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Receivers need to attack the ball!

Originally posted by SFL49ER:
If we seen more throws like the Smith to Crabtree throw and catch at Seattle last year, then we will see more production. Its simple. Make the tough decision and make your receivers make a play.

(Alex does this to an extent with Davis but Alex has incredible chemistry with him too, so the trust is there. )

Getting it with the receivers too, but it shouldnt take years

Let's be honest. Alex and Davis have tremendous chemistry like you mentioned...throws into double-triple coverage in the EZ, Bills game (ultra tight window along the sideline), crossing routes, wheel routes, in zone, seam routes, etc. No issues or hesitation at all.

If a WCO takes three years minimum to learn, why wouldn't it take years for a QB and the same group of WR's to build chemistry as well like it did with VD/Alex?
Originally posted by NCommand:
You have? Aside from Moss attacking a Kaep bomb into triple coverage, I haven't see any WR "attack" a ball. Maybe Williams on the back shoulder catch? Manningham, already is our best WR after 6 games and VD was covered like a blanket. The only thing this current WR group has proved to me is that they can continue to lead the league in dropped passes, like last year. Now, we can talk about the game plans and how one WR is targeted to catch and he's usually pretty wide open for almost the entire year (until yesterday)...how we never use Moss properly, we can talk about how high a % Alex does complete deep balls, efficiencies, etc. We can talk about how one QB had all day to throw while the other was getting beat to a pulp. We can talk about an injured throwing finger, only 6 games together as a group, etc. We can even try to turn this into an Alex-hater thread but...

I'm talking about raw ability. Let's just be honest here. NY's 3 are FAR, FAR superior to ours. These guys are so good, all you have to do in throw it into the general area and they will either catch it (or knock it down). I was most impressed with their route running ability, their first step, quickness, speed, range, timing, balance, coordination, concentration, etc. They were making VERY high catches with no fear (even taking low shots on 'em but they tried!), sideline catches, circus catches, one-handers, knocking down balls, getting 5 yard deep separation, using their hands properly, etc. And the fact that they ALL are successful also speaks to their coaching!

Eli is no dummy...he's been working with these guys and they worked hard to develop the chemistry they have; saw a show about Cruz and all the time he and Eli put in in the off seasons, etc. It takes years, trust, confidence, etc. Coaches give them the green light b/c they know more often then not, they will make plays to win the game.

I'm not even putting down our WR's (after 6 games) as much as I am giving the NY Giants WR/QB props for getting to a level where it reminded me of the tradition that we once had here in SF. I'm also not blind to the fact that Eli is one lucky SOB. Between the NFCCG and this game we could have had about 6 INT's including a couple pick-6's.

But overall talent, we aren't even on the same planet right now and by the time guys such as Moss/Manninhgam/Crabtree/Jenkins/Williams get to the level Alex/VD are on (or Eli and his guys), some of our guys will probably be long long gone.

I'm talking about Moss and Manningham. These guys have proven they can make big catches that are VERY difficult catches. As for our own WR's, I always thought that they rarely are in a position to try to make those plays and we are seeing that with Manningham and Moss also. On other teams, their QB's took the risk and they may have missed some but it got them more chances to make some also.

On the 49ers, these two look just as bad as the others but limited chances has more to do with that than their actual ability.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SFL49ER:
If we seen more throws like the Smith to Crabtree throw and catch at Seattle last year, then we will see more production. Its simple. Make the tough decision and make your receivers make a play.

(Alex does this to an extent with Davis but Alex has incredible chemistry with him too, so the trust is there. )

Getting it with the receivers too, but it shouldnt take years

Let's be honest. Alex and Davis have tremendous chemistry like you mentioned...throws into double-triple coverage in the EZ, Bills game (ultra tight window along the sideline), crossing routes, wheel routes, in zone, seam routes, etc. No issues or hesitation at all.

If a WCO takes three years minimum to learn, why wouldn't it take years for a QB and the same group of WR's to build chemistry as well like it did with VD/Alex?

Because QB's like Eli do it in less time with newer receivers.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Because QB's like Eli do it in less time with newer receivers.

It's easier for folks to diminish Alex by comparing him against "the few elites".. Maybe we should tone that down though? No one is saying Alex is elite. If anything, people are saying there a only a few elites and guess what? we can't have them, so we gotta go with what we got. WE never had the luxury of developing these few elite guys with solid and steady structure... so why should we yet assume we should have one of them?
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Because QB's like Eli do it in less time with newer receivers.

It's easier for folks to diminish Alex by comparing him against "the few elites".. Maybe we should tone that down though? No one is saying Alex is elite. If anything, people are saying there a only a few elites and guess what? we can't have them, so we gotta go with what we got. WE never had the luxury of developing these few elite guys with solid and steady structure... so why should we yet assume we should have one of them?

