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Week 10: Thoughts after rewatching the Rams game....

Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
2-17-SF 36 (14:22) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore up the middle to SF 38 for 2 yards (55-J.Laurinaitis, 98-K.Langford).

3-15-SF 38 (13:40) (Shotgun) 11-A.Smith pass short middle to 15-M.Crabtree to STL 48 for 14 yards (43-C.Dahl, 31-C.Finnegan). Caught at SF 42. 10-yds YAC Measurement indicate ball short of first down.

4-1-STL 48 (12:02) 11-A.Smith up the middle to STL 47 for 1 yard (98-K.Langford). Measurement indicated first-down.

1-10-STL 47 (11:28) 11-A.Smith pass short middle to 15-M.Crabtree to STL 28 for 19 yards (27-Q.Mikell). Caught at STL 32. 4-yds YAC

seriously that's messed up



Yeah, hard to say if it had any effect on the outcome, but was very frustrating since Niners were in catchup mode and every tick of the clock is valuable...just added to the frustration of that entire game.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I gotta tell you guys, just watched the game again and here are my concerns

Great and troubling post, NC...

As is my SOP, I am focusing first on offense... slowly.. and am not excited to re-visit the D side of the ball. All that you stated fits with my recollection though.

We simply HAVE to do something different with Rogers. No sense in paying him top dollar to do what any UDFA CB could do out there.

I don't think some people are being fair to Sopoaga about his season play.. but I will say I think he hasn't been as clearly dominant as he was last year.

People hate reading this... but I am saying it anyway. I am not liking the 3-4 for us. I know it is probably not wise to switch mid-season.. so I am not endorsing that... but in the offseason? Hmmmmm....

Do yo care to elaborate? What would the 4-3 look like?

I'll take a stab...thinking out loud here.

The Cards run a 3-4 defense and like any 3-4 defense, you can play 4-3 out of it any time. They did this against us in hopes of stopping Gore. It didn't work.

But in our case, we have a well documented history of issues with big, physical RB's who can run down hill between the T's. In this game, it might have made more sense to have both RJF and Sopoaga playing inside (esp. after they established killing us there all game long) and stuff Jackson. Then you force Bradford to beat you on 2nd and 3rd downs in the passing game. You add one guy to the interior DL and take away another in coverage. You can switch back to a traditional 3-4 any time. But you make Bradford beat you...switch it up; confuse him. Did they have a tendency to run Jackson on 1st downs? Do it then...chess match.

As to a permanent switch, I can't speak to that. I'm guessing you'd have A.Smith - J.Smith - Sopoaga - Brooks FT. You're LB's would be Willis - Bowman - Grant.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
It is slow-going, but I expect to at least complete the offensive plays... ... just never enough hours in the day lately.

on a random note.. I was livid over a 3rd quarter screen pass to Amendola that led to both Goldson and Rogers missing the tackle on... unacceptable. Rogers is quickly becoming my next best enemy.

Alex is your first right? LOL
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Do yo care to elaborate? What would the 4-3 look like?

Went back to a month-old thread to link you to...page 4, scroll down briefly...

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/168338-switch-4-3-defense-already/page4/search=4-3%20defense

I'll add to what I didn't see there. For heavier sets if we expect run, I can see a DL like RJF or Dobbs being useful as a sub. We also have a bunch of draft picks to aid in this proposed offseason look. I don't like seeing Aldon out in coverage. I want him focused on attacking the QB at all times. If he does this? Then what is the point to an alleged 3-4 where u don't know where the rush is coming?

Again..I'm fine with what is.. but I feel it can get better. Adding another DL can help keep our awesome LBs more clean and free to destroy.
Originally posted by NCommand:

As to a permanent switch, I can't speak to that. I'm guessing you'd have A.Smith - J.Smith - Sopoaga - Brooks FT. You're LB's would be Willis - Bowman - Grant.

Grant is definitely a LB that I feel could start... could even play around with mixing Willis and Grant at SLB and MLB.

As suggested, yes.. we could plug in a heavier cow at DT if we fear the inside rush attack of a premiere power rusher like Lynch or SJax.
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Originally posted by DelCed2486:
Originally posted by 9erfan4life:
2-17-SF 36 (14:22) (Shotgun) 21-F.Gore up the middle to SF 38 for 2 yards (55-J.Laurinaitis, 98-K.Langford).

