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Week 12: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by cciowa:
i love alex but my daughter who is a huge alex fan and is smarter than most guys, told me there were many many times that ck avoided the pass rush and made plays in the same order that garcia used to. she said that is a big plus for ck and something we maybe do not see from alex. i love alex but i am not dumb and blind. ok I am sure its been discussed and i hate to bring up negative after such a big win but i am really really worried about these penalities we make. we make them on offense to kill drives, we make them on defense to extend drives for the foe. I do not think the refs are picking on us and I understand we over came them and won so alls well that ends well,,,,,, but this is a very very frustrating part of the game for me. now far be it for me to over react but am i worried about nothing??

Your daughter seems pretty intelligent in her assessment of CK than many here in NT. I liked the comparison to Garcia, too.
Originally posted by cciowa:
i love alex but my daughter who is a huge alex fan and is smarter than most guys, told me there were many many times that ck avoided the pass rush and made plays in the same order that garcia used to. she said that is a big plus for ck and something we maybe do not see from alex. i love alex but i am not dumb and blind. ok I am sure its been discussed and i hate to bring up negative after such a big win but i am really really worried about these penalities we make. we make them on offense to kill drives, we make them on defense to extend drives for the foe. I do not think the refs are picking on us and I understand we over came them and won so alls well that ends well,,,,,, but this is a very very frustrating part of the game for me. now far be it for me to over react but am i worried about nothing??

We were playing against the Refs all game..but they made up for it at the end
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i love alex but my daughter who is a huge alex fan and is smarter than most guys, told me there were many many times that ck avoided the pass rush and made plays in the same order that garcia used to. she said that is a big plus for ck and something we maybe do not see from alex. i love alex but i am not dumb and blind. ok I am sure its been discussed and i hate to bring up negative after such a big win but i am really really worried about these penalities we make. we make them on offense to kill drives, we make them on defense to extend drives for the foe. I do not think the refs are picking on us and I understand we over came them and won so alls well that ends well,,,,,, but this is a very very frustrating part of the game for me. now far be it for me to over react but am i worried about nothing??

We were playing against the Refs all game..but they made up for it at the end
yes,, i only saw the 4th quarter but after all those calls on us I had no time for any saints to cry about some penalties called on them.... really though does it go deeper than just us vs the "crooked refs". it just seems to be this has been an issue all year. again far be it for me to over react and walk out on a ledge but was just wondering?
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i love alex but my daughter who is a huge alex fan and is smarter than most guys, told me there were many many times that ck avoided the pass rush and made plays in the same order that garcia used to. she said that is a big plus for ck and something we maybe do not see from alex. i love alex but i am not dumb and blind. ok I am sure its been discussed and i hate to bring up negative after such a big win but i am really really worried about these penalities we make. we make them on offense to kill drives, we make them on defense to extend drives for the foe. I do not think the refs are picking on us and I understand we over came them and won so alls well that ends well,,,,,, but this is a very very frustrating part of the game for me. now far be it for me to over react but am i worried about nothing??

Your daughter seems pretty intelligent in her assessment of CK than many here in NT. I liked the comparison to Garcia, too.
i was trying to get both my daughters to enter niner talk but that would not be pretty. the oldest has a short temper and the youngest knows alot about the game which may bruise some egos , plus you guys are horndogs who would try to hustle them
Originally posted by billbird2111:
In terms of flat out speed, CK and Alex might be tied.

LMAO

Come on, man.
A couple things I mentioned in the game day thread:

After re-watching it there was over 110 yards left on the field because of drops and penalties in the 1st half alone. 15 to Vernon Penalty, 15 to Crabtree Dropped, 15 to Vernon Dropped, 35 yarder to Crabtree Penalty.... a few others I forgot.... 2nd half Gore TD Run of 10ish Hold, plus a few delay of games and a free 1st down from an offsides. So anyways that's like 120+ without the penalties included. The one hold of AD cost us 45 alone with the penalty and the play coming back.

