Is this the type of WCO you expected?

For me it's a big NO! The WCO I'm use to was nothing like this. Especially with the wildkap gimmicks. I'm not sure if it's that we don't have the personnel to run it or we simply aren't running it at all. From what I've seen our WRs can't catch a slant, they either drop it or can't get in front of the DB to shield them from making a play on the ball. HBs being used in the passing game was also a signature of the WCO and we don't use them enough in the flats and screens. We need to go to the signature stuff early and the big plays will come. It not only get's your qb in a rhythm but it gets everyone else in one as well.

I agree about using the HB passes and screens more, but essentially most WCO's are not the same as we were accustomed to growing up through the 80's and 90's. From Reid in Philly or McCarthy in GB they have their own little tweaks, i gotta say i really like McCarthy's style of the WCO in GB, must be from all those tapes he "took" with him to GB. Damned Thief.

But to answer no i was expecting a lot of power run stuff with some WCO elements mixed in, i know they were going to have a WCO basis to a lot of their stuff, but at the time of the hire i got the feeling JH would do whatever to win, and the whole "return to the WCO" was a little bit of lipservice. The NFL has changed, and so has the WCO, i like what we are doing, just want better execution from the QB, and a little more fight from our WR's. When they get the chances make the absolute most of them, although i think our WR group as a whole is leaps and bounds better than last year. Need to use Moss more, and sprinkle in more KW.

Short answer is no. I'm no WCO expert, but aside from scheme, I simply expected a more explosive pass game. Expected more downfield passes, even though others were right to state that I shouldn't. I thought we would be clicking better by now.. but I haven't lost hope that we will be.

The slants have been more hit-or-miss than they should be. I can live with the short pass game, but I'd like to see more YAC. We are the 6th worst in YAC. Not sure how that fits in with number of passes vs other teams, but I get that part. I still think guys are not breaking enough tackles they should break. No more Kaeper-keepers... and I'd love to see our receivers attack the football when the opportunities come.

Overall, just underwhelmed many times.. but I expect things to get better... and be clicking well by at least December.

Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
For me it's a big NO! The WCO I'm use to was nothing like this. Especially with the wildkap gimmicks. I'm not sure if it's that we don't have the personnel to run it or we simply aren't running it at all. From what I've seen our WRs can't catch a slant, they either drop it or can't get in front of the DB to shield them from making a play on the ball. HBs being used in the passing game was also a signature of the WCO and we don't use them enough in the flats and screens. We need to go to the signature stuff early and the big plays will come. It not only get's your qb in a rhythm but it gets everyone else in one as well.

King James only kind of guy huh?

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Short answer is no. I'm no WCO expert, but aside from scheme, I simply expected a more explosive pass game. Expected more downfield passes, even though others were right to state that I shouldn't. I thought we would be clicking better by now.. but I haven't lost hope that we will be.

The slants have been more hit-or-miss than they should be. I can live with the short pass game, but I'd like to see more YAC. We are the 6th worst in YAC. Not sure how that fits in with number of passes vs other teams, but I get that part. I still think guys are not breaking enough tackles they should break. No more Kaeper-keepers... and I'd love to see our receivers attack the football when the opportunities come.

Overall, just underwhelmed many times.. but I expect things to get better... and be clicking well by at least December.

I dont put that on the WRs or QB. I put that on the play calling. We run way too many corner routes and come backs, or hitch type routes. We have a conservative QB with even more conserative play calling...


Edit: I will blame the QB a little. Last game I pointed this out and thought the play calling might have to do with Smiths incosistent to poor judgement speed and space. He seems to struggle hitting moving targets not named Davis.

Originally posted by jcashen87:
I agree about using the HB passes and screens more, but essentially most WCO's are not the same as we were accustomed to growing up through the 80's and 90's. From Reid in Philly or McCarthy in GB they have their own little tweaks, i gotta say i really like McCarthy's style of the WCO in GB, must be from all those tapes he "took" with him to GB. Damned Thief.

But to answer no i was expecting a lot of power run stuff with some WCO elements mixed in, i know they were going to have a WCO basis to a lot of their stuff, but at the time of the hire i got the feeling JH would do whatever to win, and the whole "return to the WCO" was a little bit of lipservice. The NFL has changed, and so has the WCO, i like what we are doing, just want better execution from the QB, and a little more fight from our WR's. When they get the chances make the absolute most of them, although i think our WR group as a whole is leaps and bounds better than last year. Need to use Moss more, and sprinkle in more KW.

