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Colin Kaepernick and the 'bug-eye', 'diamond', 'full house pistol

Originally posted by jreff22:
was getting a response ready prior to reading that lol

And also can they take a hit and hold onto the ball if they are pitched the ball... it's heavy traffic. But anyways, doesn't mean we have to pitch them the ball... they can run out into the flats and catch balls or even motion out to wr pre snap or come in from wr and line up back there... could be a hand off around the edge.. just thinking out loud as having one of those guys back there besides miller/tukuafu, gore and james might give defenses something else to think about.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Dec 12, 2012 at 12:17 AM ]
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by jreff22:
was getting a response ready prior to reading that lol

And also can they take a hit and hold onto the ball if they are pitched the ball... it's heavy traffic. But anyways, doesn't mean we have to pitch them the ball... they can run out into the flats and catch balls or even motion out to wr pre snap or come in from wr and line up back there... could be a hand off around the edge.. just thinking out loud as having one of those guys back there besides miller/tukuafu, gore and james might give defenses something else to think about.
Gore isnt fast enough to worry a DB
Originally posted by jreff22:
Gore isnt fast enough to worry a DB

I was more so talking about the te's or wrs shifting to or from the pistol formation. Still if you want to talk about Gore motioning out from any formation to me you still have to consider it a win if he takes a DB with him. Means one less DB for the WRs. Of course it leaves the LBs open to cover and probably not worry about the rn but usually there is a mismatch there. If the LB goes with Gore and the db's stay it might leave the middle of the field a little more open for a run up the middle. Hopefully that made sense but I am just thinking out loud. There are endless possibilities and the more you give the defense to think about and prepare for the better off you are because obviously they can't spend as much time on each thing. Side note... makes you wonder is it worth it to work on all these formations and give the defense more to prepare for or just focus on one thing (or a few things) and prefect it and have a don't care if you know what we are running try to stop us type of mentality.
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Gore isnt fast enough to worry a DB

I was more so talking about the te's or wrs shifting to or from the pistol formation. Still if you want to talk about Gore motioning out from any formation to me you still have to consider it a win if he takes a DB with him. Means one less DB for the WRs. Of course it leaves the LBs open to cover and probably not worry about the rn but usually there is a mismatch there. If the LB goes with Gore and the db's stay it might leave the middle of the field a little more open for a run up the middle. Hopefully that made sense but I am just thinking out loud. There are endless possibilities and the more you give the defense to think about and prepare for the better off you are because obviously they can't spend as much time on each thing. Side note... makes you wonder is it worth it to work on all these formations and give the defense more to prepare for or just focus on one thing (or a few things) and prefect it and have a don't care if you know what we are running try to stop us type of mentality.

I think the more they focus on this stupid set the more it will handcuff us in the future. Just run a single back, I, or pro set and call it a day.
Originally posted by jreff22:
I think the more they focus on this stupid set the more it will handcuff us in the future. Just run a single back, I, or pro set and call it a day.

or focus on the passing game more I'm open to anything but I hope they don't turn the option or pistol into a staple. I'd like to see us work on running and stopping the screen game. Also, like I mentioned ways to get the ball in Crabtree, manningham, jenkins and james' hands and let them use their shiftiness. Vernon too, just anything to get him involved in the game... even if it's a few yard catches here and there
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Dec 12, 2012 at 12:46 AM ]
Picture this: Bug-eye formation. QB pre-snap read is blitz w/man coverage behind it. Checks to play where players on both sides of QB flare into the flat. He picks one. Could be #23, #21, #46, #85...or #19. Most likely it would be 21 in traditional pistol position behind QB who would remain in the backfield to take on blitz. Flats would be open, putting #23 or #46 in space with the football, looking for them to make first guy miss and then off to the races.

The bug-eye is going to challenge outside linebackers with one-on-one matchups in the flat against whoever lines up on either side of the QB.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by jreff22:
was getting a response ready prior to reading that lol

And also can they take a hit and hold onto the ball if they are pitched the ball... it's heavy traffic. But anyways, doesn't mean we have to pitch them the ball... they can run out into the flats and catch balls or even motion out to wr pre snap or come in from wr and line up back there... could be a hand off around the edge.. just thinking out loud as having one of those guys back there besides miller/tukuafu, gore and james might give defenses something else to think about.
Gore isnt fast enough to worry a DB

Really? Any time Gore gets to the second level of a defense, I can promise you that every single DB on the field is worried. Good post Jreff.
My first post. . . .

