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Week 13: Thoughts after rewatching the game...
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:32 PM
- Schulzy
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,004
I am sick of Ginn too. Get Jenkins out there. I shouldn't see Ginn on the field for offensive plays. And he's not proving ST worth either this year.
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:40 PM
- Afrikan
- Veteran
- Posts: 21,470
Originally posted by Schulzy:
I am sick of Ginn too. Get Jenkins out there. I shouldn't see Ginn on the field for offensive plays. And he's not proving ST worth either this year.
although Ginn just looks like he thinks its still preseason out there...I don't know why we don't use him for plays HE KNOWS....like those high school endarounds...or a reverse. If teams are going to blitz us like the Rams did...and our running game is not working...well generate some other type of rushing yardage that slows down the pass rush.
I mean we even ran those types of plays with Kaep and Jenkins in preseason, and Jenkins got us a first down.
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:42 PM
- theeninerfan
- Veteran
- Posts: 5
excellent post.. i couldnt agree more with your observations..especially about roman/harbaugh's playcalling.....I accepted the offense being cautious and non explosive with alex in there because game manager was the formula for success then...but thats not the case now.. ROMAN LETS GET VERTICAL... even though the run game wasnt there today were gonna always attempt to pound the rock because thats what we do so I can live with that but we have to get VERTICAL with our passing attack....also this was the another game that I think we got out coached "the 2nd time by the rams staff" so with the redskins giving up the house for RG3, the rams are gonna be around for awhile so we had better take note... i think we will though, it is harbough's second season as well so we are witnessing all of of young talent learning and these types of games will only make us better.......
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:46 PM
- UKNiners
- Veteran
- Posts: 485
Originally posted by Marvin49:He dropped back that far because he was being chased and he was trying to make enough room to get out of the tackle box.
Originally posted by Marvin49:I don't think those 2 are likely or realistic. Seattle is about to lose 2 of it's best players and I think the Niners will win out. Niners play the4ir best against the good teams...so not fearing the Pats.
Lets hope so. Cheers dude.
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:54 PM
- Marvin49
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 16,501
Originally posted by NinerGM:
If you're going to play tough running/defensive games, a clutch kicker is paramount. Akers is clearly a liability this year. It's seriously time to consider other options. If you're going to bench Alex Smith for not having the hot hand, you have to bench Akers for poor play. I love Walker, but where did his stone hands come from? Why does this team go into the tank against the Rams? Weird.
Ya....3 games in a row now.
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:55 PM
- HornedToad10
- Member
- Posts: 45
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by HornedToad10:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
What was the reason that we made Kaep the starter? IF it wasn't that he gives us a better chance to win now, it was a mistake.
I don't think he did that this game.
He DOES give them a better chance....but that doesn't mean they are going to win every game. Alex would have been crushed under that rush. He wouldn't have converted half the third downs that Kaep did. I like Alex, but Kaep gives the 49ers a better chance to win. He's going to make mistakes, but he's also going to make big plays to make up for them.
You have to be realistic. THIS game, Alex would have given a better chance. Kaep was a net 3 points since he gave up 10 points to the Rams. This is a game where the 1st year starter made mistakes to cost the game. Hopefully next week he'll be better and make plays to win games we wouldn't win with Alex. Kaep is classic higher highs and lower lows style of quarterback right now....
I call BS on that one.
First off, that wasn't a safety BAD call. Kaep did the right thing. Second, while the pitch was horrible, they never even would have called that play had Alex been in the game...IE, bad play call to start. The Rams would have played Alex far differently because they wouldn't have feared the deep pass. I seriously think this game would have been worse had Alex played. The Rams almost seemed to have the offensive gameplan for most of the game.
Kaep is able to create. Alex is not.
The safety still happened regardless of being a bad call. The fumble still happened even though there was no need for it. Kaep still made the safety overly risky by retreating 6 more yards back into the end zone instead of taking the sack at the 6 or trying to avoid the rush sideways.