3-15-SF 38 (13:40) (Shotgun) 11-A.Smith pass short middle to 15-M.Crabtree to STL 48 for 14 yards (43-C.Dahl, 31-C.Finnegan). Caught at SF 42. 10-yds YAC Measurement indicate ball short of first down.

4-1-STL 48 (12:02) 11-A.Smith up the middle to STL 47 for 1 yard (98-K.Langford). Measurement indicated first-down.

1-10-STL 47 (11:28) 11-A.Smith pass short middle to 15-M.Crabtree to STL 28 for 19 yards (27-Q.Mikell). Caught at STL 32. 4-yds YAC

seriously that's messed up



Yeah, hard to say if it had any effect on the outcome, but was very frustrating since Niners were in catchup mode and every tick of the clock is valuable...just added to the frustration of that entire game.

well looking at the play by play the way the half unfolded

last play of the half
3-6-STL 35 (:33) (Shotgun) 8-S.Bradford sacked at STL 27 for -8 yards (99-Ald.Smith).

9ers could have got the ball back with about a min left instead of the clock running out

or the Rams might have faked another punt and scored a TD

who knows

oh well I'm done with this game
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by NCommand:

As to a permanent switch, I can't speak to that. I'm guessing you'd have A.Smith - J.Smith - Sopoaga - Brooks FT. You're LB's would be Willis - Bowman - Grant.

Grant is definitely a LB that I feel could start... could even play around with mixing Willis and Grant at SLB and MLB.

As suggested, yes.. we could plug in a heavier cow at DT if we fear the inside rush attack of a premiere power rusher like Lynch or SJax.

With: Brooks - McDonald/Sopoaga - J.Smith/RJF - A.Smith nobody would even bother to ever run on us ever again. Imagine all the depth along the DL even if Sopoaga leaves. Then in the draft you can obtain a high pick SAM or FS and an edge rusher to spell Brooks/Aldon and that guy may already be on our team on I.R. With Grant, I believe he used to play the SAM in a 4-3 anyhow, right? Groom his replacement this year.

Otherwise, just scheme better and stop being so freaking stubborn Vic/Harbaugh with your soft-azz coverage schemes and zero imagination with pass rush (even though we have the best 4 LBers in the game) and when we DO play a bigger, physical back, at least CONSIDER some schemes as part of this chess match that is called football. Stubborn!

I thought we got rid of all our vanilla coaches from Singletary, to Nolan to Manusky to Raye, etc.
Originally posted by NCommand:
With Grant, I believe he used to play the SAM in a 4-3 anyhow, right? Groom his replacement this year.

Grant started half a season with the Rams 4-3 as an outside backer... but he was still getting bigger physically and I don't recall which side he plays on. Think it was WLB..but he has versatility to handle a role for us if need be.

And again..I am not on a 4-3 crusade... just been thinking about it. Think I'll do this for my GM Mock.. just for sh*ts and giggles.
i think the run D's problem is Sopoaga. Teams are targeting him up the middle and are having a lot of success and also raymac gets beat sometimes also which allows the O-line to get blocks onto willis and bowman
Originally posted by NCommand:
I'll take a stab...thinking out loud here.

The Cards run a 3-4 defense and like any 3-4 defense, you can play 4-3 out of it any time. They did this against us in hopes of stopping Gore. It didn't work.

But in our case, we have a well documented history of issues with big, physical RB's who can run down hill between the T's. In this game, it might have made more sense to have both RJF and Sopoaga playing inside (esp. after they established killing us there all game long) and stuff Jackson. Then you force Bradford to beat you on 2nd and 3rd downs in the passing game. You add one guy to the interior DL and take away another in coverage. You can switch back to a traditional 3-4 any time. But you make Bradford beat you...switch it up; confuse him. Did they have a tendency to run Jackson on 1st downs? Do it then...chess match.

As to a permanent switch, I can't speak to that. I'm guessing you'd have A.Smith - J.Smith - Sopoaga - Brooks FT. You're LB's would be Willis - Bowman - Grant.

