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Out-coached!

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I kind of blame the coaching staff for Alex's picks. He probably feels the pressure of CK begining to take over so he's forcing throws he normally wouldn't. In other words, he's playing outside of him self.

Partly true... Dunno if it was the pressure of CK as much as coming off the field and then being put back on in third and long situations and trying to force things. Reminds me of earlier in his career. Alex is better at playing mistake free football than asking him to be a gunslinger on third and long. Even when In our come backs he picked his punches and let a down go by rather than force it and risk a pick.

The first pick he had was a result of giving Walker a chance to make a play. The others were on him for playing outside of his style.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Also, at one point you have to hold the players accountable. We can't just blame the coaching-staff every time we lose. Our corners were sucking big cajones and never bailed us out
and could we get some pressure on the opposing quarterback please. this has to be a concern. has to be
Raymac, and J Smith haven't really created any pressure. Last year both guys were dam near unstoppable. One thing that's on the coaching though are these lames blitzes. It's like Fangio is stuck in 1997 with his blitzes. Always got the ilb's criss crossing on blitzes and that takes too much time to get home. ou have to blitz right up the a gap and put quick pressure in the qb's face. All the blitzes are slow developing.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Also, at one point you have to hold the players accountable. We can't just blame the coaching-staff every time we lose. Our corners were sucking big cajones and never bailed us out
and could we get some pressure on the opposing quarterback please. this has to be a concern. has to be
Raymac, and J Smith haven't really created any pressure. Last year both guys were dam near unstoppable. One thing that's on the coaching though are these lames blitzes. It's like Fangio is stuck in 1997 with his blitzes. Always got the ilb's criss crossing on blitzes and that takes too much time to get home. ou have to blitz right up the a gap and put quick pressure in the qb's face. All the blitzes are slow developing.

We blitz? We rush 4 guys don't we? Other teams know we don't blitz, which could be part of the problem.
First time poster here, long time 9ers fan.

As an aside I heard someone say, maybe it was Troy Aikman before the game, that Harbaughs dad had been there and they talked about what plays the 9ers would run. Am I mistaken in rememberting that Aikman said Jim was going to use some of his dads plays? Wondering if that may have been the cause for some of the Kapernick hijinks.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Partly true... Dunno if it was the pressure of CK as much as coming off the field and then being put back on in third and long situations and trying to force things. Reminds me of earlier in his career. Alex is better at playing mistake free football than asking him to be a gunslinger on third and long. Even when In our come backs he picked his punches and let a down go by rather than force it and risk a pick.

The first pick he had was a result of giving Walker a chance to make a play. The others were on him for playing outside of his style.

AS is NO Eli manning or Arron Rodgers and he doesn't have the talented WR crop like GB and NYG has. Adding Manningham to our WR crop was decent, but the reality is Manningham was NYG's 3rd best WR and that's why they can afford to let him go. Moss is better than what braylon edwards brought to the table last year, but he is way past his prime, while Jenkins is still a unknown, KW lacks size/experience and Crabtree is still slow. The strength of the team is the power running game, not the QB or the WR crop, although VD is a pro bowl TE, when the opposing defense keys in on VD, they can take him out of the game.

Thus, AS plays good only with a good running game mixed in (Last week, 300+ yds rushing = AS 300+ yds passing and high QBR). The offensive game plan and play calling wasn't even close to doing that and never adjust to doing so yesterday. The 49er coaching staff on offense made it easy for the NYG defensive coaches, end of story.
[ Edited by MrTruth on Oct 15, 2012 at 11:09 AM ]
It's one thing for JH to rev up Smith by telling him and the media, the Smith is an elite QB, it is entirely another when JH starts to believe it! Smith is an average, "serviceable" QB, the game plans need to reflect that. Smith is fine and can get us where we all want to go, but he needs to be in the system, and not the focus of the system.
  • cciowa
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speaking of bad coaching,,,, is anyone going to tell me we are ok in special teams after yesterday. another big kickoff return which killed us. we have serious problems in special teams, those two lop sided things glossed over it but they bite us in big games. same with the line play in my opinion
Originally posted by cciowa:
speaking of bad coaching,,,, is anyone going to tell me we are ok in special teams after yesterday. another big kickoff return which killed us. we have serious problems in special teams, those two lop sided things glossed over it but they bite us in big games. same with the line play in my opinion

I have said in other threads that we need Kendle Hunter returning kick off's Gin and Williams are not cutting it it's every kickoff
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Niner_Fan:
Originally posted by cciowa:
speaking of bad coaching,,,, is anyone going to tell me we are ok in special teams after yesterday. another big kickoff return which killed us. we have serious problems in special teams, those two lop sided things glossed over it but they bite us in big games. same with the line play in my opinion

I have said in other threads that we need Kendle Hunter returning kick off's Gin and Williams are not cutting it it's every kickoff
and its also just tackling people. do we really want our punter and kicker to lead us in special teams tackles this year?
  • dj43
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Originally posted by father49er:
We lost because of the turnovers. Each of the 3 interceptions, Alex stared down the receiver so Rolle can jump the route. Sorry. The game plan was sound, the players couldn't get it done. Harbaugh blamed it on planning to take pressure off of Alex - the right thing to do given we have another game in 4 days.

Not true. On one of them the cameras actually showed Alex "looking off" the left safety to keep him away from the target, then moving to the middle of the field and finally back to the target. Unfortunately, with only an under target other than MM, Rolle was able to sit back in center field and move to the ball as soon as Alex released it. Smith should have seen Rolle coming but he did not "stare down the receiver."

The first pick on the pass to Walker was a play the Giants had been burned on in the NFCC game and so they scouted it well and defended it perfectly. The safety stayed in disguise just long enough to invite the throw, then jumped it and made the play. Walker is a big strong guy but not agile enough to defend the ball against the pick.

