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Official Greg "the mad scientist" Roman Express

Greg Roman has a serious man crush on Kaep, Jim gots to break that up ASAP before it gets out of hand.
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Eric Branch ‏@Eric_Branch
#49ers Frank Gore didn't have a carry in the game's final 39 minutes.


Absolutely no excuse for this. Vernon with zero. Unbelievable.
  • sfout
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Originally posted by SealTeam6:
Originally posted by Thorhawk:
Eric Branch ‏@Eric_Branch
#49ers Frank Gore didn't have a carry in the game's final 39 minutes.


Absolutely no excuse for this. Vernon with zero. Unbelievable.

completely abandoned our proven play makers. Gore with zero carries after the first 20 minutes and Vernon with only 2 receptions on 3 targets for 13 yards pre-garbage time.......terrible game plan and terrible half time adjustments.
I'd like to point out some major concerns about Roman here before the Alex-haters turn this into their thread (save the Alex thread for criticisms there, please):

First off, after analyzing every game of Roman's tenure, I've never been sold on him. That said, I also have kept perspective and remember that we are only 1.5 years into the WCO installation but I wanted to highlight all my concerns/positives in one place and see what others think/notice:

1. Confidence & Rhythm - The best way to get a QB into the game and in rhythm is to pass early on esp. to the receivers he feels comfortable with. Every team does this. And while we DO come out passing predominately to start every game (not sure if plays are scripted or not) we have NOT been targeting VD at all and Roman seems to be destroying the few chances Alex has to get into a rhythm with the WildKreap and pulling Alex late in games such as the Giants. That doesn't bode well for either category for your starting QB.
2. WildKreap - Many posters have been highlighting Alex's play immediately after Kaep has entered the game and now, some of the long-term effects. Alex is no fool and he has seemed like a totally different person the past two games and with his fragile ego, confidence, etc. Alex is starting to look shaky, less confident, less sure of his abilities, etc. Roman took the ball out of Alex's hands twice against the Hawks at the end, played ultra conservative (even on the back-to-back running plays) and gave the Hawks two chances to tie it. And Alex looked pissed to me. I'm just going to say it...I think Roman's offense and play-calling is hindering growth for both Alex AND Kaep at this juncture. Kaep is not taking quality NFL QB snaps. He's taking college snaps.
3. WR Packages - It seems like all these packages and minimal chances seem to affect the timing of both Alex AND the receivers. They are just a bit off. Receivers are used more for decoys or to run block down field. We stick with guys such as Walker who drop passes left and right (which, I guess is everyone, really) and don't seem isolate the "hot" receiver or even put one in position to get "hot."
4. Game Plans, In-Game and Half-Time Adjustments - The offense we run is a college-like offense where the passing game is predicated on one primary receiving option...and that's it. One guy will be designed to get the ball and the other 10 players play a role in making that play successful. When that primary option is covered well, we have no plan B, time for progression reads and Alex is forced to scramble and try to make something happen...typically rolling as far to the sideline as possible in hopes someone will come open. He often times takes a short sack or makes a poor decision (gets blasted). He rarely throws it out of bounds now. He has done well avoiding many would-be sacks and picking up yards with his legs.
5. First Down Production - Was through the roofs the first 5 games and has dropped off significantly (equated to two poor games) as I'm sure the DC's are honing in on Roman's tendencies and predictable sets/packages. In general, its getting easier and easier to see what the play will be based on the formations and packages he runs out there. In fact, I'm seeing a base set of plays and trends and its the same handful of plays. RZ and EZ plays tend to be atrocious as well as many 3rd down plays; he is constantly having his WR's running well short of the 1st down marker. Coaching issue?
6. Sticking with What Works - The Jets and the Hawks game was the first time I've seen Roman find something that worked, scraped his original game plan and stuck with it to the end. This gives me hope. But my concern is that when a roll-right, pass back to VD play works, or VD seam route, fly sweep, middle or outside the T-screen pass, slant, exploiting the middle of the defense with Gore/Hunter successfully, Roman never goes back to it. When he sees a play against the Giants where we isolated Moss 1on1 why not come back to it and make Moss the PRIMARY target the next time? Roman is sticking with what DOESN'T work more than anything like continuing to use Walker in the passing game, the WildKraep (which is now getting Kaep beheaded and at risk for serious injury and doesn't bode well for confidence in his PASSING ability).
7. The Anti-WCO - This is anything BUT a WCO. If this was a WCO, we'd have two consistent, big and physical WCO-type WR's. We rarely run slants, post patterns. rarely use VD to exploit soft zones in defenses, rarely use the FB/HB in the passing game, rarely run picks, screens, attack with the slot WR. In fact, we are the ANTI-WCO more than anything. It's run to set up the pass mostly, by using big physical OL, traps, whams and in the passing game, sideline deep passes and wheel routes. It's Ravens West with college-like "receiver package" sets.
8. Plan B - Let's just be honest, we don't have one.
9. Players comments - Suggest that they all know, even Gore, that they will get minimal chances each game so they have "to make the most of each opportunity."
10. Ingenuity - While Roman seems to excel at creating mismatches in the running game (Gore called him a "genius" in this area and the best OC he's ever played under) he is equally poor in the passing game IMHO.