Also, to Brook's side there was a touchdown and a few big plays... this has happened throughout the year. Is it Brook's job to take a RB if he is a blocker? The rb will block brooks for a second, let him go and then Brooks continues to pursue QB and they will dump it off to him. A bunch of screens this year from that as well. I am wondering if Brooks should be dropping into coverage or if it's Willis or another players job to pick that guy up?
Great post!
CK7 is the dynamic cog that makes the 49er red Ferrari run! He goes for the jugular and only checks down when he has to. He has the balls to make the big throws and doesn't play afraid. Look out NFL here comes CK7! He can escape sacks and prolong plays like Big Ben and beats people with his arms and legs. He was not sacked in that game. If it wasn't for dumb holding penalties his stats would have been better.
Brooks has been playing outstanding football the past 4-5 games. Possibly the best stretch of his career. Guy is balling right now
Fantastic breakdown... as always Marv. Preciate it....
Originally posted by Gore_21:
A couple things I mentioned in the game day thread:

After re-watching it there was over 110 yards left on the field because of drops and penalties in the 1st half alone. 15 to Vernon Penalty, 15 to Crabtree Dropped, 15 to Vernon Dropped, 35 yarder to Crabtree Penalty.... a few others I forgot.... 2nd half Gore TD Run of 10ish Hold, plus a few delay of games and a free 1st down from an offsides. So anyways that's like 120+ without the penalties included. The one hold of AD cost us 45 alone with the penalty and the play coming back.

Also, to Brook's side there was a touchdown and a few big plays... this has happened throughout the year. Is it Brook's job to take a RB if he is a blocker? The rb will block brooks for a second, let him go and then Brooks continues to pursue QB and they will dump it off to him. A bunch of screens this year from that as well. I am wondering if Brooks should be dropping into coverage or if it's Willis or another players job to pick that guy up?

Nice post and thanks for that!

No Bowman was supposed to have him on the TD but got chipped enough so he was late. Typically, no, the OLB is not responsible for the RB out in the flat in passing. The SAM's job is to seal the edge on running plays en route to rushing the passer UNLESS he is asked to drop in zone like he did yesterday for the pick-6. Covering RB/FB/TE's in the passing game is up to the MLB's and secondary.
I'll tell you...it's very exciting watching Kap play. While I feel really bad for Alex..I mean, stayed when he didn't have to, 49ers went after manning..still stayed and never gave up...then has the best year of his career...and gets injured and people are already to move on...

I feel so bad for him...I know he struggles as QB but dang...it's just sad to see him standing there with a helmet on and ready to play
Originally posted by NCommand:
Nice post and thanks for that!

No Bowman was supposed to have him on the TD but got chipped enough so he was late. Typically, no, the OLB is not responsible for the RB out in the flat in passing. The SAM's job is to seal the edge on running plays en route to rushing the passer UNLESS he is asked to drop in zone like he did yesterday for the pick-6. Covering RB/FB/TE's in the passing game is up to the MLB's and secondary.

Thanks... Have you or anyone else noticed that as well? A lot of screens and long plays/tds coming on those type of plays on Brook's side throughout the year. Even if it is Ahmad's job to go after the QB I would think the coaches tell him to fall back if he sees a screen. Never seen him do it though.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on Nov 26, 2012 at 11:17 AM ]
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by dj43:
Still, as I watched the Giants destroy Aaron Rodgers and the Packers last night, the team that beat the Saints yesterday appears to be by no means ready to take on the World Champs.

As much as I hate to do it, I have to agree with this sentiment. When the Giants are on? They are scary good.

DJ -- the one advantage we might have is CK's escape skills against that rush. I think we've seen just a glimmer of what CK7 can do on a football field.

His escapability did offset his failure to recognize stunts and blitzes and adjust blocking schemes.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
CK looks like a man among boys out there. In situations where Alex Smith clearly would have yielded a sack, CK simply avoids losses like you or I would brush off a pesky bug. He almost seems annoyed when he gets chased, and almost always makes a defensive lineman look foolish. This is perhaps the part of his game that I like the best. In terms of flat out speed, CK and Alex might be tied. But in terms of pocket awareness and quickness? CK always seems to be one step ahead of the lumbering lineman trying in a vain attempt to chase him down. It's almost like it's so unfair that CK should be playing with one arm tied behind his back.

This team has drafted amazingly well during the past couple of years. I'm interested in seeing what this year's draft crop can do, because it finally looks like they're about to get some long-awaited chances for field action.

I fully agree with this his pocket awareness and escapability is on another level compared to Alex.

