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How good does your QB have to be to win a super bowl w/ a great defense and running game?

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Give it up.

I've been making the Cowboys comparison for years and peeps just don't buy it. People have an inflated view of how good Aikman was based on the 3 SBs.

He threw more than 20 TDs only once in his entire career and finished his career with 165 TDs and 141 INTs. Wanna see his TD-INT ration in his Super Bowl Seasons?

92: 23 TDs, 14 INTs (His only season EVER over 20)
93: 15 TDs, 6 INTs
95: 16 TDs, 7 INTs

In his first 2 years before he got Norv, he had 20 TDs and 36 INTs. Aikman was thought to be a bust and now he's in the Hall.

Peeps kep saying "Different Age" and crap like that. Please. It was a passing leage in the early 90s with the 49ers (Young), Denver (ELway), Buffalo (Kelly), and Houston (Moon). They said THEN that the Cowboys were doing it the old fashioned way. Football isn't static. Its cyclical. Its a passing league for awhile till defenses adjust and then it becomes a running league till defenses adjust. That's what's happening now.

If Alex takes the Niners to a SB things will look much different.

Bradshaw is similar. 212 TDs and 210 INTs. FOUR Super Bowls Championships. He was also thought to be a bust. Now he's in the Hall.

Thanks - I got to Ninersnation.com for breaks of rationality. Today's QB ratings are only 4% higher than back then.

I disagree on Bradshaw though. He played pre-1978, where everyone was allowed to manhandle WRs like the Seahawks were allowed to last night.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
No. We're talking about QBs that can win a Super Bowl, which is a considerably more exclusive club than the entire league. Your statistical normalization is absurd. The fact of the matter is that at the time, you wouldn't have to go too far down the list of Best QBs in the League before you got to Aikman's name. That's not the case with Alex.

That's because there are more pass-first offenses today. That's the only difference. You have teams like GB, NO, NE, and DET that hardly ever run (NE runs more this year). Everyone had a traditional offense back then. But he had a great running game and a great defense and a HOF WR. Oh, and a guy named Jay Novacek that was an All-Pro at TE in every year from 1991-1995.

He didn't have to look through all the QBs to win. He just had to look for the last RUN FIRST offense that won that wasn't head up by Dilfer. I've been making this point for years now. The league is evelving. It does so all the time. Those that think that anything is static and "you can't do that in todays NFL" is kidding themselves. It happens all the time. I remember a few years ago people were talking about the TE disappearing. How did that work out?
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Give it up.

I've been making the Cowboys comparison for years and peeps just don't buy it. People have an inflated view of how good Aikman was based on the 3 SBs.

He threw more than 20 TDs only once in his entire career and finished his career with 165 TDs and 141 INTs. Wanna see his TD-INT ration in his Super Bowl Seasons?

92: 23 TDs, 14 INTs (His only season EVER over 20)
93: 15 TDs, 6 INTs
95: 16 TDs, 7 INTs

In his first 2 years before he got Norv, he had 20 TDs and 36 INTs. Aikman was thought to be a bust and now he's in the Hall.

Peeps kep saying "Different Age" and crap like that. Please. It was a passing leage in the early 90s with the 49ers (Young), Denver (ELway), Buffalo (Kelly), and Houston (Moon). They said THEN that the Cowboys were doing it the old fashioned way. Football isn't static. Its cyclical. Its a passing league for awhile till defenses adjust and then it becomes a running league till defenses adjust. That's what's happening now.

If Alex takes the Niners to a SB things will look much different. I'm not saying Alex will be in the hall by any stretch, I'm just saying peoples views of Aikman are completely scewed by the Super Bowl Wins.

Bradshaw is similar. 212 TDs and 210 INTs. FOUR Super Bowls Championships. He was also thought to be a bust. Now he's in the Hall.


Aikman didn't throw the ball over his receivers heads when they were wide open in the flat
[ Edited by DirtyP on Oct 19, 2012 at 1:23 PM ]
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Give it up.

I've been making the Cowboys comparison for years and peeps just don't buy it. People have an inflated view of how good Aikman was based on the 3 SBs.

He threw more than 20 TDs only once in his entire career and finished his career with 165 TDs and 141 INTs. Wanna see his TD-INT ration in his Super Bowl Seasons?

92: 23 TDs, 14 INTs (His only season EVER over 20)
93: 15 TDs, 6 INTs
95: 16 TDs, 7 INTs

In his first 2 years before he got Norv, he had 20 TDs and 36 INTs. Aikman was thought to be a bust and now he's in the Hall.

Peeps kep saying "Different Age" and crap like that. Please. It was a passing leage in the early 90s with the 49ers (Young), Denver (ELway), Buffalo (Kelly), and Houston (Moon). They said THEN that the Cowboys were doing it the old fashioned way. Football isn't static. Its cyclical. Its a passing league for awhile till defenses adjust and then it becomes a running league till defenses adjust. That's what's happening now.

If Alex takes the Niners to a SB things will look much different.

Bradshaw is similar. 212 TDs and 210 INTs. FOUR Super Bowls Championships. He was also thought to be a bust. Now he's in the Hall.

Thanks - I got to Ninersnation.com for breaks of rationality. Today's QB ratings are only 4% higher than back then.

