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How good does your QB have to be to win a super bowl w/ a great defense and running game?

Originally posted by BobS:
And as much as I hate Cowboys, old, current and future trying to compare Aikman to Smith is laughable. If you want to talk about lower rung Qbs winning Super Bowls your subjects should be Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer and Mark Rypien, not Troy Aikman.

Are you serious? Smith isn't comparable with them!

Trent Dilfer had a 'career year' with a QB rating of 76 in 2000. career average? 70

Brad Johnson had a 'career year' with a QB rating of 92.3 in 2002. career average? 82.5

Mark Rypien had a 'career year' in 1991, a QB rating of 97.9. Career average of 78.9.

** basically, they had blips on their resumes. Smith has been a completely different quarterbacks since shoulder surgery.
Not to mention Alex smith missed the hell out of two very make able deep balls like he always seems to overthrow them or throw the ball to much towards sideline Again I support Alex but these are plays a guy like him being in the league as long as he has been and under harbaugh should make. PERIOD.
Originally posted by DirtyP:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
League wide averages include terrible QBs that are irrelevant in a discussion of QBs that are capable of winning a Super Bowl.

For example, Drew Brees is the the 13th rated QB in the NFL, with a rating of 90.7. You know where that would have ranked him 20 years ago? 2nd in the league. There's been a significant change in the passing game in the last 20 years. Alex is stylistically similar to Aikman, but Aikman was a much better QB.

The fact that you have to go back at least 10 years to find an example of a QB that's comparable to Alex that won a SB should speak volumes.

Not only that but the rules on defense are completely different now. You can barely even touch the QB if he's in the pocket
Alex isn't "protected" like the golden boys
another undercover AS thread huh.......
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
League wide averages include terrible QBs that are irrelevant in a discussion of QBs that are capable of winning a Super Bowl.

For example, Drew Brees is the the 13th rated QB in the NFL, with a rating of 90.7. You know where that would have ranked him 20 years ago? 2nd in the league. There's been a significant change in the passing game in the last 20 years. Alex is stylistically similar to Aikman, but Aikman was a much better QB.

The fact that you have to go back at least 10 years to find an example of a QB that's comparable to Alex that won a SB should speak volumes.

You're looking at ordinal rankings. That's wrong.

You should look at the entire league.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
League wide averages include terrible QBs that are irrelevant in a discussion of QBs that are capable of winning a Super Bowl.

For example, Drew Brees is the the 13th rated QB in the NFL, with a rating of 90.7. You know where that would have ranked him 20 years ago? 2nd in the league. There's been a significant change in the passing game in the last 20 years. Alex is stylistically similar to Aikman, but Aikman was a much better QB.

The fact that you have to go back at least 10 years to find an example of a QB that's comparable to Alex that won a SB should speak volumes.

You're looking at ordinal rankings. That's wrong.

You should look at the entire league.
Originally posted by Axl49:
Not to mention Alex smith missed the hell out of two very make able deep balls like he always seems to overthrow them or throw the ball to much towards sideline Again I support Alex but these are plays a guy like him being in the league as long as he has been and under harbaugh should make. PERIOD.

I'm sure Aikman missed tons of those passes. If he didn't he'd have a much higher passer rating.

Also, Michael Irvin pushed off like crazy on these floating jump-balls.

^ you do remember those, right?
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
League wide averages include terrible QBs that are irrelevant in a discussion of QBs that are capable of winning a Super Bowl.

For example, Drew Brees is the the 13th rated QB in the NFL, with a rating of 90.7. You know where that would have ranked him 20 years ago? 2nd in the league. There's been a significant change in the passing game in the last 20 years. Alex is stylistically similar to Aikman, but Aikman was a much better QB.

The fact that you have to go back at least 10 years to find an example of a QB that's comparable to Alex that won a SB should speak volumes.

You're looking at ordinal rankings. That's wrong.

You should look at the entire league.

