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Football Outsiders Breaks Down the 49ers-Rams Game in Detail

Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Not a stretch in the slightest on the questionable formation and personnel decision, and no, people aren't making it out to be worse than it was. It was as bad as they get.

Also Ginn in any offensive formation, where the play is designed to go his way is a bad choice. Ginn has no buisness being on the field with the offense. Ever. Been that way for years.

His pass-catching abilities deserved to be questioned but not his ability to run out in space. The play was obviously intended to give Ginn the ability to make some happen in that regard. We ran several end arounds to Ginn in the past that have gone for a considerable gain. I am just not buying the argument that the play call had absolutely no ryme or reason. Could they have made a better choice? Absolutely no question about it. But at the same time if Kap simply made a better pitch and Ginn was able to gain any yardage on the play it obviously would not have been scrutinized as much.
Originally posted by goodthings19:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Not a stretch in the slightest on the questionable formation and personnel decision, and no, people aren't making it out to be worse than it was. It was as bad as they get.

Also Ginn in any offensive formation, where the play is designed to go his way is a bad choice. Ginn has no buisness being on the field with the offense. Ever. Been that way for years.

His pass-catching abilities deserved to be questioned but not his ability to run out in space. The play was obviously intended to give Ginn the ability to make some happen in that regard. We ran several end arounds to Ginn in the past that have gone for a considerable gain. I am just not buying the argument that the play call had absolutely no ryme or reason. Could they have made a better choice? Absolutely no question about it. But at the same time if Kap simply made a better pitch and Ginn was able to gain any yardage on the play it obviously would not have been scrutinized as much.

Cool man. you obviously have your opinion and i have mine. Have to agree to disagree i guess.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Harbaugh didnt call the play.

He just failed to veto it.

If you want to flaw him its being too trusting. Im sure he thiught wtf when roman dialed it up

Thats why i have been saying Harbaugh needs to take a more hands on approach to play calling instead of bickering with officials all game. I love his passion for the game, but its time to take a more hands on approach to his offense. This is not the first game of the Harbaugh/roman era where roman has made a questionable call and Harbaugh failed to veto it.

I am Mike Nolan and I approve this post. Besides do you want a great coaching staff with bone head calls once in a while or my staff where good calls could be termed as "shear luck"?.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by jcashen87:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Thats why i have been saying Harbaugh needs to take a more hands on approach to play calling instead of bickering with officials all game. I love his passion for the game, but its time to take a more hands on approach to his offense. This is not the first game of the Harbaugh/roman era where roman has made a questionable call and Harbaugh failed to veto it.

Roman has been the most brilliant OC in the NFL at times this year - observers of the NFL and fans of other teams have said so. "Perfectly-called run plays", for example. "More play call variety than anyone".

Wrong. The diverse run formations are a product of the play book. Not play calling. His actual game planning and play calling have been mediocre at time's. The diversity comes from being able to make adjustments at the line. I dont know if they are limiting Kaep in this regard, or if he is just not as efficient at finding the correct call at the LOS as Smith.

Just because he has the most diverse playbook in the NFL doesnt mean he is using it right.

Wasn't going to bring it up, but yeah I wonder this myself. How much of this offense is done through adjustments at the line? Many times we see these big runs or even big pass plays are due in part to a "kill, Kill" or "let it roll". I'm just really not sure if this is a big part of the offense or not. Should Kaep. be making more adjustments? Or like you say, is he not given the freedom too?

And these checks, are they from run to another run play or pass to another pass play or if the original play was a pass, he can switch it to a run and vice versa.

I ask b/c for the Rams game, it was beyond obvious the Rams would crowd the LOS and stack 8-9 guys in there (many run blitzing the A-gaps) yet no matter what CK called "kill" or "roll" we STILL just ran and ran right into a brick wall.

Does anyone know?

Both more than likely.

More than likely Roman makes a pair of calls. At the LOS the QB has a choice between those two calls weather two runs, a pass/run, or to passes.

But each of those calls have adjustments based on what the WR's, Olineman, and QB's see. So there is still even alot of variance between the two play calls. Routes based on coverage, blocking schemes based on Dline gap placement etc.

Its been said ROman usually gives them a pass play and a run play to choose from, i wish we had someone out there that could call any play as an audible at any time instead of just killing one or letting it roll with the other. There may be times where different audibles are called, i think against the Rams i heard CK say something like "Black 59 razor" not those words but a play call at the line other than kill kill.

But i have to agree with Ncommand, in this game many times i saw CK saying let it roll or kill when they crowded the line, we ran on almost all of them i can remember through stretches that i remember, im not saying its CK's fault, but it just kept pissing me off when we would still run when there was 8 or sometimes 9 in the box.

These are situations where even though i have been Critical of ALex in the past i feel he does well in, getting to the right run play is something he is great at, passing ehh not so much all the time. In the BEars game i saw CK kill it into a pass play on several of the big gainers, but haven't seen that proficiency since.

I think we honestly have an inconsistency problem at OC/Playcalling, and that we dont have the trust to put the QB out there and let him dictate more than just two playcalls.

