There are 77 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Harbaugh's coaching calls?

Wow, to have shot your wad on disputed calls, not to mention T.O.s with 14 mins remaining, is there a problem here? Kap is having a heckuva time reading the D sets, then when he finally does, he blows about 8-10 seconds changing the play and 3 times in first half, ran out of time and once was saved by Harbaugh's timeout. Then a challenge on an out of bounds catch which was ruled a catch, and big Jim was without any T.O.s rest of first half.

2nd half, calls T.Os. to prevent Kap from getting another 5yd penalty for delay of game, while trying madly to get play changed, and not beating the clock. Harbaugh saved him twice, and called T.O. to review a play called. NO chance for review of any more plays, incl the questionable catch in the EZone. Man, this is the result of Kap learning to read and then change plays at LOS, something better done in PS and TC. But Coach made the call to start Kap and now he is having to endure the expected confusion for a rook qB learning reads and play changes late in last few games of season. Will this weakness be the thing that denies of a SB bid or SB win this yr? Because if so, then JImbo made a bad call. Kap does not seem to be learning how to recognize D and then get play changed in time. Against anyone but Dolphins a few others it could have been catastrophic.

So what is the answer here? Coach can't continue to burn T.O.s to save 5 yrd penalties on Kap for his slowness in getting a new play called. Should he just go ahead and call the play that was sent in and not change plays? Honestly today that seems to have been a better plan than allowing kap to stew with D recongnition and then slowly changing play calls. I don't see us making the cut for the NFC title like this and am curious what others think of this not to very good situation we find ourselves in. Any suggestions?
Kaep should look at the play clock once in a while. Work faster.

It is a fixable problem. Maybe the play isn't coming in fast enough.
[ Edited by AXEGRINDER on Dec 9, 2012 at 6:43 PM ]
First of all, they need to get to the line faster. They routinely get to the line with about 12 seconds on the play clock. Get there quicker and you'll see the defense quicker. That's the first step.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,347
The problem was discussed in the Greg Roman thread a bit. We apparently have 3 different play callers on offense. Greg Roman on running plays, Johnny Morton on passing plays and Geep Chryst in the red zone(or i misunderstood and it was only game planning that they are responsible for and Roman selects from their game plans) then the play call is sent to Harbaugh where it is OK'ed or vetoed and it goes through the entire process again.

Then add that to a young QB having to read the defense and possible audible and use terrible audible calls that take 3 seconds to say 1 time like "Brown Bear Oil"(Seriously wtf is with that?) so there is an obvious reason for why it takes so long to get a play snapped.
Often, the changed play goes nowhere, which makes me think defenses are clever enough to line up one way, knowing that the play will be re-set to go the other way, but they know that and are ready for it.

This whole kill, kill, kill thing is annoyingt. It is ok to change a play, but the whole drama of having to set every offensive players position seems excessive at best.
like Carlgo is saying..

also...defenses are showing us one coverage..wait for us to kill kill kill...then they quickly change to the opposite coverage....which causes Colin to change to let it roll...all this happening with like 6 seconds left.

we kind of adjusted later in the second half...we seemed to get to the line with about 15-20 secs left...and that helpped.

otherwise I wish we get away from trying to call the "perfect* play whenever the defenses shifts around.........so I don't know either get to the LOS earlier or stick with one play. Also when you wait till the last second to snap the ball, the defense gets a good jump on the snap...which results in being in better position to get pressure.
This is a real problem. CK Is playing well but the team does not run as smoothly with him at QB. Alex often audibled into a big gain but Kaep has not yet learned to do that yet. And the loss of TO's was exacerbated by Harbaugh's dumb challenge. Hopefully Kaep will learn.
  • RKab
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,397
There's clearly an issue somewhere in getting the plays off in time. Smith had these issues last year as well.

I do think Harbaugh and co. clearly look like they are over-thinking things at times. Sometimes you need to just line up and let your better talent do its thing. Today was a game where SF clearly had the better talent but spent a lot of time being "cute".
I think they need to simplify things a little bit just too much s**t going on. they just out smarting themselves.
You can't challenge the catch in the endzone. That is done upstairs. Had nothing to do with us having no timeouts left.
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Kaep should look at the play clock once in a while. Work faster.

