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Receivers need to attack the ball!

Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
So you think a WR thinking his QB, who rarely/never throws a ball up probably wouldn't throw it up is lame?

I think a WR who is paid to play in the NFL should play like the ball is coming his way at all times...yeah..it is lame.

That's what he did. He was preparing to catch a ball on stride...just didn't see the defender. This happens a lot when WR's don't realize a defender is there.
Originally posted by paperplanemedia:
Something I noticed during the game. The Delanie Walker INT could have been avoided had Delanie attacked the ball instead of waiting for it to land in his hands.The other INT to Crabtree, he ran his route behind the defender instead of getting in front of him and attacking the ball. If you saw the play that Carlos Rodgers almost intercepted, Victor Cruz actually had a better shot of catching it because he attacked it at it's highest point before it got to Rodgers (Aikman even pointed this out). I'm tired of seeing our receivers expecting perfect passes and seeing guys on the other team making some tough catches. Attack the damn ball!

Hey stop picking on Delanie, he's a jack of all trades and his value to this team is absolutely incalculable, the 49ers need a dozen more players just like him....................................
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
So you think a WR thinking his QB, who rarely/never throws a ball up probably wouldn't throw it up is lame?

I think a WR who is paid to play in the NFL should play like the ball is coming his way at all times...yeah..it is lame.

That's what he did. He was preparing to catch a ball on stride...just didn't see the defender. This happens a lot when WR's don't realize a defender is there.

Which means he wasn't doing his job...he's supposed to be paying attention to such details. While he is running his route, he is supposed to be aware of all the defenders that could come into play.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
So you think a WR thinking his QB, who rarely/never throws a ball up probably wouldn't throw it up is lame?

I think a WR who is paid to play in the NFL should play like the ball is coming his way at all times...yeah..it is lame.

That's what he did. He was preparing to catch a ball on stride...just didn't see the defender. This happens a lot when WR's don't realize a defender is there.

Which means he wasn't doing his job...he's supposed to be paying attention to such details. While he is running his route, he is supposed to be aware of all the defenders that could come into play.

To an extent, yes. But his main priority is to look the ball in, which he did. It was not man coverage where he would be able to feel the DB out to be ready to fight. It was a floating DB and he would have caught the ball on stride. It wasn't like it was under thrown or anything to where he was forced to stop and leap. You've never seen a WR ready to catch a ball in stride but a DB puts his hands out and also snatches it or a FS comes over and leaps in front leaving the WR with his empty cradled hands?

It would have been different if the ball was underthrown and Delanie had already been forced to slow down and make a leap than compared a WR getting ready to catch a ball on stride.
[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 16, 2012 at 10:15 AM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
To an extent, yes. But his main priority is to look the ball in, which he did. It was not man coverage where he would be able to feel the DB out to be ready to fight. It was a floating DB and he would have caught the ball on stride. It wasn't like it was under thrown or anything to where he was forced to stop and leap. You've never seen a WR ready to catch a ball in stride but a DB puts his hands out and also snatches it or a FS comes over and leaps in front leaving the WR with his empty cradled hands?

It would have been different if the ball was underthrown and Delanie had already been forced to slow down and make a leap than compared a WR getting ready to catch a ball on stride.

My memory is that Walker wasn't at full speed when the ball came down...and you can't argue that he wasn't in range to at least grab the DB's arm and yank. Again...as it has been said, a penalty there was preferable to the INT.
Delanie was running forward, could he have stopped and planted, probably, but I still think the chances of him breaking it up are slim, a little onus is on DW but that was an under thrown pass into good coverage, Alex got fooled. NYG DB's studied us, and showed him what he wanted to see pre snap and post snap gave him different looks, Alex has been getting really good pre snap, but IMO he has always struggled reading D in his drop, and going through progressions quickly.