What about Ray Mac? I think he'd be better on the edge than Brooks if it was full time.


Willis- Bowman- Brooks

A.Smith-J.Smith-Soap-Mac

Looks pretty dangerous. Still, not very excited as I feel like we are wasting Willis and Bowman somehow. We might be better of just getting a big bodied 3-4 nose tackle in next years draft.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
What about Ray Mac? I think he'd be better on the edge than Brooks if it was full time.


Willis- Bowman- Brooks

A.Smith-J.Smith-Soap-Mac

Looks pretty dangerous. Still, not very excited as I feel like we are wasting Willis and Bowman somehow. We might be better of just getting a big bodied 3-4 nose tackle in next years draft.

That's been my solution literally, since Vince Wilfork went to NE instead of us...every single year!

As to Brooks at SAM and McDonald at LDE in the 4-3, you typically want smaller guys like Grant out at SAM as they will be covering more ground laterally. And your DT's in the 4-3 tend to be more slashing types (think of BY). That's McDonald. Brooks is ideal at LDE b/c he's stellar at sealing the edge (and can pass rush too and would have more 1on1's) and he would allow Grant to play in space more freely and with McDonald inside, his game can get back to that slasher role where he can use his quickness to burst through gaps and make plays in the backfield vs. taking on two guys to free up Brooks/Bowman. But I think Brooks is too big for a 4-3 SAM and McDonald isn't really a pure edge rusher at around 290-300 and it's not really his strength IMHO.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
What about Ray Mac? I think he'd be better on the edge than Brooks if it was full time.


Willis- Bowman- Brooks

A.Smith-J.Smith-Soap-Mac

Looks pretty dangerous. Still, not very excited as I feel like we are wasting Willis and Bowman somehow. We might be better of just getting a big bodied 3-4 nose tackle in next years draft.

That's been my solution literally, since Vince Wilfork went to NE instead of us...every single year!

As to Brooks at SAM and McDonald at LDE in the 4-3, you typically want smaller guys like Grant out at SAM as they will be covering more ground laterally. And your DT's in the 4-3 tend to be more slashing types (think of BY). That's McDonald. Brooks is ideal at LDE b/c he's stellar at sealing the edge (and can pass rush too and would have more 1on1's) and he would allow Grant to play in space more freely and with McDonald inside, his game can get back to that slasher role where he can use his quickness to burst through gaps and make plays in the backfield vs. taking on two guys to free up Brooks/Bowman. But I think Brooks is too big for a 4-3 SAM and McDonald isn't really a pure edge rusher at around 290-300 and it's not really his strength IMHO.

I guess I would be worried that Brooks would wear down on the line. He's big for an OLB, but not for a DE. I think going head to head with guys the size of Anthony Davis week in and week out could cause injury. I know he faces RT now, but he's engaging more on his terms, I believe. Its not so much smashing into each other. I could be wrong though.
[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Nov 13, 2012 at 12:25 PM ]
McDonald would be a good LE in "heavier" packages to stop the run. He would be like your 285 lb Charles Grant... classic run-stopping LE with some pass rush ability. I prefer more of Brooks at LE, as Justin and Ray inside is a proven threat vs interior OL. Aldon is the perfect RE rusher.
Carlos Rogers' game is on the decline. I'm not saying it's easy covering grease lightning WR's, like Amendola, but Rogers was a step behind all day. He's still our best option when it comes to covering the slot WR, but it's definitely a weakness on an otherwise strong defensive secondary.
Originally posted by NCommand:
That's been my solution literally, since Vince Wilfork went to NE instead of us...every single year!

Sure I don't have to tell you how difficult it is to find a Vince Wilfork in the draft. That's why 3-4 teams have gone to a 1-gap scheme. Finding that 2-gap plugger that can take multiple OL and hold the POA plus get some push up the middle on pass plays? Yeah.. few do that well enough.

Going 4-3 eliminates the need to sign Sopo or find a new NT. Years ago when I suggested 4-3.. people said, "hey, it's just as hard to find a quality 4-3 RE as it is to find a quality NT." While that may be true? We already have the young studly 4-3 RE.