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Receivers need to attack the ball!

  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yet the other team's QB threw 3 perfect passes to blanketed receivers.

Guess what Braylon did when it was thrown to him in the endzone? He attacked the ball at the highest point that he could get it. They also came off the line clean and got to their spot on time.

That ball was thrown where all Braylon had to do was put his arms up. It was perfectly placed. No contorting required. And the high pass to Rice where Brown had perfect underneath coverage. And the perfect pass to the TE down the right sideline that was blanketed.

Point is, all three routes were blanketed. How many did Alex throw to blanketed receivers? Why do you think he didn't? Because Crabtree won't put his arms up to try to catch it? That's not very believable.
Comparing what other team's receivers can do to what the 49ers did last night is apples/oranges, especially in the case of someone the size of Edwards. All of the Seattle secondary with the exception of Earl Thomas are much taller and stronger than the 49ers. Throwing up a jump ball to guys that are covered by a guy 2-6 inches taller than them is inviting disaster.

Crabtree has shown leaping ability but with the DBs consistently knocking him off his routes last night it is hard for him to gather himself to get up.

As someone already noted, we missed MM last night, but even with him in the lineup, the size match up will be telling. We just need speed and size in the WR corp that is not there now.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yet the other team's QB threw 3 perfect passes to blanketed receivers.

Guess what Braylon did when it was thrown to him in the endzone? He attacked the ball at the highest point that he could get it. They also came off the line clean and got to their spot on time.

That ball was thrown where all Braylon had to do was put his arms up. It was perfectly placed. No contorting required. And the high pass to Rice where Brown had perfect underneath coverage. And the perfect pass to the TE down the right sideline that was blanketed.

Point is, all three routes were blanketed. How many did Alex throw to blanketed receivers? Why do you think he didn't? Because Crabtree won't put his arms up to try to catch it? That's not very believable.
Comparing what other team's receivers can do to what the 49ers did last night is apples/oranges, especially in the case of someone the size of Edwards. All of the Seattle secondary with the exception of Earl Thomas are much taller and stronger than the 49ers. Throwing up a jump ball to guys that are covered by a guy 2-6 inches taller than them is inviting disaster.

Crabtree has shown leaping ability but with the DBs consistently knocking him off his routes last night it is hard for him to gather himself to get up.

As someone already noted, we missed MM last night, but even with him in the lineup, the size match up will be telling. We just need speed and size in the WR corp that is not there now.

Go look at those throws. The receivers did not do too much to get their hands on the ball. The balls were perfectly placed. Alex would not have thrown those and we would have said our receivers weren't open.

Randy Moss is 6'4". Braylon had Willis who is 6 feet and another player blanketing him.

You still completely ignored the comment about the placement of those 3 throws. What's funnier is we had a healthy Braylon for a short while and nothing.
[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 19, 2012 at 2:00 PM ]
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Ball must be thrown to actually see if they will do it or not consistently enough. SEA WR's saw it 4 times in one game. Our guys are lucky to see it 4 times a year when they are covered tight.

WRs must attack the ball and yes the QB must attack the defense as well

On none of those tight throws Wilson made required his receivers to "attack" the ball. One hit a well covered TE perfectly on stride and in the chest. The other was perfectly thrown high enough so a well positioned DB could not attack it and the receiver simply put his hands up to grab it. Braylon was not required to contort or leap as the ball was within his reach and he put his hands up.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yet the other team's QB threw 3 perfect passes to blanketed receivers.

Guess what Braylon did when it was thrown to him in the endzone? He attacked the ball at the highest point that he could get it. They also came off the line clean and got to their spot on time.

That ball was thrown where all Braylon had to do was put his arms up. It was perfectly placed. No contorting required. And the high pass to Rice where Brown had perfect underneath coverage. And the perfect pass to the TE down the right sideline that was blanketed.

Point is, all three routes were blanketed. How many did Alex throw to blanketed receivers? Why do you think he didn't? Because Crabtree won't put his arms up to try to catch it? That's not very believable.
Comparing what other team's receivers can do to what the 49ers did last night is apples/oranges, especially in the case of someone the size of Edwards. All of the Seattle secondary with the exception of Earl Thomas are much taller and stronger than the 49ers. Throwing up a jump ball to guys that are covered by a guy 2-6 inches taller than them is inviting disaster.