Couldn't tell where Smith eyes went on the third pick.

One thing is clear. Each throw was "taking a chance" which is what many have asked him to do. He took chances on guys who were not open and got burned. Bad choices. Don't do it again. Play winning football, not fantasy football.
  • dj43
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Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by 24plus25er:
If anyone watched this game from starts to end and blames anyone other than Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman for this lost, then you have to be blind, crazy, or you just don't know football. The offense was fine until the started using these SILLY gadget plays against the Super Bowl Champions. I wasn't a fan when we did it against Buffalo and NYJ, so I sure as hell thought this was foolish. Yes Alex threw the picks at the end of the day, but Greg Roman might as well had put a gun to Alex's head and told him to throw a pick. In and Out, In and Out, In and Out... I don't mind seeing Kaep once or twice a game (with us having the lead), but running on and off the field in the middle of a big time game... no sir!

Finally a post that makes sense. Cheers to you sir.

Said more succinctly than I.

Games are often won early although that is not always apparent. Yesterday showed us a team that came out in rhythm that was moving the ball. The 49ers dominated early. At the time, and in review, it was clear that the gimmick plays (Harbaugh told Aikman he would use some plays he got from his father and that they would be obvious when you saw them) interrupted the flow and timing of the offense. If Smith would have been allowed to continue in the rhythm they had established and the 49ers gone up by 14 or even 10 points, the momentum that established may well have changed the final outcome. As it was, it was clear the Giants had weathered the storm and could now go to work.
I think we are 5/16 on challenges too. I understand some of those are used just timeouts but it concerns me. Could be costly at some point.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by 24plus25er:
If anyone watched this game from starts to end and blames anyone other than Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman for this lost, then you have to be blind, crazy, or you just don't know football. The offense was fine until the started using these SILLY gadget plays against the Super Bowl Champions. I wasn't a fan when we did it against Buffalo and NYJ, so I sure as hell thought this was foolish. Yes Alex threw the picks at the end of the day, but Greg Roman might as well had put a gun to Alex's head and told him to throw a pick. In and Out, In and Out, In and Out... I don't mind seeing Kaep once or twice a game (with us having the lead), but running on and off the field in the middle of a big time game... no sir!

Finally a post that makes sense. Cheers to you sir.

Said more succinctly than I.

Games are often won early although that is not always apparent. Yesterday showed us a team that came out in rhythm that was moving the ball. The 49ers dominated early. At the time, and in review, it was clear that the gimmick plays (Harbaugh told Aikman he would use some plays he got from his father and that they would be obvious when you saw them) interrupted the flow and timing of the offense. If Smith would have been allowed to continue in the rhythm they had established and the 49ers gone up by 14 or even 10 points, the momentum that established may well have changed the final outcome. As it was, it was clear the Giants had weathered the storm and could now go to work.

Fantastic points. I think most people can agree with this, thus why this place is quite functional today. Some really good civil football talk imo.
Originally posted by cciowa:
speaking of bad coaching,,,, is anyone going to tell me we are ok in special teams after yesterday. another big kickoff return which killed us. we have serious problems in special teams, those two lop sided things glossed over it but they bite us in big games. same with the line play in my opinion

They got greedy with keeping extra safeties, LBs, RBs, WRs, etc and got rid of all the ST only players that cover KR/PR, thinking they can get away with it. Another mistake on the coaching staff that might come back and bite them in the play-offs and beyond if they even make it there now...
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Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by captain_planet:
Total net yards:
Giants - 342
49ers - 314

Average gain per play:
Giants - 5.3
49ers - 5.2

Third down:
Giants - 5/15
49ers - 4/14

If the turnover margin was closer to the norm and Akers kicked well, this would have been a great game. It was the interceptions and missed field goals that cost us. The game planning and play calling weren't perfect, but we still were about even besides the turnovers.


Yeah, even when they were up just 10-3, you felt it was out of reach because of how bad we were playing.

too many gimmick plays. they need to get back to what they were doing against detroit, green bay, jets and bills. they tried to force the wild kaep/pistol offense b******t and rotated the QBs way too much. impossible to get into a rhythm when they get pulled every other play. they had success in the 1st half with smith when he was consistently playing, they started to get into trouble when they kept putting kaep in and yanking smith. they need to run Gore more than 8 times thats for damn sure. run shotgun sets with 3 or 4 options like smith likes. moss should be on the field a lot more than he is, he takes a safety with him EVERY time! whether hes a decoy or a target he needs to be out there. also need to get davis and crabs involved on the underneath stuff and on slants. lot of improvements need to be made on how they approach their offensive philosophy. gotta get the passing game goin at all costs.

Good observation. In the case of each pick, there were TWO safeties that were allowed to sit back and play center field, just waiting to poach on the throw.

A HUGE difference between the NYG and the 49er passing game was that the Giants had receivers on the field that demanded safety attention which left other receivers free to beat one-on-one coverage. Unfortunately, the 49ers, without Moss on the field, do not have anyone that demands double coverage.

The 49ers are still largely the same team they were last season. Yes, Crabtree is playing better and Manningham is better than the collection of WRs that were left over last season. However, the Giants demonstrated again yesterday that their corners are fully capable of defending MC in man coverage. Also, it is also important to admit that MM was the #3 option a year ago on the team that just schooled the 49ers yesterday.

I will leave it up to the coaches to know when AJ Jenkins is ready but to continue to struggle getting open receivers when Moss is not on the field makes me wonder why the speedy Jenkins is not in the game plan at some point. The kid must be far below the curve if he isn't even on the 45. Bad draft pick?