Yea i dunno what the issue is. Like i mentioned, i did notice Gore helping kaep get the correct call against the bears. Since then it seems like there has been less versatility to the play calls at the LOS.

Like i said i dont know if they are purposely handicapping Kaep to try to protect him, or if he is simply not making the correct adjustments at the LOS. Probably a little of both.
The issue is that Kap was making the wrong calls. Why is that not obvious to anyone? He simply lacks situational awareness and can't read anything but a base defense at this point. They had him completely confused. He's a young QB that struggles against a complicated defense. Like I said, look at his stats the 3 games he's started, he's gotten progressively worse each game, having been bailed out by the defense in two of the games, one of which he lost due to poor situational awareness and poor execution.

It's so easy to see.

Like I said, I hope he does well against Miami because I'm getting nervous now. With injuries adding up, and a young Kap at the helm, I'm biting my fingernails to the bone with worry.
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
The issue is that Kap was making the wrong calls. Why is that not obvious to anyone? He simply lacks situational awareness and can't read anything but a base defense at this point. They had him completely confused. He's a young QB that struggles against a complicated defense. Like I said, look at his stats the 3 games he's started, he's gotten progressively worse each game, having been bailed out by the defense in two of the games, one of which he lost due to poor situational awareness and poor execution.

It's so easy to see.

Like I said, I hope he does well against Miami because I'm getting nervous now. With injuries adding up, and a young Kap at the helm, I'm biting my fingernails to the bone with worry.

People will get offended by this post but there's some truth to this. I get really nervous when he barely gets the play called out and hikes the ball with 1 second to go. He has no time to make any presnap reads/adjustments and I worry that if the rest of the team got the play at all.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Cool man. you obviously have your opinion and i have mine. Have to agree to disagree i guess.

With all that being said, I thought the play calling throughout the entire game left alot to be desired
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
People will get offended by this post but there's some truth to this. I get really nervous when he barely gets the play called out and hikes the ball with 1 second to go. He has no time to make any presnap reads/adjustments and I worry that if the rest of the team got the play at all.

Do you remember 2011? How Many times Alex did that?!?!?
The whole "he's gotten progressively worse" thing is such a joke.

1st 4 games of this year.

Week 1 QB Rating: 125.6
Week 1 QB Rating: 107.7
Week 1 QB Rating :81.1
Week 1 QB Rating: 78.1

Guess the QB

Let the guy play more than one so-so game and we'll see where we are.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
People will get offended by this post but there's some truth to this. I get really nervous when he barely gets the play called out and hikes the ball with 1 second to go. He has no time to make any presnap reads/adjustments and I worry that if the rest of the team got the play at all.

Do you remember 2011? How Many times Alex did that?!?!?

Sure I remember, but is now the time to have our QB doing that?
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Young QB under center, coaches certainly didn't help him. Receivers certainly didn't. (Walker)

They were winning off the LOS more than ive seen this year
Originally posted by Squidp:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Young QB under center, coaches certainly didn't help him. Receivers certainly didn't. (Walker)

They were winning off the LOS more than ive seen this year

So I guess the whole "needing everything to be perfect" doesn't only apply to Alex?
Originally posted by truekingcarlos:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by jcashen87:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Thats why i have been saying Harbaugh needs to take a more hands on approach to play calling instead of bickering with officials all game. I love his passion for the game, but its time to take a more hands on approach to his offense. This is not the first game of the Harbaugh/roman era where roman has made a questionable call and Harbaugh failed to veto it.

Roman has been the most brilliant OC in the NFL at times this year - observers of the NFL and fans of other teams have said so. "Perfectly-called run plays", for example. "More play call variety than anyone".

Wrong. The diverse run formations are a product of the play book. Not play calling. His actual game planning and play calling have been mediocre at time's. The diversity comes from being able to make adjustments at the line. I dont know if they are limiting Kaep in this regard, or if he is just not as efficient at finding the correct call at the LOS as Smith.

Just because he has the most diverse playbook in the NFL doesnt mean he is using it right.

Wasn't going to bring it up, but yeah I wonder this myself. How much of this offense is done through adjustments at the line? Many times we see these big runs or even big pass plays are due in part to a "kill, Kill" or "let it roll". I'm just really not sure if this is a big part of the offense or not. Should Kaep. be making more adjustments? Or like you say, is he not given the freedom too?

And these checks, are they from run to another run play or pass to another pass play or if the original play was a pass, he can switch it to a run and vice versa.

I ask b/c for the Rams game, it was beyond obvious the Rams would crowd the LOS and stack 8-9 guys in there (many run blitzing the A-gaps) yet no matter what CK called "kill" or "roll" we STILL just ran and ran right into a brick wall.

Does anyone know?

Both more than likely.

More than likely Roman makes a pair of calls. At the LOS the QB has a choice between those two calls weather two runs, a pass/run, or to passes.

But each of those calls have adjustments based on what the WR's, Olineman, and QB's see. So there is still even alot of variance between the two play calls. Routes based on coverage, blocking schemes based on Dline gap placement etc.

