Will Moss be more of a factor now that C.K. is starting?

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Uh, no. Not even close.

The 49ers were built on the short pass. Joe was famous for it.

Do you know who the 49er all time leading receiver was before Jerry Rice? Roger Craig. A running back. Whenever I hear people call Alex Smith "captain check down" I laugh my @ss off. Montana checked down enough to ensure that Roger Craig had over 500 receptions as a 49er.

Did you know that our FULLBACK had 73 catches in 1989? The great 49er teams of old made their money with 5-10 yard passes and YAC. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Check the stats. The 49ers were never a chuck n' duck offense.

Solid post. That is the true history of the team. Pass short, and then maybe hit them up top later in the game. It was beautiful football.

Not sure why everyone is so obsessed with the deep bomb to Moss. It's not like Moss has been burning people all year. This is a very low percentage play and we need to get over it. If it happens cool, but it's not necessary for this offense to be successful

True and I don't understand why 9er fans do not know this history. Even if they were born after the Montana years the stats are historical record and have been discussed...a lot!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Uh, no. Not even close.

The 49ers were built on the short pass. Joe was famous for it.

Do you know who the 49er all time leading receiver was before Jerry Rice? Roger Craig. A running back. Whenever I hear people call Alex Smith "captain check down" I laugh my @ss off. Montana checked down enough to ensure that Roger Craig had over 500 receptions as a 49er.

Did you know that our FULLBACK had 73 catches in 1989? The great 49er teams of old made their money with 5-10 yard passes and YAC. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Check the stats. The 49ers were never a chuck n' duck offense.

Solid post. That is the true history of the team. Pass short, and then maybe hit them up top later in the game. It was beautiful football.

Not sure why everyone is so obsessed with the deep bomb to Moss. It's not like Moss has been burning people all year. This is a very low percentage play and we need to get over it. If it happens cool, but it's not necessary for this offense to be successful

True and I don't understand why 9er fans do not know this history. Even if they were born after the Montana years the stats are historical record and have been discussed...a lot!

We have some young ones on this board and who are heavily influenced by Sports Center highlights, FF and Madden. I'm not even sure if many of them even watch the games in detail. They are like a bad ex g/f who can't let go of the past, and are heavily emotional and centered around current hate...of Alex. They can't understand how OUR offense is so different from the spread offenses we see in New England, New Orleans, etc.

Originally posted by NCommand:
We have some young ones on this board and who are heavily influenced by Sports Center highlights, FF and Madden. I'm not even sure if many of them even watch the games in detail. They are like a bad ex g/f who can't let go of the past, and are heavily emotional and centered around current hate...of Alex. They can't understand how OUR offense is so different from the spread offenses we see in New England, New Orleans, etc.

Yes, and they did not see Montana slice up defenses, along with his RBs. I loved Walsh's offense and always will. His concept of making the defense cover the entire field was so different than the vertical passing game! The idea of short passes becoming as dependable as handoffs...ahhh...miss those days! Harbaugh's offense is interesting and creative, but I'm not in love with it. Maybe I will love it in retrospect if they win some Super Bowls? LOL at myself!

Originally posted by NCommand:

We have some young ones on this board and who are heavily influenced by Sports Center highlights, FF and Madden. I'm not even sure if many of them even watch the games in detail. They are like a bad ex g/f who can't let go of the past, and are heavily emotional and centered around current hate...of Alex. They can't understand how OUR offense is so different from the spread offenses we see in New England, New Orleans, etc.

POTD

Yes, Moss will be used more.

Especially in the Red Zone. Kap will be able to throw the ball high enough with accuracy for Moss to score.

Originally posted by NCommand:
We have some young ones on this board and who are heavily influenced by Sports Center highlights, FF and Madden. I'm not even sure if many of them even watch the games in detail. They are like a bad ex g/f who can't let go of the past, and are heavily emotional and centered around current hate...of Alex. They can't understand how OUR offense is so different from the spread offenses we see in New England, New Orleans, etc.

what in the world are you talking about? You're starting to lose it like Jiks did a few weeks ago

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Uh, no. Not even close.