Crabtree has shown leaping ability but with the DBs consistently knocking him off his routes last night it is hard for him to gather himself to get up.

As someone already noted, we missed MM last night, but even with him in the lineup, the size match up will be telling. We just need speed and size in the WR corp that is not there now.

Go look at those throws. The receivers did not do too much to get their hands on the ball. The balls were perfectly placed. Alex would not have thrown those and we would have said our receivers weren't open.

Randy Moss is 6'4". Braylon had Willis who is 6 feet and another player blanketing him.

You still completely ignored the comment about the placement of those 3 throws. What's funnier is we had a healthy Braylon for a short while and nothing.
I am only talking about the receivers in this thread. I have made two points; one, we lack height and that was exposed last night. Two, we lack speed to keep safeties honest and that has been apparent for two years. Ginn getting healthy again MIGHT help but so far he has had no impact. Moss' height doesn't help when he is on the sidelines.

When Edwards was on the team last year he did make some plays but was hurt in the Dallas game and never played again.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yet the other team's QB threw 3 perfect passes to blanketed receivers.

Guess what Braylon did when it was thrown to him in the endzone? He attacked the ball at the highest point that he could get it. They also came off the line clean and got to their spot on time.

That ball was thrown where all Braylon had to do was put his arms up. It was perfectly placed. No contorting required. And the high pass to Rice where Brown had perfect underneath coverage. And the perfect pass to the TE down the right sideline that was blanketed.

Point is, all three routes were blanketed. How many did Alex throw to blanketed receivers? Why do you think he didn't? Because Crabtree won't put his arms up to try to catch it? That's not very believable.
Comparing what other team's receivers can do to what the 49ers did last night is apples/oranges, especially in the case of someone the size of Edwards. All of the Seattle secondary with the exception of Earl Thomas are much taller and stronger than the 49ers. Throwing up a jump ball to guys that are covered by a guy 2-6 inches taller than them is inviting disaster.

Crabtree has shown leaping ability but with the DBs consistently knocking him off his routes last night it is hard for him to gather himself to get up.

As someone already noted, we missed MM last night, but even with him in the lineup, the size match up will be telling. We just need speed and size in the WR corp that is not there now.

Go look at those throws. The receivers did not do too much to get their hands on the ball. The balls were perfectly placed. Alex would not have thrown those and we would have said our receivers weren't open.

Randy Moss is 6'4". Braylon had Willis who is 6 feet and another player blanketing him.

You still completely ignored the comment about the placement of those 3 throws. What's funnier is we had a healthy Braylon for a short while and nothing.
I am only talking about the receivers in this thread. I have made two points; one, we lack height and that was exposed last night. Two, we lack speed to keep safeties honest and that has been apparent for two years. Ginn getting healthy again MIGHT help but so far he has had no impact. Moss' height doesn't help when he is on the sidelines.

When Edwards was on the team last year he did make some plays but was hurt in the Dallas game and never played again.

Braylon didn't make plays in plural. He made one good one-hander and was not thrown to often.

Kyle Williams had a yard on a defender and the ball was thrown yards out of bounds.
Randy Moss is 6'4" and has speed.
Crabtree is showing more and more that he can attack and snag a ball.
Mario has the speed.

So, of our 4 receivers, they span across every aspect desired with Randy having all three of size, speed and catching ability.

Eventually, you will see where the issue is.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
No worries. I jsut don't agree. Delanie is a damn good blocker as we've seen with out power running game. He's constantly being singled out as making key blocks. And a damn good special teams player. And on top of that he has good speed and can be used as a weapon. He's had drops but we've seen him make plays as well.

Walker has better numbers then all those guys...Tom Crabtree my man? Come on now...

Just a quick perusal and I count at least eight #2 TEs with better receiving numbers than Walker (some much better). So from that perspective he is not as valuable as you may think. He is a Swiss Army knife of positions for the offense though and blocks well...good ST player. So I would still put him ahead of most #2's in team value, just not as a receiver--this year. If he can get in a groove and start catching the ball he will jump up the value chart.

Yeah i can dig that. He might not be the best receiving TE, but that's not really his job. Plus, he's not as bad as people think.