its unfortunate our wideouts don't often go up, but only one is taller than average and I think Moss goes up for balls, he still can pluck that thing, and fight for it. I do tend to agree Alex does not make the kinds of throws like others where only the WR can get it, the toe tapping sideline catches, some of the throws like the called back crabs TD against the bengals I think it was. Crabtree has gone up high in the back of the EZ for a couple like it, but we don't call those plays often or AS does not throw these throws often, probably a bit of both. I would love to see more threaded throws and back shoulder sideline types before I really harp on if our wr's do enough. Because as if right now most of our plays are either, you're open and the balls hitting you in the numbers, or no throw at all.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
To an extent, yes. But his main priority is to look the ball in, which he did. It was not man coverage where he would be able to feel the DB out to be ready to fight. It was a floating DB and he would have caught the ball on stride. It wasn't like it was under thrown or anything to where he was forced to stop and leap. You've never seen a WR ready to catch a ball in stride but a DB puts his hands out and also snatches it or a FS comes over and leaps in front leaving the WR with his empty cradled hands?

It would have been different if the ball was underthrown and Delanie had already been forced to slow down and make a leap than compared a WR getting ready to catch a ball on stride.

My memory is that Walker wasn't at full speed when the ball came down...and you can't argue that he wasn't in range to at least grab the DB's arm and yank. Again...as it has been said, a penalty there was preferable to the INT.

Who knows, if he would've attacked the ball the PI could've very well been on the defender.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
To an extent, yes. But his main priority is to look the ball in, which he did. It was not man coverage where he would be able to feel the DB out to be ready to fight. It was a floating DB and he would have caught the ball on stride. It wasn't like it was under thrown or anything to where he was forced to stop and leap. You've never seen a WR ready to catch a ball in stride but a DB puts his hands out and also snatches it or a FS comes over and leaps in front leaving the WR with his empty cradled hands?

It would have been different if the ball was underthrown and Delanie had already been forced to slow down and make a leap than compared a WR getting ready to catch a ball on stride.

My memory is that Walker wasn't at full speed when the ball came down...and you can't argue that he wasn't in range to at least grab the DB's arm and yank. Again...as it has been said, a penalty there was preferable to the INT.

I've seen it many times when a WR is left empty handed not aware of the floating defender. WR's rarely make a tackle on the DB in those situations. That's what Walker did. He did not see the defender.

I'm mainly debating this thinking that our WR's don't fight for balls. This specific situation, if Delanie felt a defender near him, he would have fought for the ball. It's difficult to feel out a floating defender.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I've seen it many times when a WR is left empty handed not aware of the floating defender. WR's rarely make a tackle on the DB in those situations. That's what Walker did. He did not see the defender.

I'm mainly debating this thinking that our WR's don't fight for balls. This specific situation, if Delanie felt a defender near him, he would have fought for the ball. It's difficult to feel out a floating defender.

No. You are acting as if the S suddenly jumped in front of Walker on a zipped pass as Walker was running and simply snatched it on his way to the other end zone. That's not what happened. Either way, you still seem to overlook that at the very least, it's Walker's job to dislodge the pass from the S. He did nothing, and he had plenty of time to do some damn thing.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I've seen it many times when a WR is left empty handed not aware of the floating defender. WR's rarely make a tackle on the DB in those situations. That's what Walker did. He did not see the defender.

I'm mainly debating this thinking that our WR's don't fight for balls. This specific situation, if Delanie felt a defender near him, he would have fought for the ball. It's difficult to feel out a floating defender.

No. You are acting as if the S suddenly jumped in front of Walker on a zipped pass as Walker was running and simply snatched it on his way to the other end zone. That's not what happened. Either way, you still seem to overlook that at the very least, it's Walker's job to dislodge the pass from the S. He did nothing, and he had plenty of time to do some damn thing.
I havent checked out the replay, but if the WR is there...he has to knock the ball down even if he gets called for offensive PI
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by Joecool:
To an extent, yes. But his main priority is to look the ball in, which he did. It was not man coverage where he would be able to feel the DB out to be ready to fight. It was a floating DB and he would have caught the ball on stride. It wasn't like it was under thrown or anything to where he was forced to stop and leap. You've never seen a WR ready to catch a ball in stride but a DB puts his hands out and also snatches it or a FS comes over and leaps in front leaving the WR with his empty cradled hands?

It would have been different if the ball was underthrown and Delanie had already been forced to slow down and make a leap than compared a WR getting ready to catch a ball on stride.