I don't mind this formation. But I would like to see us mix in more explosive personnel. On Sunday we saw a lot of Crabtree and Davis in the WR spot with Walker, Miller and Gore/James in the backfield. Going with this 22 personnel helps dictate the D to more of a heavy set which can create passing opportunities. But I think I'd prefer to see Walker AND Davis in the backfield with either James or Gore and Crabtree with either Moss/Manningham/Jenkins out wide. That's more of a pass threat with three legit targets coming out of the backfield. It also allows for solid run options as Walker and Davis can both block.

My sense is the coaches may have gone more to the Pistol because of the comments from the Rams LBs after that game. One of them said the motions and the shifts of the 49er players tipped whether we were running or passing so they could sell out on that. By going with a static, symmetrical formation like the pistol/diamond/bugeye or whatever you reduce the risk of tipping your hand. The trick then becomes more creative playcalling or design.

Of course it could also be to force the D to congest in the middle and then hit the edges with all kinds of speed. Kaep even as the threat of a keeper run should slow down back side pursuit and stop LBs from dropping back as quickly into coverage on a play action from this.
The bug eye is fine for a change of pace maybe 2 or 3 times a game but I don't want to see this crap for anything more than that.

Its great now cause nobody else is doing it but after a DC gets some film and say has time in the playoffs to game plan against it we will not fool anybody.

Plus, its gonna get Kap killed on one of these plays. Some DC is gonna tell a lb or de to just slam Kap on any of these plays and forget anything else. No running qb last very long. The D players are too big and too fast these days and the hits are gonna take their toll.
Jreff, I like it, but like you, making major changes with a green rook is really foolish. Work on it next yr in Tc and PS.
Originally posted by NinerG94:
Really? Any time Gore gets to the second level of a defense, I can promise you that every single DB on the field is worried. Good post Jreff.

He was talking about if Gore motioned out to WR and went out for a pass not him breaking to the second level on a run.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Dec 12, 2012 at 1:05 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerG94:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Gore_21:
Originally posted by jreff22:
was getting a response ready prior to reading that lol

And also can they take a hit and hold onto the ball if they are pitched the ball... it's heavy traffic. But anyways, doesn't mean we have to pitch them the ball... they can run out into the flats and catch balls or even motion out to wr pre snap or come in from wr and line up back there... could be a hand off around the edge.. just thinking out loud as having one of those guys back there besides miller/tukuafu, gore and james might give defenses something else to think about.
Gore isnt fast enough to worry a DB

Really? Any time Gore gets to the second level of a defense, I can promise you that every single DB on the field is worried. Good post Jreff.
I guess you dont understand the difference between running the ball and getting to the 2nd level and going out for a pass against a DB.....didn't learn that in flag football did you?
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Jreff, I like it, but like you, making major changes with a green rook is really foolish. Work on it next yr in Tc and PS.

Dont have time to wait. This formation can be broken down and defended easily. Its a big reason why the read option doesn't really work in the NFL. The D is too fast and smart to be fooled on a consistent basis. Taking away the TE and a 3rd option at WR and replacing them with RB's or a WR (Ginn) hampers the O. You are putting a WR in an unnatural position (see Ginn) or making a RB go out for a pass. Bring the CB's up to jam the WR's and have the SS play the next dangerous guy you can defend this easily. The problem is you keep the weapons bottled up in the backfield and run the risk of having inadequate personnel on the field for a decent audible. If they line up in this set say with Gore, VD, and James and motion out to a pro set it can work. But with Gore, Miller, and Tufuku (sp) you aren't fooling anybody. None are fast enough to beat a DB or most athletic LB's....might as well run the jumbo and get a -2 yard gain.

We are trying to get cute again with these formations and I dont like the cute s**t.
[ Edited by jreff22 on Dec 12, 2012 at 1:18 PM ]
I use the diamond formation a lot on madden, except i use all RB's. Having Gore, Hunter, and LMJ coming out of the backfield = unstoppable
Complete crap. I can't stand the pistol offense.