Like last night, he made a great run after catch. The ball was placed right in stride, where it NEEDS to be if you are targeting a #2 tight end. And if the pass was off target like some of his drops, its unfair to criticize him for being unable to haul it in.

Walker really should not be expected to make spectacular catches.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Oct 19, 2012 at 2:42 PM ]
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yet the other team's QB threw 3 perfect passes to blanketed receivers.

Guess what Braylon did when it was thrown to him in the endzone? He attacked the ball at the highest point that he could get it. They also came off the line clean and got to their spot on time.

That ball was thrown where all Braylon had to do was put his arms up. It was perfectly placed. No contorting required. And the high pass to Rice where Brown had perfect underneath coverage. And the perfect pass to the TE down the right sideline that was blanketed.

Point is, all three routes were blanketed. How many did Alex throw to blanketed receivers? Why do you think he didn't? Because Crabtree won't put his arms up to try to catch it? That's not very believable.
Comparing what other team's receivers can do to what the 49ers did last night is apples/oranges, especially in the case of someone the size of Edwards. All of the Seattle secondary with the exception of Earl Thomas are much taller and stronger than the 49ers. Throwing up a jump ball to guys that are covered by a guy 2-6 inches taller than them is inviting disaster.

Crabtree has shown leaping ability but with the DBs consistently knocking him off his routes last night it is hard for him to gather himself to get up.

As someone already noted, we missed MM last night, but even with him in the lineup, the size match up will be telling. We just need speed and size in the WR corp that is not there now.

Go look at those throws. The receivers did not do too much to get their hands on the ball. The balls were perfectly placed. Alex would not have thrown those and we would have said our receivers weren't open.

Randy Moss is 6'4". Braylon had Willis who is 6 feet and another player blanketing him.

You still completely ignored the comment about the placement of those 3 throws. What's funnier is we had a healthy Braylon for a short while and nothing.
I am only talking about the receivers in this thread. I have made two points; one, we lack height and that was exposed last night. Two, we lack speed to keep safeties honest and that has been apparent for two years. Ginn getting healthy again MIGHT help but so far he has had no impact. Moss' height doesn't help when he is on the sidelines.

When Edwards was on the team last year he did make some plays but was hurt in the Dallas game and never played again.

Braylon didn't make plays in plural. He made one good one-hander and was not thrown to often.

Kyle Williams had a yard on a defender and the ball was thrown yards out of bounds.
Randy Moss is 6'4" and has speed.
Crabtree is showing more and more that he can attack and snag a ball.
Mario has the speed.

So, of our 4 receivers, they span across every aspect desired with Randy having all three of size, speed and catching ability.

Eventually, you will see where the issue is.

You keep wanting to make this all about the QB. I KNOW that Alex Smith is not Peyton Manning! I get that. However, I also recognize that the FO made major efforts to improve the explosiveness of the team, including drafting James and Jenkins and signing Moss and Manning. That tells me that both Harbaugh and Baalke realized that the "problem" was not all about Alex Smith. So we fast forward to this season and we see that those efforts were ineffective. James and Jenkins never see the field. We know all about Moss and we recognize that Manningham would have been the #4 receiver on the team that just kicked out butt last week. None of those things are about Alex. All of them point to the fact the FO and coaches realized we needed to get better at WR regardless of who played QB.

As to Moss having speed; it was widely recognized two years ago that he had lost a step. If he had suddenly gained that back and was once again Randy 2008, I am sure he would be on the field.

Crabtree is getting better but he still does not use his body to shield defenders of crossing routes, slants, curls and the like. When the pass is coming directly in to him, he still does not reach out for it much of the time. He waits for it to get closer and that gives the DB and chance to reach around and knock it down.

MM has somewhat above average speed but is not deep threat at all. That is one of the reasons NY kept Nicks and Cruz and even valued Hixon and Ramses (6'6") ahead of MM.

As to Williams, he is quick but lacks speed and size. Yes, he did beat a defender on one play where Seattle was late in covering but on the first deep ball where he was covered by Sherman, his lack of size was telling. In order to complete that ball, the pass would have had to come straight down due to the fact Sherman has a 5" height advantage plus his reach advantage.

To say it another way:

Moss had to agree to come here for free because no one else wanted him, or at least no one who had a decent chance to win anything this year. Little was expected and little has been achieved.