The 49ers were built on the short pass. Joe was famous for it.

Do you know who the 49er all time leading receiver was before Jerry Rice? Roger Craig. A running back. Whenever I hear people call Alex Smith "captain check down" I laugh my @ss off. Montana checked down enough to ensure that Roger Craig had over 500 receptions as a 49er.

Did you know that our FULLBACK had 73 catches in 1989? The great 49er teams of old made their money with 5-10 yard passes and YAC. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Check the stats. The 49ers were never a chuck n' duck offense.

Yet another idiot who thinks that number of receptions = "leading receiver."

No, idiot - have you ever looked at the Rams during the Martz years? Faulk caught 80+ passes in 99-02. I guess Martz's system was also a system predicated on "5-10 yard passes and YAAAaaaac?"

Jerry Rice and John Taylor were averaging 18+ yards/catch in the 80s. They're what made the offense, not that check down BS. Check downs have pretty much always been around. The Fran Tarkenton Vikings teams had a s**tload of catches from their backs, too.

Watch a f**king old 49ers game or a team highlight video from back then sometime, doofus. You will see 10 times more deep ball big plays than short passes made into big plays after the catch.

And nobody's offense is driven by their f**king running backs catching 80 balls for 600 yards, moron. It's the big plays that made the 49ers offense worth a damn. Derek Loville caught 87 passes in 1995. If it hadn't been for Jerry Rice, that offense would've been absolutely atrocious, and Loville could've caught 140 and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference. Defenses will gladly let a team have dumpoffs to the running backs.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Yes, and they did not see Montana slice up defenses, along with his RBs. I loved Walsh's offense and always will. His concept of making the defense cover the entire field was so different than the vertical passing game! The idea of short passes becoming as dependable as handoffs...ahhh...miss those days! Harbaugh's offense is interesting and creative, but I'm not in love with it. Maybe I will love it in retrospect if they win some Super Bowls? LOL at myself!

You don't miss anything because that never happened. Bill Walsh did not invent the "short pass." He didn't invent a single thing. This revisionist history is just sickening.

There was never a time when offenses were throwing most of their passes deep. Short and intermediate forward passes have always been more common than trying to bomb it. But the Walsh 49ers threw down field more than the vast majority of teams in the NFL. When they had deep threats, they threw deep plenty. Why do you think they signed Renaldo Nehemiah? Why do you think Eddie Brown was ahead of Jerry Rice on the 49ers' draft board? What do you think Freddie Solomon's strength was?

Mike Holmgren preferred shorter passes, but that's because he's a talentless walrus doofus.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Uh, no. Not even close.

The 49ers were built on the short pass. Joe was famous for it.

Do you know who the 49er all time leading receiver was before Jerry Rice? Roger Craig. A running back. Whenever I hear people call Alex Smith "captain check down" I laugh my @ss off. Montana checked down enough to ensure that Roger Craig had over 500 receptions as a 49er.

Did you know that our FULLBACK had 73 catches in 1989? The great 49er teams of old made their money with 5-10 yard passes and YAC. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Check the stats. The 49ers were never a chuck n' duck offense.

Solid post. That is the true history of the team. Pass short, and then maybe hit them up top later in the game. It was beautiful football.

Not sure why everyone is so obsessed with the deep bomb to Moss. It's not like Moss has been burning people all year. This is a very low percentage play and we need to get over it. If it happens cool, but it's not necessary for this offense to be successful

True and I don't understand why 9er fans do not know this history. Even if they were born after the Montana years the stats are historical record and have been discussed...a lot!

I love that 9ers run a West Coast Offense, but its nice to be able to see a qb that can every now and then pass with precision down field. I'm with you though check downs and little screens are fine as long as the 9ers win.

Originally posted by 2000sooners:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:

Uh, no. Not even close.

