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quarterback controversy

Originally posted by McLovinAlexSmith:
IMHO I think Kap could give us what Alex gives plus more because of his stronger and athleticism.

No doubt that Kaep has all of the tools and, I expect, will be our starter at some point. But, do you honestly think that he could have orchestrated the drives against, for example, the Bills and the Seahawks as well as Smith did? He audibled into many of the great running and passing plays in those games.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by McLovinAlexSmith:
IMHO I think Kap could give us what Alex gives plus more because of his stronger and athleticism.

No doubt that Kaep has all of the tools and, I expect, will be our starter at some point. But, do you honestly think that he could have orchestrated the drives against, for example, the Bills and the Seahawks as well as Smith did? He audibled into many of the great running and passing plays in those games.

No, Kaps not on that level yet, he needs more reps to get there. There is gonna be growing pains with Kap, and I dont think he's good enough yet or that Alex is bad enough to gamble with the division lead on the line
I agree with you. I am excited about Kaep, but I think that Smith is the best option this year.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I agree with you. I am excited about Kaep, but I think that Smith is the best option this year.

i would say more of a safe option
Originally posted by daragon:
I believe it is time for Colin. Alex doesn't scare anyone, and I believe he actually takes away a ton of potential from our weapons on offense. Imagine how much we could get out of all of our stars on offense with Colin behind the line. He would actually throw the ball deep, and open things up for everyone with his ability to run. This coaching staff needs to stop being so scared. Risk and reward.

I watched Colin K play for 4 years here in Reno. He does have a rocket for an arm, but right now he doesn't have the touch. He would be good for outs, deep seem passes, but if you want a rainbow to drop right in, he's not there yet.

I really think the biggest issue right now is bringing him in and then if the play doesn't work you bring Alex back in and expect him to make a 3rd and long work all the time. There is no rhythm to the offense when you keep doing this. Name me a QB who has a running QB come in for one play and this veteran has been successful picking up the pieces.
Originally posted by qwestlove94:
Wow, i thought I was the one who was supposed to say the game was different?? Your point was we didnt have recievers,my point was, neither did they, and say what you want about Dilfer, but I bet they didnt go 1-13 on third down in the postseason at all

Take a look..just take out Lewis from that stat...gore was worse than Alex on conversions last season.
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Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Originally posted by daragon:
I believe it is time for Colin. Alex doesn't scare anyone, and I believe he actually takes away a ton of potential from our weapons on offense. Imagine how much we could get out of all of our stars on offense with Colin behind the line. He would actually throw the ball deep, and open things up for everyone with his ability to run. This coaching staff needs to stop being so scared. Risk and reward.

I watched Colin K play for 4 years here in Reno. He does have a rocket for an arm, but right now he doesn't have the touch. He would be good for outs, deep seem passes, but if you want a rainbow to drop right in, he's not there yet.

I really think the biggest issue right now is bringing him in and then if the play doesn't work you bring Alex back in and expect him to make a 3rd and long work all the time. There is no rhythm to the offense when you keep doing this. Name me a QB who has a running QB come in for one play and this veteran has been successful picking up the pieces.

I just moved to Somersett. How do you like it in Reno?
its not about passing yards or other statistical measures. its about completing passes that keep the offense on the field and increase our chance to score points and keeping our defense rested. if the qb can complete passes when the short dink & dunks are taken away say a 10-20 yard pass then you stay on teh field and break the spirit of the defense and opponent. you dont need to be #1 in passing yards but you need to be able to complete passes beyond 7 yards deep. you need to be able to connect on a deep pass to someone other then VD. you need to be able to make plays. you need to be able to call a play when your headset goes down without having to waste a time out in your 7th year. you need to be able to take a shot on 4th & 15 not check down. you need to put the ball into a place where the wr can catch the ball and run for YAC afterwards.
Originally posted by nevadalove9ers2:
I know there are 2 sides to this debate and many angles. We all love the 49ers and feel passionately about the direction the team should go in. Lets just try to keep this civil and remember we are all 9er fans. Now to the debate. I think for a lot of us it feels like the team is at a crossroads. We have a long break before monday night football and a bye week coming. It seems like if a change is going to be made it will have to be done in these precious weeks. I think even if you are a smith fan you have to be disapointed in his production. I guess the biggest question is can we get more from kaep and still keep turnovers low? I think we can! We run most of the time anyway and kaep is more dynamic at that. We really need to be able to push the ball downfield in our playaction game. Gore and the running backs can only take us so far. Make the change now!