Williams was lucky to still have a job this year, although that is not the way Harbaugh spun it. He fits the role of a slot receiver when the team goes to 4 wide outs.

Manningham took the best shot he could to get on a team that had a chance to win and where he could play a bit. Other than for injuries, he would have seen little of the field in New York. In effect, we traded Morgan for Manningham. eh...

Crabtree has yet to play like a first round pick much less one that thought he should be a top 3. He still has lot of fundamental improvements to make. Right now he reminds me a lot of Dwight Clark, which is not all that bad but certainly no one that will scare anyone.

I am frankly surprised, and a bit frustrated, that so many are calling for Kaepernick, a very unpolished player to replace Smith but completely ignoring how much AJ Jenkins could help the WRs.

I'll just leave it like that...
Originally posted by dj43:

I am frankly surprised, and a bit frustrated, that so many are calling for Kaepernick, a very unpolished player to replace Smith but completely ignoring how much AJ Jenkins could help the WRs.

I'll just leave it like that...

Loved your post.. really did... but this part surprises me. Surprised that you are surprised. I fully expected this by September.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by dj43:

I am frankly surprised, and a bit frustrated, that so many are calling for Kaepernick, a very unpolished player to replace Smith but completely ignoring how much AJ Jenkins could help the WRs.

I'll just leave it like that...

Loved your post.. really did... but this part surprises me. Surprised that you are surprised. I fully expected this by September.

Expected the carping but did not expect Jenkins to be totally unused!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Expected the carping but did not expect Jenkins to be totally unused!

Yeah I really thought that in the Seattle game he would have been active due to Manningham not being active.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by dj43:

I am frankly surprised, and a bit frustrated, that so many are calling for Kaepernick, a very unpolished player to replace Smith but completely ignoring how much AJ Jenkins could help the WRs.

I'll just leave it like that...

Loved your post.. really did... but this part surprises me. Surprised that you are surprised. I fully expected this by September.

eh, that was a bit of a troll perhaps. I understand that a high percentage of fans only watch the ball. They rarely watch the play that happens away from the ball. Since every play starts with the ball in the quarterbacks hands, if a play is not successful they automatically assume it is the QBs fault, unless they see the receiver drop a catchable ball. Of course you have no choice if you can only see what is on the TV screen but for those who subscribe to the coaching films or are at the game, they have no excuse for not seeing that our present WR corp is a weak link.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by dj43:

I am frankly surprised, and a bit frustrated, that so many are calling for Kaepernick, a very unpolished player to replace Smith but completely ignoring how much AJ Jenkins could help the WRs.

I'll just leave it like that...

Loved your post.. really did... but this part surprises me. Surprised that you are surprised. I fully expected this by September.

Expected the carping but did not expect Jenkins to be totally unused!

its a numbers thing--who do you make inactive to make him one of the 46
Originally posted by Joecool:
Braylon didn't make plays in plural. He made one good one-hander and was not thrown to often.

Kyle Williams had a yard on a defender and the ball was thrown yards out of bounds.
Randy Moss is 6'4" and has speed.
Crabtree is showing more and more that he can attack and snag a ball.
Mario has the speed.

So, of our 4 receivers, they span across every aspect desired with Randy having all three of size, speed and catching ability.

Eventually, you will see where the issue is.

There is a thread for each of the qb's and now a thread for the qb "controversy". Keep putting in those little stings in the tail and you will see where the issue is.
Originally posted by hofer36:
its a numbers thing--who do you make inactive to make him one of the 46

But as Lonewolf said...with Manningham out? Was the perfect time to bring him in for a few downs.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Yeah i can dig that. He might not be the best receiving TE, but that's not really his job. Plus, he's not as bad as people think.

Like last night, he made a great run after catch. The ball was placed right in stride, where it NEEDS to be if you are targeting a #2 tight end. And if the pass was off target like some of his drops, its unfair to criticize him for being unable to haul it in.

Walker really should not be expected to make spectacular catches.

One of the reasons I wanted the team to draft Fleener. He wouldn't be as versatile as Walker but already knew the system and could be making some really big receptions. Walker has had a terrible receiving year with a couple of exceptions that demonstrate how valuable he can/could be if he were able to hold onto the ball better. His tip toeing into the endzone was a very nice play for a guy his size. But wouldn't have been great to have Fleener's hands out their with VD on the other side?
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