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Is this the type of WCO you expected?

Is this the type of WCO you expected?

Originally posted by 1For13On3rdDown:
You must have grown up in the 90's. Nobody was calling it the "West Coast Offense" until Bill Parcells slighted the team following the Giants' win in the 1985-86 wildcard playoff game. He meant it as an insult, but it stuck. Nobody and their "mamma" coined the term. It was a term coined for the Sid Gillman Chargers' offenses.

What's really idiotic is that you took a tongue-in-cheek remark about the FBI having a file on me literally.

I don't believe WCO is under copy right so it is open to interpretation. Even Walsh refused to use WCO as a system name, whether to describe his or any other coach's. Your attempt to be the guiding expert in all things Walsh is amusing though and you have all those tapes! While the WCO started out as a put down, much as calling Walsh "a genius" was a put down, both have become venerated through time and by success.
No. I was hoping we could complete a pass for more than 5 yards. A 6 or 7 yarder would be a real thrill once in a while....
I think once Kaepernick is named starting QB (which will be next year without a doubt), then and only then do we have the foundation needed to run a WCO. Eventually Frank will phased out and I don't think Kendall will ever be the runner that Gore is so we'll morph into more a passing team with CK at the helm.
This is not the offense I expected but in some ways it is. In the WCO your quarterback needs to make quick decisions and hit receivers in stride. Those are Two weaknesses in Alex smiths game. Your receivers have to be able to get off the ball so it's easier on him. That's not really happening either. That's why this passing game is struggling.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
I don't believe WCO is under copy right so it is open to interpretation. Even Walsh refused to use WCO as a system name, whether to describe his or any other coach's. Your attempt to be the guiding expert in all things Walsh is amusing though and you have all those tapes! While the WCO started out as a put down, much as calling Walsh "a genius" was a put down, both have become venerated through time and by success.

No, it really isn't open to interpretation. I could say, "the West Coast Offense is a type of fish that lives in the Atlantic," but then I'd be an idiot. Similarly, I could claim the West Coast Offense means a system in which there is a quarterback involved, and therefore every team in the NFL runs the West Coast Offense, but that would also be idiotic.

I'm not attempting to be anything - I do know what Bill Walsh's offense was, unlike most people. I love how you sarcastically refer to my "tapes" (DVDs), as though having the actual games and analyzing them doesn't make me more qualified to talk about it than a bunch of people who either never saw the 49ers play during the Walsh years, or saw it so long ago that they don't even remember it well enough to speak on it with any sort of accuracy.
Originally posted by 1For13On3rdDown:
No, it really isn't open to interpretation. I could say, "the West Coast Offense is a type of fish that lives in the Atlantic," but then I'd be an idiot. Similarly, I could claim the West Coast Offense means a system in which there is a quarterback involved, and therefore every team in the NFL runs the West Coast Offense, but that would also be idiotic.

I'm not attempting to be anything - I do know what Bill Walsh's offense was, unlike most people. I love how you sarcastically refer to my "tapes" (DVDs), as though having the actual games and analyzing them doesn't make me more qualified to talk about it than a bunch of people who either never saw the 49ers play during the Walsh years, or saw it so long ago that they don't even remember it well enough to speak on it with any sort of accuracy.

My sarcasm is toward your arrogance, not an attempt to dismiss your expertise...or whatever it is. As far as the WCO is concerned, you miss the point again as the WCO was never a system but a description, as you accurately stated, meant to be derisive. So, in a way you are saying you know what a unicorn is and I am happy for you. But to say that anyone using the term has to accept your interpretation is just...too...much!

My use of tapes is an age thing and has nothing to do with you at all. DVDs, CD, Cassettes, 8 track, whatever. The fact that you take it personally indicates how self involved you are. But I actually am enjoying your posts because too little is said about the Walsh years and the brilliance of his offenses.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
My sarcasm is toward your arrogance, not an attempt to dismiss your expertise...or whatever it is. As far as the WCO is concerned, you miss the point again as the WCO was never a system but a description, as you accurately stated, meant to be derisive. So, in a way you are saying you know what a unicorn is and I am happy for you. But to say that anyone using the term has to accept your interpretation is just...too...much!

My use of tapes is an age thing and has nothing to do with you at all. DVDs, CD, Cassettes, 8 track, whatever. The fact that you take it personally indicates how self involved you are. But I actually am enjoying your posts because too little is said about the Walsh years and the brilliance of his offenses.
I'm speaking in terms of what people think Bill Walsh's offense was. The term is just a term (and a recycled term at that), which I indicated in a disclaimer to begin my first post in this thread. But, operating under the proposition that Bill Walsh's offense = "West Coast Offense," I am here to tell people they haven't a clue what Bill Walsh's offense was actually like.
Originally posted by 1For13On3rdDown:
I'm speaking in terms of what people think Bill Walsh's offense was. The term is just a term (and a recycled term at that), which I indicated in a disclaimer to begin my first post in this thread. But, operating under the proposition that Bill Walsh's offense = "West Coast Offense," I am here to tell people they haven't a clue what Bill Walsh's offense was actually like.

Which is why I believe you are expressing your position with arrogance that is unbecoming. There are many folks on this board who know a great deal about football and Walsh. I don't consider myself an expert even though I followed his career before he arrived at Stanford, was ecstatic he was hired by Stanford and then rejoiced when the 9ers hired him. He is my type of football coach...100% committed to every aspect of the game so that preparation of the team would be done with unusual precision. Harbaugh is the same kind of guy, but I'm not sure he is as bright as Walsh, or able to understand every aspect like Walsh...but the fact that he knows he should is half the battle.