I disagree on Bradshaw though. He played pre-1978, where everyone was allowed to manhandle WRs like the Seahawks were allowed to last night.

Yeah...rules were diff...just saying it was a similar trajectory. If Aloex had a 1 to 1 TD to INT ration these past 2 years it would be one thing, but it's currently THREE to 1.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Give it up.

I've been making the Cowboys comparison for years and peeps just don't buy it. People have an inflated view of how good Aikman was based on the 3 SBs.

He threw more than 20 TDs only once in his entire career and finished his career with 165 TDs and 141 INTs. Wanna see his TD-INT ration in his Super Bowl Seasons?

92: 23 TDs, 14 INTs (His only season EVER over 20)
93: 15 TDs, 6 INTs
95: 16 TDs, 7 INTs

In his first 2 years before he got Norv, he had 20 TDs and 36 INTs. Aikman was thought to be a bust and now he's in the Hall.

Peeps kep saying "Different Age" and crap like that. Please. It was a passing leage in the early 90s with the 49ers (Young), Denver (ELway), Buffalo (Kelly), and Houston (Moon). They said THEN that the Cowboys were doing it the old fashioned way. Football isn't static. Its cyclical. Its a passing league for awhile till defenses adjust and then it becomes a running league till defenses adjust. That's what's happening now.

If Alex takes the Niners to a SB things will look much different. I'm not saying Alex will be in the hall by any stretch, I'm just saying peoples views of Aikman are completely scewed by the Super Bowl Wins.

Bradshaw is similar. 212 TDs and 210 INTs. FOUR Super Bowls Championships. He was also thought to be a bust. Now he's in the Hall.


Aikman didn't throw the ball over his receivers heads when they were wide open in the flat

Nope..that 61% comp % never missed a WR. Ever.
  • Axl49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,354
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Give it up.

I've been making the Cowboys comparison for years and peeps just don't buy it. People have an inflated view of how good Aikman was based on the 3 SBs.

He threw more than 20 TDs only once in his entire career and finished his career with 165 TDs and 141 INTs. Wanna see his TD-INT ration in his Super Bowl Seasons?

92: 23 TDs, 14 INTs (His only season EVER over 20)
93: 15 TDs, 6 INTs
95: 16 TDs, 7 INTs

In his first 2 years before he got Norv, he had 20 TDs and 36 INTs. Aikman was thought to be a bust and now he's in the Hall.

Peeps kep saying "Different Age" and crap like that. Please. It was a passing leage in the early 90s with the 49ers (Young), Denver (ELway), Buffalo (Kelly), and Houston (Moon). They said THEN that the Cowboys were doing it the old fashioned way. Football isn't static. Its cyclical. Its a passing league for awhile till defenses adjust and then it becomes a running league till defenses adjust. That's what's happening now.

If Alex takes the Niners to a SB things will look much different. I'm not saying Alex will be in the hall by any stretch, I'm just saying peoples views of Aikman are completely scewed by the Super Bowl Wins.

Bradshaw is similar. 212 TDs and 210 INTs. FOUR Super Bowls Championships. He was also thought to be a bust. Now he's in the Hall.

The major difference is that Alex has to make big plays and win big games when it counts like those guys did. No one said we want a pretty win we just want a WIN. Alex showed some of that against Brees last year. This year we fall behind early even by 6 points and he can get us out. That is a combination of our stupid plays calls and giving up on run too early and him just needing to make the plays when they must be made ie( Moss last night, All game against Giants, Against Vikings). Again lets hope he learns form this after bye we have a lot of football guys. It really does depend on Alex he is QB not Kap and not Tolzien.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Give it up.

I've been making the Cowboys comparison for years and peeps just don't buy it. People have an inflated view of how good Aikman was based on the 3 SBs.

He threw more than 20 TDs only once in his entire career and finished his career with 165 TDs and 141 INTs. Wanna see his TD-INT ration in his Super Bowl Seasons?

92: 23 TDs, 14 INTs (His only season EVER over 20)
93: 15 TDs, 6 INTs
95: 16 TDs, 7 INTs

In his first 2 years before he got Norv, he had 20 TDs and 36 INTs. Aikman was thought to be a bust and now he's in the Hall.

Peeps kep saying "Different Age" and crap like that. Please. It was a passing leage in the early 90s with the 49ers (Young), Denver (ELway), Buffalo (Kelly), and Houston (Moon). They said THEN that the Cowboys were doing it the old fashioned way. Football isn't static. Its cyclical. Its a passing league for awhile till defenses adjust and then it becomes a running league till defenses adjust. That's what's happening now.

If Alex takes the Niners to a SB things will look much different. I'm not saying Alex will be in the hall by any stretch, I'm just saying peoples views of Aikman are completely scewed by the Super Bowl Wins.

Bradshaw is similar. 212 TDs and 210 INTs. FOUR Super Bowls Championships. He was also thought to be a bust. Now he's in the Hall.

And remarkably, Alex Smith's current QB rating of 93.9 would have been the best mark of John Elway's career, the 2nd best of Warren Moon's career, and the 3rd best of Jim Kelly's career. I guess Alex is on par with them too?

Or perhaps we could use some damn common sense and realize that these cross era comparisons are laughable because of how much the sport has changed.