Agree with the bold. Sad, I feel the same way about the "return to the WCO" as being lip service. If we can get the slants going and passes that are meant for the backs out of the backfield (not talking about dump offs, but being the primary) it could open up so many things once the defense starts to look for it. Keep gashing them with the short stuff and they will start to inch up in coverage with the safeties. It'll even open up long plays for the next game as well because they'll have film of us doing the short stuff early. That's what I use to love about the WCO and it sux that we aren't seeing this from our current team.

is it the type i expected? Yes

Is it the type i hoped for? No


Get the ball to Davis

No.

I really don't have the answer as far as WCO solutions. I remember how Bill Walsh would mix plays and schemes up we'd move the chains quickly.

At that time we as fans not only expected the offense to score BUT we expected them to score on the first drive of every game. By score I DON"T mean a FG.

As soon as I heard "run to set up the pass" I knew it wasn't the original WCO. I'm a Stanford fan so knew JH did not run a traditional WCO, but did expect a more proficient passing game by now.

Problems:

• To run in order to set up the pass, 1st down runs have to make significant yards...yet it seems passes have worked better on 1st down this year.
• Experimenting is great but sooner or later you have to develop your go-to plays...hasn't happened yet.
• Run first means the line has to impose its will every game, hasn't happened, although it is looking much better.
• Running teams traditionally have either a very effective screen pass game or a vertical pass game, or both. The first spreads the D laterally, the second vertically.
• Smith and the receivers have to be so in sync that they achieve a very high efficiency rate...hasn't happened yet.
• Fewer take-aways means opportunities have to lead to higher scoring efficiency.
• ST has not scored or forced turn overs as they did last year, but the team is still winning.

The good news is that even though the D and ST have not scored or taken the ball away, the team is still successful. I attribute that to the offense being able to sustain drives and limit time of possession in most games. The two games we lost were both negative in time of possession. Det was also negative but by a minute.

Hell no!

I call it the Anti-WCO...it relies on big, physical OL dominating the DL's in the running game, we have micro-sized WR's, only one is excellent off the LOS (quick hands, release, first step, etc.), we have zero prototypical-sized WR's, on good pass catching RB, a QB that comes from a spread offense, etc. And that's just personnel.

As far as scheme, we rarely run staple plays such as the slant, post-pattern, crossing route, rarely use the TE's to exploit zone holes, rarely use the FB & RB in the passing game, etc.

In fact, I'm struggling to find any semblance of a WCO on any level. I want to hear a "red, 59 razor" at the LOS, not a "kill" or "roll."

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
As soon as I heard "run to set up the pass" I knew it wasn't the original WCO. I'm a Stanford fan so knew JH did not run a traditional WCO, but did expect a more proficient passing game by now.

Problems:

• To run in order to set up the pass, 1st down runs have to make significant yards...yet it seems passes have worked better on 1st down this year.
• Experimenting is great but sooner or later you have to develop your go-to plays...hasn't happened yet.
• Run first means the line has to impose its will every game, hasn't happened, although it is looking much better.
• Running teams traditionally have either a very effective screen pass game or a vertical pass game, or both. The first spreads the D laterally, the second vertically.
• Smith and the receivers have to be so in sync that they achieve a very high efficiency rate...hasn't happened yet.
• Fewer take-aways means opportunities have to lead to higher scoring efficiency.
• ST has not scored or forced turn overs as they did last year, but the team is still winning.

The good news is that even though the D and ST have not scored or taken the ball away, the team is still successful. I attribute that to the offense being able to sustain drives and limit time of possession in most games. The two games we lost were both negative in time of possession. Det was also negative but by a minute.

Great points. The WCO is predicated on the short-passing game to set up the run AND exact timing between the QB and the WR's.

Is this WCO helping to win games? Yes. So improve the WCO, at least our version of it, and make it work more smoothly and efficiently.

not really...was expecting a lot of slants...swing passes to RBs...boot legs to TEs and WR....sprint right options...but then I don't think this is Alex's strength...oh and in the old school west coast we never lined up in the I formations...it was always split RBs....

No! I don't know what the hell we r running.

I'm a Stanford fan, so yeah this is what I expected...I like it, I think it's called winning, it has been while since we did it, but I'm pretty sure it's called winning!