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Receivers need to attack the ball!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
But as Lonewolf said...with Manningham out? Was the perfect time to bring him in for a few downs.

Going up against Leon Washington's return skills, I'd guess we wanted to be as strong as possible, and AJJ doesn't play STs. I know Jacobs doesn't either, so I guess we could have pushed him off for another week in that case though.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One of the reasons I wanted the team to draft Fleener. He wouldn't be as versatile as Walker but already knew the system and could be making some really big receptions. Walker has had a terrible receiving year with a couple of exceptions that demonstrate how valuable he can/could be if he were able to hold onto the ball better. His tip toeing into the endzone was a very nice play for a guy his size. But wouldn't have been great to have Fleener's hands out their with VD on the other side?

YES ! I believe in our coaches and F/O.. I think AJJ may become very good.. but I still would have gone Fleener all the way for the reasons you provided. No way does Fleener do nothing on that Amukamara INT vs NYG. Walker makes some key run blocks at times.. but I think Fleener can do that as well. It isn't as if Walker is blowing defenders out of holes.. he does just enough to wall/chip/pop a defender.. and Fleener can do that as well.
Originally posted by dj43:
You keep wanting to make this all about the QB. I KNOW that Alex Smith is not Peyton Manning! I get that. However, I also recognize that the FO made major efforts to improve the explosiveness of the team, including drafting James and Jenkins and signing Moss and Manning. That tells me that both Harbaugh and Baalke realized that the "problem" was not all about Alex Smith. So we fast forward to this season and we see that those efforts were ineffective. James and Jenkins never see the field. We know all about Moss and we recognize that Manningham would have been the #4 receiver on the team that just kicked out butt last week. None of those things are about Alex. All of them point to the fact the FO and coaches realized we needed to get better at WR regardless of who played QB.

As to Moss having speed; it was widely recognized two years ago that he had lost a step. If he had suddenly gained that back and was once again Randy 2008, I am sure he would be on the field.

Crabtree is getting better but he still does not use his body to shield defenders of crossing routes, slants, curls and the like. When the pass is coming directly in to him, he still does not reach out for it much of the time. He waits for it to get closer and that gives the DB and chance to reach around and knock it down.

MM has somewhat above average speed but is not deep threat at all. That is one of the reasons NY kept Nicks and Cruz and even valued Hixon and Ramses (6'6") ahead of MM.

As to Williams, he is quick but lacks speed and size. Yes, he did beat a defender on one play where Seattle was late in covering but on the first deep ball where he was covered by Sherman, his lack of size was telling. In order to complete that ball, the pass would have had to come straight down due to the fact Sherman has a 5" height advantage plus his reach advantage.

To say it another way:

Moss had to agree to come here for free because no one else wanted him, or at least no one who had a decent chance to win anything this year. Little was expected and little has been achieved.

Williams was lucky to still have a job this year, although that is not the way Harbaugh spun it. He fits the role of a slot receiver when the team goes to 4 wide outs.

Manningham took the best shot he could to get on a team that had a chance to win and where he could play a bit. Other than for injuries, he would have seen little of the field in New York. In effect, we traded Morgan for Manningham. eh...

Crabtree has yet to play like a first round pick much less one that thought he should be a top 3. He still has lot of fundamental improvements to make. Right now he reminds me a lot of Dwight Clark, which is not all that bad but certainly no one that will scare anyone.

I am frankly surprised, and a bit frustrated, that so many are calling for Kaepernick, a very unpolished player to replace Smith but completely ignoring how much AJ Jenkins could help the WRs.

I'll just leave it like that...

Some of your analysis is accurate, but the part about Mario is not. He had 4.3 speed coming out and outstanding physical tools (outside of his size). Most likely the Giants let him go because they had guys on the roster to replace him and wanted to save money. He also wasn't the most reliable receiver for them.
I see NO seperation ESPECIALLY from Delanie.Moss gets open but not enough for a surefire completion. Crabs has the hands. A Smith is without a doubt inconsistent but he is getting blitzed (i.e. that hands to the face).
This is how to attack the ball. I don't care if he landed out of bands, the key was that he didn't allow the safety (he had no idea he was there) to intercept. Why? Because he went after it at the highest point that he could.

^^ thats not a good example
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
^^ thats not a good example

If Bryant doesn't jump and waits for it to land in his hands, the safety has a clear shot at the ball because Bryant's body would not be in the way.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
^^ thats not a good example

If Bryant doesn't jump and waits for it to land in his hands, the safety has a clear shot at the ball because Bryant's body would not be in the way.