Russell Wilson, Luck, Newton, Kaepernick (was the first QB on this team to throw one up to Moss who almost caught it)

The list can go on...but I'm sure you will note the efficiency stats. I'm not talking about being efficient, I am noting that this excuse of trust/chemistry/...whateverelse is blamed on everything but Alex is a myth. It doesn't take this stuff to properly place a ball in the air so your WR has a chance.
OP is on point .It's what seperates the great receivers from the rest. You gotta go get the ball... on good passes and bad.
Originally posted by AUniner:
OP is on point .It's what seperates the great receivers from the rest. You gotta go get the ball... on good passes and bad.

If the WR's were the issue, then we would be seeing Jenkins getting more work and develop him quicker.

For some reason, we are seeing more of Kaep than Jenkins.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by AUniner:
OP is on point .It's what seperates the great receivers from the rest. You gotta go get the ball... on good passes and bad.

If the WR's were the issue, then we would be seeing Jenkins getting more work and develop him quicker.

For some reason, we are seeing more of Kaep than Jenkins.

We're not talking about QB's here. We're talking about WR's going after the ball. Something ours don't do enough of.
Most of these throws aren't perfect and if they are, the WR is wide open...


What Fitzgerald did at 1:41 to us is what Delanie could have done. Delanie instead let the defender get in front of him because he waited for the ball to come down.
[ Edited by paperplanemedia on Oct 15, 2012 at 4:39 PM ]
Originally posted by Furlow:
This is 100% true. Moss may be the only WR we have that even has this ability. Another poster in the AS thread, and many others along the way, have pointed this out - and most are simply dismissed. But you can't ask Alex to play more aggresively and then not get mad at the WR's when they don't go up and try and make a play. It's no wonder that Smith tends to avoid taking chances.

I noticed the same damn thing during the game. Our WR's and DB's need to attack the ball more often. Seems like they try and wait for the ball to come to them instead of going to get it. Drives me nuts!
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Most of these throws aren't perfect and if they are, the WR is wide open...


What Fitzgerald did at 1:41 to us is what Delanie could have done. Delanie instead let the defender get in front of him because he waited for the ball to come down.

Delanie is 6 feet tall and tries hard to run a 4.5 forty. Fitzgerald is 6'3" and can jog Walker's top speed so it's a little easier for him to make the adjustments.

We need to throw more to Moss and Manningham deep.
Member Milestone: This is post number 200 for paperplanemedia.
Originally posted by tohara3:
I noticed the same damn thing during the game. Our WR's and DB's need to attack the ball more often. Seems like they try and wait for the ball to come to them instead of going to get it. Drives me nuts!

Yes the DBs too, but the receivers should know how to do this more than anyone on the field.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Delanie is 6 feet tall and tries hard to run a 4.5 forty. Fitzgerald is 6'3" and can jog Walker's top speed so it's a little easier for him to make the adjustments.

We need to throw more to Moss and Manningham deep.

He has the size (he's what 245?) to box him out, if he went up for it instead of waiting for it to fall in his lap.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Let's be honest. Alex and Davis have tremendous chemistry like you mentioned...throws into double-triple coverage in the EZ, Bills game (ultra tight window along the sideline), crossing routes, wheel routes, in zone, seam routes, etc. No issues or hesitation at all.

If a WCO takes three years minimum to learn, why wouldn't it take years for a QB and the same group of WR's to build chemistry as well like it did with VD/Alex?

The NYG knows this that's why they completely key in on stopping VD in the passing game yesterday and they did a good job.

As for the WRs, none of them are particularly elite. Manningham was at best the 3rd best WR from the NYG last year so they let him walk, Crabtree still lacks speed and isn't really a #1 NFL WR, Moss is way past his prime, KW lacks size and experience even as a 3rd WR, Jenkins is an unknown and Ginn is a non factor.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Most of these throws aren't perfect and if they are, the WR is wide open...


What Fitzgerald did at 1:41 to us is what Delanie could have done. Delanie instead let the defender get in front of him because he waited for the ball to come down.

Delanie is 6 feet tall and tries hard to run a 4.5 forty. Fitzgerald is 6'3" and can jog Walker's top speed so it's a little easier for him to make the adjustments.

We need to throw more to Moss and Manningham deep.

how many guys do we have really over 6'0?

Ham is 6'0
Crabs is just at 6'1
Walker is 6'0
Jenkins is 6'0
Williams is 5'10
Gin is 5'11

do we see a pattern here Joe? So the big guys adjust better and can make plays? WHY THE HELL DO WE KEEP GETTING AVERAGE OR SMALLER GUYS?