I agree on the pocket awareness... Alex is used to having a bad line and has not regained his composure there. He's jittery in the pocket.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by dj43:
Nice post Marvin. I too am very much on the fence over Kaepernick. Yes, he had some nice plays and good moves, however, he first played a Bears team that played vanilla defense all night and made it very easy for him to make the reads. Yesterday, he played the worst defense in the league yet only put up 2 TDs. He was clearly confused by the stunts and coverages Spaguolo and the Saints threw at him. His audible adjustments, especially on running plays were not very effective. What he added in passing, was subtracted in the run game. On balance, his performance against the Saints yesterday was below average in comparison to what other QBs have put up in previous games this year. In reflection, these two games were a good starting point for CK. The Bears played the same alignment play after play which made it easy for him. The Saints, though they gave him a lot of looks, just are not good enough to present a top level challenge. In looking at the closing schedule, however, there are not any playoff caliber defenses left. Consequently, if Harbaugh chooses to continue with him, this may be a good time for him to learn. Having Alex on the bench to help him learn the reads will help also. We shall see.

WR: I have been an outspoken critic of our WRs all season long. However, in fairness, they have improved with more time in the system. Crabtree is much improved over last year and yesterday he made a great catch on a 3rd down that was the kind of play he made in college. Still, he is easy to take out of the game with a strong DB. Again, this was the Saints, the worst passing defense in the league. They should not be able to shut down a #1 receiver that easily. Manningham is developing some chemistry but again, running a 3rd dow route 1 yard short of the line of gain is unforgivable for a 4th year receiver. Moss is still invisible except for the threat (hope?) that he draws coverage to free others. The truth is, as was shown by how easily Crabs was shut down, Moss is not as much of a threat as everyone hoped. His best contribution seems to be tutelage of others...perhaps. Ginn has not even been a shadow on offense. Williams going down takes away some firepower but hopefully we now will get to see what Jenkins can bring. With 2/3 of the season to learn what the pro game looks like, a #1 draft pick should be able to contribute now.

Yes, yesterday was a nice win by the defense. OTOH, despite all the raving about Kaepernick's athleticism and strong arm, and the 375 yards of offense, this was the SAINTS DEFENSE, the worst in the league, a defense that had given up an average of 454 yards of offense per game. Opponents AVERAGED 5 yards per rushing attempt (49ers 4.6) and 8.5 yards per pass (49ers 5.0). Compared to what previous opponents had done against the Saints, yesterday was BELOW AVERAGE offensively. I lay some of that to an improved effort by the Saints against a team that handed them a bitter defeat last year, however, a large part also falls to the fact the 49ers had a very inexperienced QB who was not able to deal with some fairly standard stunts and blitz packages and coverages that the Saints used.

Overall, a win is a win. Still, as I watched the Giants destroy Aaron Rodgers and the Packers last night, the team that beat the Saints yesterday appears to be by no means ready to take on the World Champs.

Gonna have to disagree with you here on Kaep. He played far better than his stats would indicate. There were at least 2 dropped passes (the third would have been for little gain for Gore) that were for significant yards and would have extended drives. Kaep put the ball where it needed to be and the reciever dropped it (Crab, Vernon). In addition there were holding calls that wipped out a 14 yard gain to Vernon on 3rd down and a 36 yard gain that would have taken the ball to the 14. It's not just the yard here that we are talking about. If the receivers make those catches and those holding calls aren't made, The Niners score alot more points because those drives are extended. On those holding calls in particular...those 10 yard penalties KILLED the drives. Just as an example, if you add just the drops to his stats and eliminate the holding calls He would have been 21-27 for WELL over 300 yards. That doesn't even take into account further yards or TDs (or, to be fair, INTs) he may have had had he gotten the first downs those plays would have resulted in.

Every QB has receivers drop the ball sometimes, so you can't do as I did above and say this is what SHOULD have happened. I'm just saying that your assessment of Kaep is a bit too harsh. He was putting the ball on the target. He wasn't confused. He played very, very well.

As you said, all QBs have to deal with penalties and drops, hence it is appropriate to look at stats, at least to a certain extent. Without the picks, the offense won this game 21-17, dare I say, very much in Alex Smith style, i.e.. the defense won this game. CK just didn't screw it up.

In some cases, it is just as important to look at what didn't happen as well as what did happen. In this case, what didn't happen in the run game is worth checking. I was used to seeing the results of play adjustments Smith made at the LOS and how those plays worked. In most cases, they were substantial gains. Yesterday, run plays off from audibles were usually stuffed, some well behind the line. I write those off to his inexperience. (Howie Long mentioned it at half time.) Even when the Saints had won, they were gashed on running plays. Based on that history, I was expecting a better run game against that relatively weak front 7.

However, as I said, I am happy with the win in the difficult environment. I just don't want to build my hopes up too far.