The 49ers were built on the short pass. Joe was famous for it.

Do you know who the 49er all time leading receiver was before Jerry Rice? Roger Craig. A running back. Whenever I hear people call Alex Smith "captain check down" I laugh my @ss off. Montana checked down enough to ensure that Roger Craig had over 500 receptions as a 49er.

Did you know that our FULLBACK had 73 catches in 1989? The great 49er teams of old made their money with 5-10 yard passes and YAC. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Check the stats. The 49ers were never a chuck n' duck offense.

Solid post. That is the true history of the team. Pass short, and then maybe hit them up top later in the game. It was beautiful football.

Not sure why everyone is so obsessed with the deep bomb to Moss. It's not like Moss has been burning people all year. This is a very low percentage play and we need to get over it. If it happens cool, but it's not necessary for this offense to be successful

True and I don't understand why 9er fans do not know this history. Even if they were born after the Montana years the stats are historical record and have been discussed...a lot!

I love that 9ers run a West Coast Offense, but its nice to be able to see a qb that can every now and then pass with precision down field. I'm with you though check downs and little screens are fine as long as the 9ers win.

We can really run a true west coast offense now

Check downs are your escape route and not a primary target

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Fantasy football has ruined fans perspective of how the game was and should be played.

No, the game has changed and is much more wide open nowadays. Can you run on old school principals, sure, but bringing up how Montana distributed the ball is bit of a stretch. 1st off we haven't been checking down to the running backs that often. That's something he should do more of. Gore had 17 catches last year when he was averaging in the 40's every year before that. That's not necessarily an Alex problem it's just showing the difference between what we did in the 80's compared to today. From there talking about Montana's receiving fullback stats is useless because that position is 20 years outdated. The concept of a receiving fullback pretty much died when the league went exclusively I form.

Let me just say we have an efficient passing attack but these debates are years old and people want to bring up complaints from 2010 or 2009 and tie them into today. Right now our passing attack is fine, because you can't argue against the number 1 YPA team but that wasn't case until this year.

Originally posted by MarshallfaulkYouIdio:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Yes, and they did not see Montana slice up defenses, along with his RBs. I loved Walsh's offense and always will. His concept of making the defense cover the entire field was so different than the vertical passing game! The idea of short passes becoming as dependable as handoffs...ahhh...miss those days! Harbaugh's offense is interesting and creative, but I'm not in love with it. Maybe I will love it in retrospect if they win some Super Bowls? LOL at myself!

You don't miss anything because that never happened. Bill Walsh did not invent the "short pass." He didn't invent a single thing. This revisionist history is just sickening.

There was never a time when offenses were throwing most of their passes deep. Short and intermediate forward passes have always been more common than trying to bomb it. But the Walsh 49ers threw down field more than the vast majority of teams in the NFL. When they had deep threats, they threw deep plenty. Why do you think they signed Renaldo Nehemiah? Why do you think Eddie Brown was ahead of Jerry Rice on the 49ers' draft board? What do you think Freddie Solomon's strength was?

Mike Holmgren preferred shorter passes, but that's because he's a talentless walrus doofus.

Sorry, you are misquoting me. Never said Walsh "invented the 'short pass.'" You just invented me saying that. Your revisionist history is making you sick and the remedy is to quote people accurately or not at all. My point was that Walsh threw all over the field often enough to force the D to respect every possibility. They had to account for everything, making it difficult to key on anything.

Oops...just read your last sentence...sorry to have replied...never mind, go about your way.

Originally posted by 2000sooners:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by sacniner:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Uh, no. Not even close.

The 49ers were built on the short pass. Joe was famous for it.

Do you know who the 49er all time leading receiver was before Jerry Rice? Roger Craig. A running back. Whenever I hear people call Alex Smith "captain check down" I laugh my @ss off. Montana checked down enough to ensure that Roger Craig had over 500 receptions as a 49er.