If you don't think they would have won with Alex then you are basically saying you don't think that offense would have been net +3 points. This is a game Alex does well; a decent team where he plays just well enough to win without any backbreaking mistakes. Unfortunately Kaep made the backbreaking mistakes. Kaep will also win games Alex wouldn't have won and we should be realistic about both scenarios.
It's not blasphemous to say the quarterback is one of the primary reasons the game was lost. It happens with playmaking quarterbacks periodically. Drew Brees is the primary reason the Saints lost the last two games. What needs to happen is Kaep needs to recover from it and be the reason we win other games we wouldn't have won with Alex. Hopefully he has great games against New England or Seattle and makes plays Alex can't or wouldn't in order to win the game.
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:56 PM
- SofaKing
- Veteran
- Posts: 27,442
Originally posted by HornedToad10:
The safety still happened regardless of being a bad call. The fumble still happened even though there was no need for it. Kaep still made the safety overly risky by retreating 6 more yards back into the end zone instead of taking the sack at the 6 or trying to avoid the rush sideways.
If you don't think they would have won with Alex then you are basically saying you don't think that offense would have been net +3 points. This is a game Alex does well; a decent team where he plays just well enough to win without any backbreaking mistakes. Unfortunately Kaep made the backbreaking mistakes. Kaep will also win games Alex wouldn't have won and we should be realistic about both scenarios.
It's not blasphemous to say the quarterback is one of the primary reasons the game was lost. It happens with playmaking quarterbacks periodically. Drew Brees is the primary reason the Saints lost the last two games. What needs to happen is Kaep needs to recover from it and be the reason we win other games we wouldn't have won with Alex. Hopefully he has great games against New England or Seattle and makes plays Alex can't or wouldn't in order to win the game.
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:57 PM
- monsterzero789
- Veteran
- Posts: 23,692
Originally posted by Marvin49:Originally posted by NinerGM:If you're going to play tough running/defensive games, a clutch kicker is paramount. Akers is clearly a liability this year. It's seriously time to consider other options. If you're going to bench Alex Smith for not having the hot hand, you have to bench Akers for poor play. I love Walker, but where did his stone hands come from? Why does this team go into the tank against the Rams? Weird.
Ya....3 games in a row now.
Divisional games are always tough. We always played the Seahawks and cardinals tough when they were good teams. Rams have a great record in the division
Dec 2, 2012 at 8:59 PM
- susweel
- Hall of Nepal
- Posts: 120,275
Could it be we just don't play well in domes.
Dec 2, 2012 at 9:04 PM
- Marvin49
- Hall of Fame
- Posts: 16,501
Originally posted by HornedToad10:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by HornedToad10:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
What was the reason that we made Kaep the starter? IF it wasn't that he gives us a better chance to win now, it was a mistake.
I don't think he did that this game.
He DOES give them a better chance....but that doesn't mean they are going to win every game. Alex would have been crushed under that rush. He wouldn't have converted half the third downs that Kaep did. I like Alex, but Kaep gives the 49ers a better chance to win. He's going to make mistakes, but he's also going to make big plays to make up for them.
You have to be realistic. THIS game, Alex would have given a better chance. Kaep was a net 3 points since he gave up 10 points to the Rams. This is a game where the 1st year starter made mistakes to cost the game. Hopefully next week he'll be better and make plays to win games we wouldn't win with Alex. Kaep is classic higher highs and lower lows style of quarterback right now....
I call BS on that one.
First off, that wasn't a safety BAD call. Kaep did the right thing. Second, while the pitch was horrible, they never even would have called that play had Alex been in the game...IE, bad play call to start. The Rams would have played Alex far differently because they wouldn't have feared the deep pass. I seriously think this game would have been worse had Alex played. The Rams almost seemed to have the offensive gameplan for most of the game.
Kaep is able to create. Alex is not.