My memory is that Walker wasn't at full speed when the ball came down...and you can't argue that he wasn't in range to at least grab the DB's arm and yank. Again...as it has been said, a penalty there was preferable to the INT.

I've seen it many times when a WR is left empty handed not aware of the floating defender. WR's rarely make a tackle on the DB in those situations. That's what Walker did. He did not see the defender.

I'm mainly debating this thinking that our WR's don't fight for balls. This specific situation, if Delanie felt a defender near him, he would have fought for the ball. It's difficult to feel out a floating defender.

And I feel that he should have known there was a guy in zone and should have assumed he was there.

In fact, I was watching the play again....there was no way Walker didn't see him...he was right in front of him and he stepped between Walker and the ball. Walker could have easily PI'd to stop the INT. It looks like Walker wasn't anticipating the position of the ball if anything? Otherwise he could have fought for possession of the ball.

Alex probably shouldn't have put it there...but Walker absolutely should have been able to defend the pass or make a play for it.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I've seen it many times when a WR is left empty handed not aware of the floating defender. WR's rarely make a tackle on the DB in those situations. That's what Walker did. He did not see the defender.

I'm mainly debating this thinking that our WR's don't fight for balls. This specific situation, if Delanie felt a defender near him, he would have fought for the ball. It's difficult to feel out a floating defender.

No. You are acting as if the S suddenly jumped in front of Walker on a zipped pass as Walker was running and simply snatched it on his way to the other end zone. That's not what happened. Either way, you still seem to overlook that at the very least, it's Walker's job to dislodge the pass from the S. He did nothing, and he had plenty of time to do some damn thing.

You are 100% incorrect. The S had veered over and was set to leap forward/up while Walker was running upfield looking back at the ball. The S then leaped over Walker where Walker was Still looking at the ball and ready to cradle it in. This was a floating defender coming in and leaping infront/over a WR who wasn't aware of that defender's positioning.

In the Troy Smith catch, Delanie was well aware of where the defender was as it was not a floating defender.
http://www.giants.com/media-vault/videos/Giants-intercept-Alex-Smith/c61b56ac-24a7-4299-aede-3c22eca573b3

No way Walker didn't see the defender.
Originally posted by Joecool:
You are 100% incorrect. The S had veered over and was set to leap forward/up while Walker was running upfield looking back at the ball. The S then leaped over Walker where Walker was Still looking at the ball and ready to cradle it in. This was a floating defender coming in and leaping infront/over a WR who wasn't aware of that defender's positioning.

In the Troy Smith catch, Delanie was well aware of where the defender was as it was not a floating defender.

Yep. It is you who is no question 100% wrong, Joe. Walker actually stepped to the right and made the catch easier for the S. For you not to see this is just incredible.. Walker's obligation was to plant, turn and jump for the ball at the 38 yd line. If you so much as deny that or refuse to answer, then I will know that you are completely unwilling to ever be honest about anything. You already blatantly lied about zipping your mouth shut about ever assessing a QB again if JTO flopped... and yet you do the opposite and run your mouth about every QB since.
Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
Originally posted by Joecool:
You are 100% incorrect. The S had veered over and was set to leap forward/up while Walker was running upfield looking back at the ball. The S then leaped over Walker where Walker was Still looking at the ball and ready to cradle it in. This was a floating defender coming in and leaping infront/over a WR who wasn't aware of that defender's positioning.

In the Troy Smith catch, Delanie was well aware of where the defender was as it was not a floating defender.

Yep. It is you who is no question 100% wrong, Joe. Walker actually stepped to the right and made the catch easier for the S. For you not to see this is just incredible.. Walker's obligation was to plant, turn and jump for the ball at the 38 yd line. If you so much as deny that or refuse to answer, then I will know that you are completely unwilling to ever be honest about anything. You already blatantly lied about zipping your mouth shut about ever assessing a QB again if JTO flopped... and yet you do the opposite and run your mouth about every QB since.

If you can't see that it was obvious he was not expecting the defender then I don't know what to say. The debate is the false thinking that our WR's don't fight or attack balls. Most receivers don't when they don't realize the defender is in position to jump in front for the INT.

This is why you see many INTs when a floating DB jumps infront and the WR has an empty basket.