Did you know that our FULLBACK had 73 catches in 1989? The great 49er teams of old made their money with 5-10 yard passes and YAC. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Check the stats. The 49ers were never a chuck n' duck offense.

Solid post. That is the true history of the team. Pass short, and then maybe hit them up top later in the game. It was beautiful football.

Not sure why everyone is so obsessed with the deep bomb to Moss. It's not like Moss has been burning people all year. This is a very low percentage play and we need to get over it. If it happens cool, but it's not necessary for this offense to be successful

True and I don't understand why 9er fans do not know this history. Even if they were born after the Montana years the stats are historical record and have been discussed...a lot!

I love that 9ers run a West Coast Offense, but its nice to be able to see a qb that can every now and then pass with precision down field. I'm with you though check downs and little screens are fine as long as the 9ers win.

What Smith has done, with Roman's game plans, is to use the whole field and punish the D for keying on a specific area. If they stack the box and the line is breaking down, throw it over the line to a back or WR running a short route. If they drop back to cover the middle you thrown sidelines or deep middle...or run. When folks run amok saying that Smith is a check down artist it flies in the face of the facts. Smith is fourth in yards per attempt among QBs with over 100 passes this year--ahead of Brees, Manning, Ryan, Romo, Rodgers and so many other elite QBs.

CK, if he continues playing as he has and is allowed to start will be just as good or better in yards per attempt...but don't use that to misstate Smith's stats.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Fantasy football has ruined fans perspective of how the game was and should be played.

No, the game has changed and is much more wide open nowadays. Can you run on old school principals, sure, but bringing up how Montana distributed the ball is bit of a stretch. 1st off we haven't been checking down to the running backs that often. That's something he should do more of. Gore had 17 catches last year when he was averaging in the 40's every year before that. That's not necessarily an Alex problem it's just showing the difference between what we did in the 80's compared to today. From there talking about Montana's receiving fullback stats is useless because that position is 20 years outdated. The concept of a receiving fullback pretty much died when the league went exclusively I form.

Let me just say we have an efficient passing attack but these debates are years old and people want to bring up complaints from 2010 or 2009 and tie them into today. Right now our passing attack is fine, because you can't argue against the number 1 YPA team but that wasn't case until this year.

Agreed, however I was talking more generally. Younger people are under a false impression that Stafford throwing 57 times a game is somehow a model to be measured against. That would be incorrect imo.

Originally posted by MarshallfaulkYouIdio:

Originally posted by Legbreaker:
Uh, no. Not even close.

The 49ers were built on the short pass. Joe was famous for it.

Do you know who the 49er all time leading receiver was before Jerry Rice? Roger Craig. A running back. Whenever I hear people call Alex Smith "captain check down" I laugh my @ss off. Montana checked down enough to ensure that Roger Craig had over 500 receptions as a 49er.

Did you know that our FULLBACK had 73 catches in 1989? The great 49er teams of old made their money with 5-10 yard passes and YAC. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Check the stats. The 49ers were never a chuck n' duck offense.

Yet another idiot who thinks that number of receptions = "leading receiver."

No, idiot - have you ever looked at the Rams during the Martz years? Faulk caught 80+ passes in 99-02. I guess Martz's system was also a system predicated on "5-10 yard passes and YAAAaaaac?"

Jerry Rice and John Taylor were averaging 18+ yards/catch in the 80s. They're what made the offense, not that check down BS. Check downs have pretty much always been around. The Fran Tarkenton Vikings teams had a s**tload of catches from their backs, too.

Watch a f**king old 49ers game or a team highlight video from back then sometime, doofus. You will see 10 times more deep ball big plays than short passes made into big plays after the catch.

And nobody's offense is driven by their f**king running backs catching 80 balls for 600 yards, moron. It's the big plays that made the 49ers offense worth a damn. Derek Loville caught 87 passes in 1995. If it hadn't been for Jerry Rice, that offense would've been absolutely atrocious, and Loville could've caught 140 and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference. Defenses will gladly let a team have dumpoffs to the running backs.