The safety still happened regardless of being a bad call. The fumble still happened even though there was no need for it. Kaep still made the safety overly risky by retreating 6 more yards back into the end zone instead of taking the sack at the 6 or trying to avoid the rush sideways.
If you don't think they would have won with Alex then you are basically saying you don't think that offense would have been net +3 points. This is a game Alex does well; a decent team where he plays just well enough to win without any backbreaking mistakes. Unfortunately Kaep made the backbreaking mistakes. Kaep will also win games Alex wouldn't have won and we should be realistic about both scenarios.
It's not blasphemous to say the quarterback is one of the primary reasons the game was lost. It happens with playmaking quarterbacks periodically. Drew Brees is the primary reason the Saints lost the last two games. What needs to happen is Kaep needs to recover from it and be the reason we win other games we wouldn't have won with Alex. Hopefully he has great games against New England or Seattle and makes plays Alex can't or wouldn't in order to win the game.
Totally not buying into that first one. He scambled farther to AVOID the sack...and he succeeded. If the refs do their job, we aren't having this conversation. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to blame Colin for a blown call. Call me crazy.
Yes, there will be times that Alex may have performed better than Colin. I like Alex, so I'm not trying to rip the guy. Realistically tho (to me anyway), Alex would have been crushed under that rush and wouldn't have converted most of those 3rd downs. Maybe Alex wouldn't have messed up the lateral and maybe he wouldn't have run out of bounds, but he also may not have been able to do ANYTHING since the Rams were able to stop the run almost completely, the Niners couldn't stop holding, and the playcalling was horrendous.
Its not like Kaep was scattershot and wasn'ty hitting his receivers. He was hitting them all over the field. Part of the problem was that ALOT of those passes were "Alex-like" passes underneath and not down the field. Alot of that was because the Rams were playing to take away the deep shot.
We will never know this for sure,
Dec 2, 2012 at 9:07 PM
- Afrikan
- Veteran
- Posts: 21,470
Originally posted by monsterzero789:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
If you're going to play tough running/defensive games, a clutch kicker is paramount. Akers is clearly a liability this year. It's seriously time to consider other options. If you're going to bench Alex Smith for not having the hot hand, you have to bench Akers for poor play. I love Walker, but where did his stone hands come from? Why does this team go into the tank against the Rams? Weird.
Ya....3 games in a row now.
Divisional games are always tough. We always played the Seahawks and cardinals tough when they were good teams. Rams have a great record in the division
they haven't lost in the division.
man they are going to be tough for years to come....they will only improve with draft picks and with Fisher as HC.
Bradford looks good sometimes...he makes accurate throws...and he made good decisions running with the ball.
At least these games will be more exciting. Kaep looked like he was able to handle Fisher's adjustments to him...and our coaching staff better as well.
Dec 2, 2012 at 9:24 PM
- bzborow1
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,261
Thanks Marvin...I'm getting to the point I wait for this thread.
Some thoughts:
1. Kaepernick didn't play a horrible game as many on here seem to think. What I saw was frequent pressure followed with a big cushion to avoid the deep play. Kaep was being forced to make quick decisions and was largely contained when attempting to scramble. Having said this, he was able to complete at a decent rate and made some plays Alex never could have. I also like the rapport he's building with Manningham and Crabtree. I think St. Louis is building an attitude under Fischer and they are going to be a force in the near future. If Smith had started, I think we'd be staring at a 5+ sack game.
2. Marv's LMJ comment - I agree. The Rams closed the defense and were able to stuff the run effectively. We need more speed on the field...which begs the question, is LMJ really any good? The 9ers are going to play the best on game day and he can't beat out Jacobs or Dixon? For a second round pick that's disappointing.
3. Jenkins. They couldn't find one snap for him? Does he suck too?
4. Akers. I WANT to ditch him, but who do you replace him with? Two guys who are erratic and one who blew a chip shot for the Ravens? I'm hoping the law of averages works in the 49ers favor down the stretch and Akers bumps his numbers to career norms.