Dez jumped high but his momentum carried him away from the ball and the Safety swatted and missed the ball
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
^^ thats not a good example

If Bryant doesn't jump and waits for it to land in his hands, the safety has a clear shot at the ball because Bryant's body would not be in the way.

Dez jumped high but his momentum carried him away from the ball and the Safety swatted and missed the ball

Pause it at 24 seconds. Bryant's body is clearly in the way of the safety.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Pause it at 24 seconds. Bryant's body is clearly in the way of the safety.

I see more of the safety then Dez at 24..but you're right he did jump high. but it was more of a fade. he didn't stop jump and attack...he just jumped
And we wonder why other QBs have more interceptions but love that Alex does not throw many INTs. All of these WRs we want have dropped or not attacked balls also. Difference is, their QB takes more risks in throwing it up to them which some result in INTs or Incomplete and some result in nice catches. Don't we have one of the best man on man attack the ball receiver ever? One would think he could jog a 10 yard fade and have Alex throw it up. Too bad the first QB who has thrown one to him while he was covered was our backup.

Has Alex threw one to him while he has been covered yet? Answer that question and you will see why our receivers don't attack balls as much as others. It's the law of averages. It's not a high percentage play but takes more than one throw every 3 games for the averages to play out.
Originally posted by Joecool:
And we wonder why other QBs have more interceptions but love that Alex does not throw many INTs. All of these WRs we want have dropped or not attacked balls also. Difference is, their QB takes more risks in throwing it up to them which some result in INTs or Incomplete and some result in nice catches. Don't we have one of the best man on man attack the ball receiver ever? One would think he could jog a 10 yard fade and have Alex throw it up. Too bad the first QB who has thrown one to him while he was covered was our backup.

Has Alex threw one to him while he has been covered yet? Answer that question and you will see why our receivers don't attack balls as much as others. It's the law of averages. It's not a high percentage play but takes more than one throw every 3 games for the averages to play out.

You're right those same laws of averages work with wins and losses as well, look how well Romo is doing with wins and losses. I'd rather take the high percentage play than the low percentage play and drive down the field on long drives so that our defense isn't going on the field as much. Now if the opportunity is there and there is 1 on 1 on Moss (law of averages work here as well, he barely sees the field), take the shot.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Joecool:
And we wonder why other QBs have more interceptions but love that Alex does not throw many INTs. All of these WRs we want have dropped or not attacked balls also. Difference is, their QB takes more risks in throwing it up to them which some result in INTs or Incomplete and some result in nice catches. Don't we have one of the best man on man attack the ball receiver ever? One would think he could jog a 10 yard fade and have Alex throw it up. Too bad the first QB who has thrown one to him while he was covered was our backup.

Has Alex threw one to him while he has been covered yet? Answer that question and you will see why our receivers don't attack balls as much as others. It's the law of averages. It's not a high percentage play but takes more than one throw every 3 games for the averages to play out.

You're right those same laws of averages work with wins and losses as well, look how well Romo is doing with wins and losses. I'd rather take the high percentage play than the low percentage play and drive down the field on long drives so that our defense isn't going on the field as much. Now if the opportunity is there and there is 1 on 1 on Moss (law of averages work here as well, he barely sees the field), take the shot.

I think paper's point is, WHEN the ball is thrown in your general direction, you fight for it...want it more than anyone else. You do that and suddenly even a conservative QB like Alex is throwing you darts in the EZ for game winning TD's and building a chemistry with you like he has with VD. Period. As a WR, YOU dictate the QB's confidence in you and you will increase your own law-of-averages...and Roman will probably call more plays your way too where you are the #1 read.

He's the QB...he has the ball in his hands every play. Earn his trust anyway you can...
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 29, 2012 at 1:21 PM ]
Im gonna go out on a limb here.....for those that have been members of this forum since Alex Smith was drafted (or before), how many years has there been a similar thread to this one, blaming receivers ?



See where Im getting at....
Originally posted by Faraz80:
Im gonna go out on a limb here.....for those that have been members of this forum since Alex Smith was drafted (or before), how many years has there been a similar thread to this one, blaming receivers ?



See where Im getting at....
the talent at WR has been thin for years, this is the only year I can say we have a pretty good group of guys
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Faraz80:
Im gonna go out on a limb here.....for those that have been members of this forum since Alex Smith was drafted (or before), how many years has there been a similar thread to this one, blaming receivers ?



See where Im getting at....
the talent at WR has been thin for years, this is the only year I can say we have a pretty good group of guys


So you're telling me that there has been a thread like this every year since 2005 where Smith has played in significant portions of games ?
[ Edited by Faraz80 on Oct 29, 2012 at 1:27 PM ]