It is a fixable problem. Maybe the play isn't coming in fast enough.
I agree. Kaepernick needs work on his clock management.. The 49ers have been bad at this for awhile now. Last year was not all that great either. Harbaugh even looks lost at times. I hope they fix this soon.
  • Eeks
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 116
He needs to pick it up, but...
1. Why must we change players on every play?? Its 3 ppl in 3 ppl out
2. Calls are discussed between coaches then Harbaugh make final approval instead of one guy calling plays
3. There are 2 play calls on every play, thats why u get "kill kill kill" or "let it roll"

This is a complex and time consuming system
Originally posted by sfout:
The problem was discussed in the Greg Roman thread a bit. We apparently have 3 different play callers on offense. Greg Roman on running plays, Johnny Morton on passing plays and Geep Chryst in the red zone(or i misunderstood and it was only game planning that they are responsible for and Roman selects from their game plans) then the play call is sent to Harbaugh where it is OK'ed or vetoed and it goes through the entire process again.

Then add that to a young QB having to read the defense and possible audible and use terrible audible calls that take 3 seconds to say 1 time like "Brown Bear Oil"(Seriously wtf is with that?) so there is an obvious reason for why it takes so long to get a play snapped.


I don't think all three are calling plays. What I got from it was that all three had their share in forming the gameplan and are relegated to the duties you mentioned when doing so but on gameday it's Roman that calls the plays and like you said, it gets ok'ed by Harbaugh before it makes it on the field.
Well, as I recall, in college you have a bit more time to get the play off. Anybody looking at that horrocious game film yesterday, will see that the time elapsed is frustratingly long between the reset clock and the 24 second clock. Cut roman out of the chain. Let Coach H call the plays. Roman is about as good as he is bad, making some beautiful play calls followed by 3 awful ones. Get the clutter out of the HC to QB line, let Harbaugh call plays just like bellicheat does at NE. This bs of watching kap do the mexican hat dance, followed by confused players and delay of games is going to take a SB team out of contention if we have even one more game like this. Coach watches this film the same nite, the next day, and then again. Nobody with his skill sets would miss the total fustercluck that the delayed O calls are causing. We look confused and amateurish out there....well, because we are. And Harbaugh can fix that. Kap is slow on the uptake, frequently gets faked out by D line sets, that then switch back. Roman has screwed up enough times to make me wish he were gone, and Coach H, a phenomenal playcaller at stanford, should be making the calls....and Quick too. An easy way to help Kap would be the 2 minute O run from the gitgo.

As an addendum, I would love to see NO play changes called and see how that plays out. Also, when Ds stack the LOS, it should take a nod and a headshake to Crbs, vernon, randy, LMJ, delanie, to look for a quick hitter over the middle or a slant.

As an alternative, have kap backup one or two steps in the pistol, ( which we will ultimately run 95% of the time, once they understand it), and give kap that extra added time to see what the rt side of the Dline is doing and on a run play, just don't give frank the ball, step back and beat the D over the middle with a 1 stepper pass. Won't go into pistol here, but that is tailor made for kap and would help him in seeing the D's move once ball is snapped. I think it will give him a huge advantage , exactly like shannahan has RG3 doing. Just a thot.
My observation are the first two games CK7 played were much faster pace, they got to the line quick snapped the ball quick and were passing a lot and CK7 fired the ball off fast it was kinda like they let CK7 just go out there and play his own style to see what he could do.

After those first two games we went right back to playing like when Alex is in there much slower pace, bad clock management poor pass protection and run on first and second down setting up 3rd and long and mostly 3 and outs I was really getting down on Alex when he was playing because of this but at this point I'm convinced we have bad play calling going on I am starting to put this squarely on JH and Roman they need to get it together fast!!
[ Edited by Niner_Fan on Dec 10, 2012 at 8:21 AM ]