Some please relieve us of this 5-2 crossroads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Originally posted by Canadian49er:
Originally posted by nevadalove9ers2:
I know there are 2 sides to this debate and many angles. We all love the 49ers and feel passionately about the direction the team should go in. Lets just try to keep this civil and remember we are all 9er fans. Now to the debate. I think for a lot of us it feels like the team is at a crossroads. We have a long break before monday night football and a bye week coming. It seems like if a change is going to be made it will have to be done in these precious weeks. I think even if you are a smith fan you have to be disapointed in his production. I guess the biggest question is can we get more from kaep and still keep turnovers low? I think we can! We run most of the time anyway and kaep is more dynamic at that. We really need to be able to push the ball downfield in our playaction game. Gore and the running backs can only take us so far. Make the change now!

Some please relieve us of this 5-2 crossroads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




and of course the teams record is brought up over and over again...and that will happen as the season goes on, even if our offense continues to look inconsistent but we find a way to beat teams....especially teams who don't put us in situations where we might have to rely on our passing offense.

this happened the whole season last year, as week after week I brought up our 3rd down conversion problems....had to hear the same stuff..."but we winning"..."don't worry we'll sort it out as the season gets going, its early and it was a short offseason"...."oh don't worry come playoff time we'll be fine, we are hiding plays" "oh what? you mean we had 5 turnovers but we couldn't put the Saints away? SO WHAT DUDE WE WON!!! ALEX HAS ARRIVED HIS GREATEST GAME EVA!!!!" the next week...horrible on 3rd down passing...horrible on connecting to WRs....."OMG WE NEED NEW WRS! "...even though in the crucial moments late in the game, the passes were skipping to our WR's feet.

so yeah expect the same stuff as the season goes on...people will continue to bring up our record, until our issues...which we apparently haven't sorted out, rare its ungly head again..which would most likely be in the playoffs.

we are not getting the turnovers like we were last year.....our special teams are struggling alittle bit. So go ahead and joke about the "over reaction".

did some folks really expect that teams wouldn't adjust to us this year? It seems like we haven't really improved on passing offense, execution wise.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
and of course the teams record is brought up over and over again

Do you deny that people that loved Shaun Hill would always point to the record to justify his greatness? Go ahead.. tell me that isn't so.

... but now that it's Alex, oh well... that just changes everything.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
and of course the teams record is brought up over and over again

Do you deny that people that loved Shaun Hill would always point to the record to justify his greatness? Go ahead.. tell me that isn't so.

... but now that it's Alex, oh well... that just changes everything.

Not to justify his greatness but to prove that a QB was able to win with all the "crap talent" Alex had around him.

Point: it's not difficult to replace the production of this team if Alex Smith is no longer the QB.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Canadian49er:
Originally posted by nevadalove9ers2:
I know there are 2 sides to this debate and many angles. We all love the 49ers and feel passionately about the direction the team should go in. Lets just try to keep this civil and remember we are all 9er fans. Now to the debate. I think for a lot of us it feels like the team is at a crossroads. We have a long break before monday night football and a bye week coming. It seems like if a change is going to be made it will have to be done in these precious weeks. I think even if you are a smith fan you have to be disapointed in his production. I guess the biggest question is can we get more from kaep and still keep turnovers low? I think we can! We run most of the time anyway and kaep is more dynamic at that. We really need to be able to push the ball downfield in our playaction game. Gore and the running backs can only take us so far. Make the change now!

Some please relieve us of this 5-2 crossroads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




and of course the teams record is brought up over and over again...and that will happen as the season goes on, even if our offense continues to look inconsistent but we find a way to beat teams....especially teams who don't put us in situations where we might have to rely on our passing offense.

this happened the whole season last year, as week after week I brought up our 3rd down conversion problems....had to hear the same stuff..."but we winning"..."don't worry we'll sort it out as the season gets going, its early and it was a short offseason"...."oh don't worry come playoff time we'll be fine, we are hiding plays" "oh what? you mean we had 5 turnovers but we couldn't put the Saints away? SO WHAT DUDE WE WON!!! ALEX HAS ARRIVED HIS GREATEST GAME EVA!!!!" the next week...horrible on 3rd down passing...horrible on connecting to WRs....."OMG WE NEED NEW WRS! "...even though in the crucial moments late in the game, the passes were skipping to our WR's feet.

so yeah expect the same stuff as the season goes on...people will continue to bring up our record, until our issues...which we apparently haven't sorted out, rare its ungly head again..which would most likely be in the playoffs.