Some thoughts:
1. Kaepernick didn't play a horrible game as many on here seem to think. What I saw was frequent pressure followed with a big cushion to avoid the deep play. Kaep was being forced to make quick decisions and was largely contained when attempting to scramble. Having said this, he was able to complete at a decent rate and made some plays Alex never could have. I also like the rapport he's building with Manningham and Crabtree. I think St. Louis is building an attitude under Fischer and they are going to be a force in the near future. If Smith had started, I think we'd be staring at a 5+ sack game.
2. Marv's LMJ comment - I agree. The Rams closed the defense and were able to stuff the run effectively. We need more speed on the field...which begs the question, is LMJ really any good? The 9ers are going to play the best on game day and he can't beat out Jacobs or Dixon? For a second round pick that's disappointing.
3. Jenkins. They couldn't find one snap for him? Does he suck too?
4. Akers. I WANT to ditch him, but who do you replace him with? Two guys who are erratic and one who blew a chip shot for the Ravens? I'm hoping the law of averages works in the 49ers favor down the stretch and Akers bumps his numbers to career norms.
[ Edited by bzborow1 on Dec 2, 2012 at 9:26 PM ]
Dec 2, 2012 at 9:33 PM
- jaadee72
- Veteran
- Posts: 13
Originally posted by bzborow1:
Thanks Marvin...I'm getting to the point I wait for this thread.
Some thoughts:
1. Kaepernick didn't play a horrible game as many on here seem to think. What I saw was frequent pressure followed with a big cushion to avoid the deep play. Kaep was being forced to make quick decisions and was largely contained when attempting to scramble. Having said this, he was able to complete at a decent rate and made some plays Alex never could have. I also like the rapport he's building with Manningham and Crabtree. I think St. Louis is building an attitude under Fischer and they are going to be a force in the near future. If Smith had started, I think we'd be staring at a 5+ sack game.
2. Marv's LMJ comment - I agree. The Rams closed the defense and were able to stuff the run effectively. We need more speed on the field...which begs the question, is LMJ really any good? The 9ers are going to play the best on game day and he can't beat out Jacobs or Dixon? For a second round pick that's disappointing.
3. Jenkins. They couldn't find one snap for him? Does he suck too?
4. Akers. I WANT to ditch him, but who do you replace him with? Two guys who are erratic and one who blew a chip shot for the Ravens? I'm hoping the law of averages works in the 49ers favor down the stretch and Akers bumps his numbers to career norms.
You are right about looking at 5 or so sacks with Smith in the game. I can tell you too right off the top.
1) He would have taken the sack instead of running all the way into the endozone to giving the Rams a safety.
2)The second one would have been on that rushed play with a bad snap. Instead of still trying to pitch the ball, which ended up being a TD for the Rams, he would have eaten it and taken another sack. I don't know about you but I can live with those.
Not being a Smith fan whatsoever, I must say I do miss his efficiency and safe play. But we are always looking for the greener grass I guess.
Dec 2, 2012 at 9:38 PM
- dugo
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,395
Originally posted by johnnyredneat:
Great read as usual. I'd add a few points:
1. I'd definitely add that Kaep seemed to really struggle pre-snap. Not reading blitzes, frantic audibles with 2 seconds on the play clock, constantly burning time outs. We burned all our timeouts to avoid delay penalties in what was a close game throughout. Ultimately didn't have an impact, but could absolutely have cost us the game. This is another thing that took a while to sort out when AS was the QB.
2. We're built to run the ball and throw short/medium timing routes. It's the way the whole team is constructed, it's how we've played since Harbaugh became coach. It's what we've practiced every day for two years. Changing to a more downfield vertical stretch offense isn't going to be an easy process.
3. A screen or two would have been nice against their constant up-the-middle A-Gap blitzes.
I was screaming for a screen a few times during the game ,,the rams were not into any position to defend it.. the DB"s were playing so far back and the LB's were stacking the box..but we kept slamming up the middle..