When you dismiss the board's knowledge, as if they are all a bunch of bumpkins just off the turnip truck...you're not going to last long or be taken seriously. You have a lot to offer, don't let this overbearing manner hold you back.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 26, 2012 at 7:48 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Which is why I believe you are expressing your position with arrogance that is unbecoming. There are many folks on this board who know a great deal about football and Walsh. I don't consider myself an expert even though I followed his career before he arrived at Stanford, was ecstatic he was hired by Stanford and then rejoiced when the 9ers hired him. He is my type of football coach...100% committed to every aspect of the game so that preparation of the team would be done with unusual precision. Harbaugh is the same kind of guy, but I'm not sure he is as bright as Walsh, or able to understand every aspect like Walsh...but the fact that he knows he should is half the battle.

When you dismiss the board's knowledge, as if they are all a bunch of bumpkins just off the turnip truck...you're not going to last long or be taken seriously. You have a lot to offer, don't let this overbearing manner hold you back.

I've seen enough people spout all the classic WCO cliches everywhere (and some in this very thread) to know that people really don't know what they're talking about. That's enough for me.

As far Harbaugh vs. Walsh...Harbaugh doesn't even seem to really be involved with the scheme to begin with. Most former NFL players aren't. It takes years to develop as a play caller/designer. You look at any top player caller in NFL history, you'll see a list of coaching experience at the collegiate level. It's not the kind of thing where you play 10+ years in the NFL, retire, and then all of a sudden are designing brilliant schemes and calling brilliant plays.
[ Edited by 1For13On3rdDown on Oct 26, 2012 at 8:19 PM ]
Originally posted by 1For13On3rdDown:
I've seen enough people spout all the classic WCO cliches everywhere (and some in this very thread) to know that people really don't know what they're talking about. That's enough for me.

As far Harbaugh vs. Walsh...Harbaugh doesn't even seem to really be involved with the scheme to begin with. Most former NFL players aren't. It takes years to develop as a play caller/designer. You look at any top player caller in NFL history, you'll see a list of coaching experience at the collegiate level. It's not the kind of thing where you play 10+ years in the NFL, retire, and then all of a sudden are designing brilliant schemes and calling brilliant plays.

There you go again! Harbaugh played 14 year in the NFL, was an assistant coach in the NFL and college for for about 10 years ( a couple while he was also playing), and the 2004-20010 a HC at SD and Stanford. Each place he worked he was known as a work-a-holic who delved into every facet of the team--ST, O, D and management.

All these years he also helped develop offenses for his father and writes plays incessantly every day.

So I'm not ready to dismiss him until his career is over. Many dismissed Walsh until he demonstrated that his methods would win super bowls.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
There you go again! Harbaugh played 14 year in the NFL, was an assistant coach in the NFL and college for for about 10 years ( a couple while he was also playing), and the 2004-20010 a HC at SD and Stanford. Each place he worked he was known as a work-a-holic who delved into every facet of the team--ST, O, D and management.

All these years he also helped develop offenses for his father and writes plays incessantly every day.

So I'm not ready to dismiss him until his career is over. Many dismissed Walsh until he demonstrated that his methods would win super bowls.

Whose play calling is it that is getting bashed by fans in defense of Alex?

To me, that says it all. Greg Roman is everyone's favorite scapegoat, and he'll probably be fired not too far down the road when the offense continues to be mired in mediocrity. Then Alex will have his 34th new offensive coordinator in 35 years, and we'll have to give him at least 2 years to learn the offense. Again.

People instinctively know that Roman's making the majority of the decisions on offense, while Harbaugh yells at the refs. You're not going to see pictures or videos of Harbaugh drawing plays on a chalkboard at halftime.
Originally posted by 1For13On3rdDown:
Whose play calling is it that is getting bashed by fans in defense of Alex?

To me, that says it all. Greg Roman is everyone's favorite scapegoat, and he'll probably be fired not too far down the road when the offense continues to be mired in mediocrity. Then Alex will have his 34th new offensive coordinator in 35 years, and we'll have to give him at least 2 years to learn the offense. Again.

People instinctively know that Roman's making the majority of the decisions on offense, while Harbaugh yells at the refs. You're not going to see pictures or videos of Harbaugh drawing plays on a chalkboard at halftime.

Actually, I have seen a few chalk talks by Harbaugh and he writes extremely neatly! Very impressive...as if he has done a lot of it...which he has because he likes devising plays...it's a hobby and a job. He and Roman call the plays together and their ideas have been pretty successful...just not liked by folks who want a more traditional passing offense.

OK...if Smith has his 35th different OC in year 2040 I promise to support a different QB. LOL.
I honestly thought we'd see more production out of the TE position and more deep passes to receivers. This opinion is based off of what took place at Stanford. Vernon Davis definitely is feared as a player, but I figured his production would be around where it was in 2009, therefore they would go to him a little more. It seems that Delanie Walker has had opportunities to get his numbers, but just hasn't caught the ball much this year. The power running game doesn't surprise me at all. It would have been nice to see Davis, Walker, and Fleener (who I wanted with our 30th pick in April) out there at the same time.
Were trying to play some wanna be Air Coryell type of pass-first offense. But at the same time its all short passes aside from the occasional (and obvious) Vernon Wheel routes. We need to run the ball more and we need to get Alex moving out of the pocket to create better "one-read and run" situations. He has clearly shown he cannot handle playing a conventional QB right now, so we need to get back to playing his strengths.
very disappointed in the offense so far. our "long" passes are 5 or 6 yards. theyre pretty damn boring on offense compared to other teams who can air it out a little