearts. Still, it was because of the defense and ST for the majority part of it that the niners were successful with AS doing his part from time to time. I have also said that no one here or in the media, if Kaep had what it takes or was ready other than the staff. Some (not all) of the same guys that back Alex also have talked about replacing players that started last year that did well, so why not Alex?

When JH was hired we all either hoped or believed that he knew QBs, its his job to put the best product on the field, yes we didn't know back then, but Harbaugh felt he did. Maybe, some would feel better, if he was straight up with the public/media and Alex when he decided to leave Kaep in and said Kaep is my man and I feel he is the better QB. However, JH doesn't want to tactless and say it and hurt a players confidence, after all, if Kaep got hurt, AS would have to play, and when AS leaves the team, he will still have some confidence intact and not totally destroyed.

This has nothing to do with Lance Armstrong and others like him, LA cheated and violated the rules! There was none violated here, the rule of not losing a job because of injuries is a falacy as I said, it is only because of AS's position (QB) and standing (good guy), the teams position (playoff team) and it being in the middle of the season, but it has happened to others. The rule is like the unwritten rule of not dating your best friends sister, not a real rule, just one of decorum to help keep things a little civilized. In the end, is it fair to Kaep if he is better, that we follow this rule?
Originally posted by Born49R:
Well said and I get all that. I'm beginning to think my point is too subtle or I just haven't expressed it well enough. My concern for the team is about replacing a player who was out due to a concussion.
It is not just about replacing one player with a superior one. Walsh did that all of the time. This isn't about me siding with Alex Smith.
I just think there was a better way to handle replacing Smith than the way it was done and wouldn't have sent a mixed message to the other players.
If Smith had had a shoulder or leg injury he was coming off of I wouldn't be trying to make this argument.
I have not had a problem with Harbaugh until now. Given the supposed concern for the players by the league regarding concussions, I just think he could have handled it better for the teams sake. I understand I'm picking nits here and ultimately it may not matter one whit.


Okay, with concussions the problem is that it can't be seen or measured like other physical injuries, but it is still an injury and if you get replaced permanently by someone during that time, it is no different. It is up to the player to look out for himself and his future health. JH may have done AS a big favor by not putting him in there for the rest of the season. The other point is that if he played like Joe, Steve, Brady etc, do you think we would have this conversation? No, it is what it is.
Originally posted by ninermedic:
Originally posted by dj43:
Larry Krueger, one of the staff at KNBR in San Francisco, had some interesting comments yesterday on Alex Smith's situation with the 49ers. He noted all the back and forth, particularly in the area that "the 49ers should do the right thing by Alex and reward him with a free release so he could find the best possible situation for him." So he decided to "use my sources with the 49ers" to see what their position might be.

What he learned was that Harbaalke is likely to play hardball with Smith in the offseason. They believe he is worth a 1st or at least a 2nd round draft choice and will try to trade him for such. However, they will not trade him to Arizona and would prefer to trade him to an AFC team if possible. If they cannot find a suitable trading partner, they will keep him as backup next season (the last of his current 3 year contract). They believe they can win a Super Bowl with this current roster and Smith as QB though they obviously prefer Kaepernick. They know that most of their key players are at the peak of their careers and the time to win it all is now. Therefore they are not willing to take a chance on Tolzien or some other rookie or FA. Smith's $8MILLION salary is less than over half the starting QBs in the league and roughly $2MILLION more than the backup average. Considering the quality of Alex' potential play in relief of an injured Kaepernick, they believe that keeping him on the roster would be worthwhile investment to assure that they can put a SB ring on the hands of players now on the roster. IOW, they are willing to go all in to win this season and next while Willis, Bowman, Crabtree and friends are healthy and at their prime.

I'm a bit skeptical of this, simply because some of the most basic details are incorrect. Next season is not the last year of his three year contract, this was the first year of the new contract (remember he was a FA in the offseason, went to Miami etc), so next year is the second year of three.


Well, it makes sense when you think about this, we are in the post season and with FA and the draft only a couple months away, it makes sense to throw this smokescreen out, to make people think if they want a QB. Especially since this year is a piss poor year for QBs in the draft on paper.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i do not think he is our back up for next year. i think you bring in a vet. if alex was not here and ck got hurt, i would not feel good


Tolzien can handle it. Have you watched him play? There is a reason they call him "baby Drew Brees."


Against third stringers? He is still an unknown quantity, ONLY JH and co. know for sure, as for the nick name, remember the TE had two nicknames? Yet was replace by Celek? Hard to say.
Let us wait to see after the post season is over. You can speculate all you want and I know it is fun, but there are so many variables that affect what the niners will do and we really don't what they are thinking as they always surprise us don't they. If you think you knew the previous two years, this year is even more hard to fanthom. Dashon, Alex, both affect one another, is Tolz the real deal (only JH knows), all the other FA losses that we will take, we will be moving up and down the draft. that is for sure and if we get a pick for AS that is really going to make it interesting. We may not have both DG and AS. Are the players that we drafted and were injured pan out?

Plus after next year, if Kaep does well, niners might want to extend and lock him up. The niners are always in the now, but with their eyes on the future.
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Born49R:
Well said and I get all that. I'm beginning to think my point is too subtle or I just haven't expressed it well enough. My concern for the team is about replacing a player who was out due to a concussion.
It is not just about replacing one player with a superior one. Walsh did that all of the time. This isn't about me siding with Alex Smith.
I just think there was a better way to handle replacing Smith than the way it was done and wouldn't have sent a mixed message to the other players.
If Smith had had a shoulder or leg injury he was coming off of I wouldn't be trying to make this argument.
I have not had a problem with Harbaugh until now. Given the supposed concern for the players by the league regarding concussions, I just think he could have handled it better for the teams sake. I understand I'm picking nits here and ultimately it may not matter one whit.


Okay, with concussions the problem is that it can't be seen or measured like other physical injuries, but it is still an injury and if you get replaced permanently by someone during that time, it is no different. It is up to the player to look out for himself and his future health. JH may have done AS a big favor by not putting him in there for the rest of the season. The other point is that if he played like Joe, Steve, Brady etc, do you think we would have this conversation? No, it is what it is.
Ah, yes I couldn't agree more. It is what it is. Namaste.