Dec 2, 2012 at 9:39 PM
- BodyRocker
- Veteran
- Posts: 140
Originally posted by Marvin49:
So, I was too annoyed to wait until later to rewatch the game. Watched it again immediately.
1) Kaepernick: Lets everyone chill out for a sec. Nobody thought he was going to be perfect in every game this year. That's not the reason he was made the starter. First, the Intentional Grounding WASN'T intentional grounding. The ball started on the far hash and he was outside the tackle box. He threw the ball beyond the LOS. Lets not put a clear missed call on him. Second, the lateral. Bad play. No defending it, but lets be real here for a sec. Harbaugh/Roman NEVER should have called that play to begin with. The pitch itself was a "young QB" mistake and he's going to make those. He did enough tho to make up for it and if Delanie Walker can catch the damn ball he wins the game. Kaep STILL made plays that Alex could never make...and I say that as an Alex FAN. He escaped the rush on what would have been sacks several times...including the 50 yard run. He made throws Alex would never make (the outs to Crabtree and Manningham come to mind). It looks like the Rams were very concerned with Kaep completing passes deep down the field and were playong off for most of the game. Thats why the Niners were having success underneath. Kaep (just has he has in his last 2 starts) played very well on third down.
2) Play Calling: I am a Greg Roman fan. I've defended him time after time on this site. This game pissed my off from beginning to end. Ya know what Greg? Good things happen when Kaep gets to throw the ball. The pitch was a HORRIBLE call. Horrific. Almost as bad was the playcalling in overtime. They got the ball at the 50 and never took a shot. They have a QB now who can make those throws. You gotta use him. I also saw it in the red zone....2 runs that go nowhere, Kaep throws it to convert. Maybe try throwing it earlier
3) Defense: Great Game. They got let down by poor play on offense. They got pushed around a few weeks ago vs Jackson and made up for it today. Much better game.
4) Run game: Outside of a few plays at the beginning, they largely got shut down. Even thought they weren't having success, they just kept bashing against that brick wall. THROW THE DAMN BALL. Kaep can make plays Alex couldn't. LET HIM. I'm not saying stop running altogether. I'm just saying that sometimes one aspect of the game is working better.
5) Akers: I'm not a "cut this guy" kinda fan....but this is getting old.
6) Ginn: See #5.
7) LaMichael James: We need that outside speed element that Hunter gave them. Gore can thunder between the tackles and Hunter was a great change of pace. Jacobs is good for short yardage, but defenses are just condensing because they don't fear anyone getting out to the perimeter. It's time to activate LaMichael James
8) Manningham: I hope he's not hurt too bad. He's really becoming a clutch player.
9) Walker: WILDLY inconsistent. Athletically a game-changer, but the guy just seems to fight the ball. Two more drops and one of them was a perfect pass that would likely have won the game.
10) Penalties: I dunno if its the domes on the road or what, but the penalties are getting rediculous. Those 10 yard penaties are drive killers. Niners need to fix that crap. NOW.
EDIT: Had to add....
11) Crabtree: Looking like the guy we wanted him to be on draft day. Can create when the play breaks down. Kaepernick-Crabtree are going to be a threat for a long-long time. On that topic, a dynamic passer like Kaepernick will make it easier to keep and sign WRs and TEs in the offseason.
Great Post. I wanted to reiterate your point #2; that was the worst game plan I've seen from this coaching offensive coaching staff, considering Kap is the "hot hand" and is the QB to really do what Harbaugh wants to do with this offense. Point #4 and the run part of #2, my god, two terrible run calls and you have a kicker who is struggling and plenty of time on the clock to control your own destiny. Totally agree with point #8.
I just wanted to add, is it just me, or has anyone else noticed the consistently low snaps from Goodwin?!!?! All last game and sporadically this game.
Once again, great post!