No. We're talking about QBs that can win a Super Bowl, which is a considerably more exclusive club than the entire league. Your statistical normalization is absurd. The fact of the matter is that at the time, you wouldn't have to go too far down the list of Best QBs in the League before you got to Aikman's name. That's not the case with Alex.
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Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Cross era comparisons like this are absurd, especially at the QB position.

You can adjust for league-wide averages!

League wide averages include terrible QBs that are irrelevant in a discussion of QBs that are capable of winning a Super Bowl.

For example, Drew Brees is the the 13th rated QB in the NFL, with a rating of 90.7. You know where that would have ranked him 20 years ago? 2nd in the league. There's been a significant change in the passing game in the last 20 years. Alex is stylistically similar to Aikman, but Aikman was a much better QB.

The fact that you have to go back at least 10 years to find an example of a QB that's comparable to Alex that won a SB should speak volumes.

Thank you Pete.

/Thread
Originally posted by Axl49:

Which ones are supposed to impress me?
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by Axl49:
Not to mention Alex smith missed the hell out of two very make able deep balls like he always seems to overthrow them or throw the ball to much towards sideline Again I support Alex but these are plays a guy like him being in the league as long as he has been and under harbaugh should make. PERIOD.

I'm sure Aikman missed tons of those passes. If he didn't he'd have a much higher passer rating.

Also, Michael Irvin pushed off like crazy on these floating jump-balls.

^ you do remember those, right?

Oh I do Irvan most overrated WR in HOF but those deep balls in double coverage Alex missed almost every Sunday no to mention one on one Deep balls to WR. VD is the only one he hits deep cause he is so big and fast he is WIDE open. Aikman was known for accuracy ask anyone bro. Alex still has lot to prove and I hope he does it this year
Your point is so silly that you have a forum of 49er fans taking the side of a hated Cowboy QB. If it were even close, we'd be siding with the Niner.
Give it up.

I've been making the Cowboys comparison for years and peeps just don't buy it. People have an inflated view of how good Aikman was based on the 3 SBs.

He threw more than 20 TDs only once in his entire career and finished his career with 165 TDs and 141 INTs. Wanna see his TD-INT ration in his Super Bowl Seasons?

92: 23 TDs, 14 INTs (His only season EVER over 20)
93: 15 TDs, 6 INTs
95: 16 TDs, 7 INTs

In his first 2 years before he got Norv, he had 20 TDs and 36 INTs. Aikman was thought to be a bust and now he's in the Hall.

Peeps kep saying "Different Age" and crap like that. Please. It was a passing leage in the early 90s with the 49ers (Young), Denver (ELway), Buffalo (Kelly), and Houston (Moon). They said THEN that the Cowboys were doing it the old fashioned way. Football isn't static. Its cyclical. Its a passing league for awhile till defenses adjust and then it becomes a running league till defenses adjust. That's what's happening now.

If Alex takes the Niners to a SB things will look much different. I'm not saying Alex will be in the hall by any stretch, I'm just saying peoples views of Aikman are completely scewed by the Super Bowl Wins.

Bradshaw is similar. 212 TDs and 210 INTs. FOUR Super Bowls Championships. He was also thought to be a bust. Now he's in the Hall.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Oct 19, 2012 at 1:20 PM ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
No. We're talking about QBs that can win a Super Bowl, which is a considerably more exclusive club than the entire league. Your statistical normalization is absurd. The fact of the matter is that at the time, you wouldn't have to go too far down the list of Best QBs in the League before you got to Aikman's name. That's not the case with Alex.

That's because there are more pass-first offenses today. That's the only difference. You have teams like GB, NO, NE, and DET that hardly ever run (NE runs more this year). Everyone had a traditional offense back then. But he had a great running game and a great defense and a HOF WR. Oh, and a guy named Jay Novacek that was an All-Pro at TE in every year from 1991-1995.
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Your point is so silly that you have a forum of 49er fans taking the side of a hated Cowboy QB. If it were even close, we'd be siding with the Niner.

ALL OF THIS^^^^^