Its been said ROman usually gives them a pass play and a run play to choose from, i wish we had someone out there that could call any play as an audible at any time instead of just killing one or letting it roll with the other. There may be times where different audibles are called, i think against the Rams i heard CK say something like "Black 59 razor" not those words but a play call at the line other than kill kill.

But i have to agree with Ncommand, in this game many times i saw CK saying let it roll or kill when they crowded the line, we ran on almost all of them i can remember through stretches that i remember, im not saying its CK's fault, but it just kept pissing me off when we would still run when there was 8 or sometimes 9 in the box.

These are situations where even though i have been Critical of ALex in the past i feel he does well in, getting to the right run play is something he is great at, passing ehh not so much all the time. In the BEars game i saw CK kill it into a pass play on several of the big gainers, but haven't seen that proficiency since.

I think we honestly have an inconsistency problem at OC/Playcalling, and that we dont have the trust to put the QB out there and let him dictate more than just two playcalls.

Yea i dunno what the issue is. Like i mentioned, i did notice Gore helping kaep get the correct call against the bears. Since then it seems like there has been less versatility to the play calls at the LOS.

Like i said i dont know if they are purposely handicapping Kaep to try to protect him, or if he is simply not making the correct adjustments at the LOS. Probably a little of both.
The issue is that Kap was making the wrong calls. Why is that not obvious to anyone? He simply lacks situational awareness and can't read anything but a base defense at this point. They had him completely confused. He's a young QB that struggles against a complicated defense. Like I said, look at his stats the 3 games he's started, he's gotten progressively worse each game, having been bailed out by the defense in two of the games, one of which he lost due to poor situational awareness and poor execution.

It's so easy to see.

Like I said, I hope he does well against Miami because I'm getting nervous now. With injuries adding up, and a young Kap at the helm, I'm biting my fingernails to the bone with worry.

YOu know I used to ask myself the same questions, but you know most rather would not see this, than actually say he f**ked up too. I mean yes we had a dropped TD, been there before with Alex, bad playcalling, been there, penalties, been there, running for his life, been there. I mean none of the circumstances surrounding Kaep are new at all.
Everyone is pointing at the drop by Delanie, but what other Td passes did he throw. Where was that arm all game that we were supposed to see since the new orleans game. I love how Jaws on ESPN pointed out the 50 yd run. But i laughed because did we score a TD no. All that hype and energy for the run, but he didnt run for a TD or pass for a TD. But he played a pretty good game. I guess moving the chains but putting up no points is good now with Kaep, but i know it sure wasnt then.
Before if not at least 2 Td passes and it was a little unacceptable. Like Mooch said last night, I dont know if you saw it but he said this,

"Harbaugh is choosing to stay with Kaep, and thats fine, but they got some tough games coming up in New England, and Seattle. NOWS NOT THE TIME TO EXPERIMENT, and i hope they keep Alex ready and motivated, because they are gonna need him for those games."

I heard that, and finally, im like Coach called it just what it is, an Experiment. That if we keep on, we are gonna jeopardize our SB chances this year.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
People will get offended by this post but there's some truth to this. I get really nervous when he barely gets the play called out and hikes the ball with 1 second to go. He has no time to make any presnap reads/adjustments and I worry that if the rest of the team got the play at all.

Do you remember 2011? How Many times Alex did that?!?!?

Sure I remember, but is now the time to have our QB doing that?

Damn u beat me to it. He just made our point, exactly. Look how long it took Alex to get it and he's one of the more cerebral QB's. So we expect no learning curve with Kaep huh. My sentiments exactly. Should we even have to worry about a new learning curve, if the proven vet was doing a good job for us already. We shouldnt, but i forgot we are 49er fans. At times it seems like common sense, status quo, dont pertain to our team, just put anybody on the field not named Alex Smith and we are golden. And when u rush things, especially in the NFL, you wound up getting exposed and messing up what could of been.

It's not too late, and Kaep's starting in Miami. So if he doesnt give us a convincing win, and we either lose or barely win. Also keeping an eye on if it's still the Defense and rushing game that won the game for us, then the experiment needs to end and just like Kaep said. I should of played it safe. At least in alex we know he can produce, score points in the red zone, accurate on short to medium routes when they take the deep ball away, and one of the main things, can read a defense and audible with time to spare on the clock, and excels and making safe, but also productive throws. Just look at how many of our WR's actually have Yac.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Squidp:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Young QB under center, coaches certainly didn't help him. Receivers certainly didn't. (Walker)

They were winning off the LOS more than ive seen this year

So I guess the whole "needing everything to be perfect" doesn't only apply to Alex?

for a young QB, yep
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Squidp:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Young QB under center, coaches certainly didn't help him. Receivers certainly didn't. (Walker)

They were winning off the LOS more than ive seen this year

So I guess the whole "needing everything to be perfect" doesn't only apply to Alex?

for a young QB, yep

This was being said about Alex when he was younger than 25 (Kaep's age right now).
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