At the 3:00 mark, Alex talks about the "primary receiver" not being open initially on the INT to Moss. I believe this is more proof that Roman's offense is designed specifically for one primary receiver and if the defense covers it well (like the Giants/Hawks) we don't really have a plan B which is why we look so lost in ad libbing (Crabtree esp.).

http://www.49ers.com/media-gallery/videos/Press_Pass_Alex_Smith/8e06c26f-b85c-42db-9629-7faec79e2ee0

Anyway, again, don't want to make this an Alex-hater thread but to highlight some real concerns I have with Roman and this offense.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 22, 2012 at 8:18 AM ]
^ Anyone have thoughts in the official thread?
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 19, 2012 at 10:40 AM ]
All I know is that I won't be sad if Roman leaves. His RZ play calls are the worst! Even Jimmy Raye called better plays in the RZ. I still haven't seen a fade route to Moss in the endzone.
Yup

"That's up to the offensive coordinator," Davis told the San Francisco Chronicle. "I don't know what to do. I run my routes hard to get open but there's nothing there. We'll see, we'll see."
I agree with you NC. I think you hit the nail on the head with your post. That is a perfectly accurate account of Roman/our Offense.

I would like to add to that by saying that we also do not have a No-Huddle package/play set. Every offense in the NFL has one. Its used situations like under 2 min before half, or under 2 min at the end of a game. Even if you only get a field goal before the half ends, its worth it. It doesn't even have to be something intricate or compilcated. A draw, a screen, a few angled routes towards the side line, etc. Maybe 8-10 plays.

Right now Roman is doing good with the running game. I think he is taking advantage of our personel (oline better at run blocking, alex's inconsitancy/no down field threat). Add to that the NFL defenses are now built to stop the pass, and therefore have smaller, faster players. He did a marvelous job against Seattle with traps and whams. Just old school, textbook stuff.

But all this throwback, jumbo package stuff, I think has a limited life span, so, you need to be coming up with something and/or developing the offense on other ways. Time will tell if we are doing that, because we all know what the NFL stands for:

Not For Long
[ Edited by GoldandGarnet on Oct 19, 2012 at 4:03 PM ]
  • Jcool
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Originally posted by sfout:
completely abandoned our proven play makers. Gore with zero carries after the first 20 minutes and Vernon with only 2 receptions on 3 targets for 13 yards pre-garbage time.......terrible game plan and terrible half time adjustments.

Um maybe i miss heard this but didn't Gore have a rib injury and Kendall Hunter got his carries. Its not like we stopped running
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by sfout:
completely abandoned our proven play makers. Gore with zero carries after the first 20 minutes and Vernon with only 2 receptions on 3 targets for 13 yards pre-garbage time.......terrible game plan and terrible half time adjustments.

Um maybe i miss heard this but didn't Gore have a rib injury and Kendall Hunter got his carries. Its not like we stopped running

post was from sunday.
  • Jcool
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Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
post was from sunday.

Originally posted by GoldandGarnet:
I agree with you NC. I think you hit the nail on the head with your post. That is a perfectly accurate account of Roman/our Offense.

I would like to add to that by saying that we also do not have a No-Huddle package/play set. Every offense in the NFL has one. Its used situations like under 2 min before half, or under 2 min at the end of a game. Even if you only get a field goal before the half ends, its worth it. It doesn't even have to be something intricate or compilcated. A draw, a screen, a few angled routes towards the side line, etc. Maybe 8-10 plays.

Right now Roman is doing good with the running game. I think he is taking advantage of our personel (oline better at run blocking, alex's inconsitancy/no down field threat). Add to that the NFL defenses are now built to stop the pass, and therefore have smaller, faster players. He did a marvelous job against Seattle with traps and whams. Just old school, textbook stuff.

But all this throwback, jumbo package stuff, I think has a limited life span, so, you need to be coming up with something and/or developing the offense on other ways. Time will tell if we are doing that, because we all know what the NFL stands for:

Not For Long

Thank you! And excellent point about the hurry-up, no-huddle, etc. It also seems like we continue to have some issues with getting the plays in...often times I'm seeing Alex yelling over to the sideline late for the play; technical issues, having to take TO's, etc.

At this juncture, I'm wondering if it would be more ideal to let ALEX call the plays. This way he is in control of the play, knows what to expect, can roll with it or kill it as needed, etc. Right now he has no control of the offense other than pre-snap adjustments (and he's flawless here) so why not let him take the next step and be in control? He's already an expert...I honestly trust Alex over Roman in the passing game esp. in the RZ and in critical situations.
I try not to read into every beat writer...label them, only read some, ignore others, etc. Instead, I read as much as I can on the topics of interest b/c even the "poor ones" have good perspectives as times. This is one by Grant Cohn that is in line with this thread/topic on the concerns of Roman.

Should Greg Roman ask for help?Posted on October 20, 2012 by Grant Cohn

"Yesterday I asked Jim Harbaugh about the percentages of coach involvement in the offensive game planning on a weekly basis, and surprisingly, Harbaugh said it's primarily a Greg Roman production.

If the 49ers offense has a bad game, that means Roman missed or misread something when analyzing his opponent during his game planning."

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/10/inside-the-49ers/should-greg-roman-ask-for-help/

"Who is Greg Roman?

I would like to point out that, while Roman has had valuable experience in the passing game, before joining the 49ers his pedigree mainly was the running game. This bears out in his performance on the 49ers. They have a great running attack and an average to below-average passing attack."

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/10/inside-the-49ers/who-is-greg-roman/

Plays Roman can call for Vernon Davis

When designing a passing game, an offensive coordinator has what are called "people passes," and then he also has "patterns" that have progressions that can be influenced by coverage.

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2012/10/inside-the-49ers/plays-roman-can-call-for-vernon-davis/

It seems we have very few progression read plays and more people passes; plays that are designed to get one specific person the ball while the other 10 guys play a role in that play (e.g. deeper receivers start blocking down field while the ball is in the air to the targeted receiver)...the bigger problem is that our playmakers have not been targeted such as VD (Walker has been targeted much more) and there is no plan B is that people-pass-option is covered.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 22, 2012 at 7:31 AM ]
More like the absent minded professor.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
More like the absent minded professor.

Sometimes, that is the case...maybe more Jekyll and Hyde at times. Haha