we are not getting the turnovers like we were last year.....our special teams are struggling alittle bit. So go ahead and joke about the "over reaction".

did some folks really expect that teams wouldn't adjust to us this year? It seems like we haven't really improved on passing offense, execution wise.
http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/165109-2012-record-prediction/search=record
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
I think it is time for a reminder about coaching staffs and their duties:

First of all, the Offensive Coordinator is almost always the equivalent of the Chairman of the Board of Directors in most companies. He makes the big decisions, sets the direction, then relies on his underlings to carry out the specifics. The case is much the same in football. Other than in parts of the OTAs and TC, the OC is working with the position coaches so much of the time that there is little time to work with individuals on technique. Consequently, it is not accurate to say "Mike McCarthy did this, and Norv Turner has done that, etc..." The truth is, the 49ers were such a talentless, rudderless ship under McCarthy that there was little time to work with Smith, and it showed. Nolan looked at the offense as a necessary evil. Turner was a bit better and that example is telling. In just a short period of time, AS became a more effective player though not a great deal of technical improvement occurred. Part of that was scheme and part was the fact Norv did spend some time with Alex working on the fundamentals he had never been taught before. Martz is a schemer, not a technician. The rest of the OCs are forgettable.

Secondly, the most important person in terms of teaching technique to a QB is the QB coach, NOT THE OC. Here is where the real crime of Nolan/Singletary lie. At no time during those years did the 49ers have a QB coach who had actually played the position at any level since HS. Cincy was the only other team during those first 6 years that did not have a QB coach that had never played the position. I don't care how much football a guy has seen or played, if you haven't played the position, and understand the complexity of it and how the position needs to be viewed, you CANNOT coach the position effectively. It was AT THIS LEVEL that the 49ers did the greatest disservice to Alex Smith. Not until Mike Johnson arrived did Smith have an every-day tutor that had actually played the position and could teach it. It is IMPORTANT to note that Smith's turnaround started under Johnson. He improved in both technique and efficiency, though the technical improvements were not huge. All of which goes to show how important the position coach is to the individual player as opposed to just the OC.

Now Smith, and the 49ers, have something they have not had at any time during the Smith era; an offensive minded HC that has also played the position and hired position coaches with an established reputation of success in teaching technique as well as game plan. The result has been the best QB play since Jeff Garcia.

It is also important to recognize the efforts of the off-season in which the FO brought in 3 WRs via signings and the draft, and also drafted an explosive RB, which clearly show that the staff recognized a need to improve the receiving end of the passing game. Whether Peyton Manning had been signed or not, the FO had fully recognized that the WR corps was sorely lacking and new blood needed to be brought in. I'll leave the WR picture at this point as that topic has been well-covered in another thread. Suffice it to say, the 49er receivers are nothing special.

So before we go all crazy about switching QBs in the middle of a winning season, look at the bigger picture and realize that a QB switch at this point in the year would be ludicrous.

And after all this, Alex is still displaying the same mentality of what he doesn't like to do.

Sooner or later, after improving all the pieces around a player, that player must be held accountable for displaying the same traits he did when the talent around him wasn't as good.

So sad to read this again and see the same type of negative response demonstrating an unwillingness to even consider it's validity. No acknowledgement of the great improvement that has persisted over the past two years, no admission that it takes time to learn the WCO, no credit for the teams record the past year and a half, never a mention of his QBR being in the top ten the past two years. Just a continuous argument that there are all these better choices out there for the picking. Constant carping about what he does not do well with seldom if ever a mention of an accomplishment. Does it ever get tiring?

Edit: My point isn't to bash but to say I am dismayed DJ's very good post was so trivialized by your response.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Oct 22, 2012 at 3:48 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
So sad to read this again and see the same type of negative response demonstrating an unwillingness to even consider it's validity. No acknowledgement of the great improvement that has persisted over the past two years, no admission that it takes time to learn the WCO, no credit for the teams record the past year and a half, never a mention of his QBR being in the top ten the past two years. Just a continuous argument that there are all these better choices out there for the picking. Constant carping about what he does not do well with seldom if ever a mention of an accomplishment. Does it ever get tiring?

Edit: My point isn't to bash but to say I am dismayed DJ's very good post was so trivialized by your response.

No, all the negativity was going to our receivers lack of ability. But when it goes to Alex, then we talk about that we are winning completely ignoring that our passing game isn't difficult to figure out. Never has been difficult to figure out.
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