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Week 4: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Was hoping anyone with replay ability or a strong memory can explain what was up with Crabtree on this play?


8:35 in the 4th quarter

2nd and 1 at NYJ 22 A.Smith pass incomplete deep right to M.Crabtree (A.Cromartie).
6mR.. pass pro held up okay for this quick throw... both backs stay in to block. Crabtree on a wheel route.. I have NO idea why Crabtree didn't attack this football. It was well placed and not difficult to get.. Crabs had much better positioning than the CB to get that one. Alex is animated with the refs, trying to claim P.I. Guess I could see a case for a no-call or a friendly P.I. Frankly, I just don't understand why a WR who wants more balls thrown his way doesn't make a better effort to.. oh I don't know.. maybe catch it? .. and people wonder why Alex doesn't throw more jump-balls to give his guys a chance?

Have looked at it. I was critical of Crabtree on this play for not going after it on game day. But after looking at replay of it, I'm much less critical. He was pushed by Cromartie in the left shoulder right at the time when the ball got there, so he couldn't go for the ball. PI should have been called. You can clearly see Cromartie's arm extended into Crabtree before the ball got there. On the play initially, it looked like Manningham should do a 'pick' of Cromartie to get Crabtree open -- no we're not cheating, we're competing As it is Cromartie knew exactly where to go and what to do. We ran the same play in the first half.

I just watched it again as well (thank you Whomeam!). Yeah, I still feel that one was on Crabtree. Single coverage...if anything, Manningham appears to pick Crabtree off more than the defender but Crabtree has GOT to attack that ball; the ball is already in the air; he's got to use his body and come between he and the defender IMO and that's a TD most likely. The route he is running, he pinches himself into a place where he CAN'T catch the ball. If you were the QB here, where would/could you place the ball better? I also wanted to note that Cromartie also PUSHES Crabtree just before the ball got there (and had his back to the ball) but Crabtree should be able to fight through a mild push. If Crabtree attacks the ball and it goes incomplete, chances are that is a P.I. if nothing else.

I felt the Jets did a textbook job of pushing our WR's towards the sidelines (even after 5 yards) and threw JUST enough timing off on those deeper throws by Alex (well placed balls mostly). Alex is throwing to the spot, which is what you do on deeper balls, and you've got to trust your receivers to get there. They didn't...or they didn't finish the route and make the play (dive if you have too).

Remember, aside from VD who is fast (creates great separation) and strong (boxes out/plays through contact to get to the spot), every other WR we have is relatively "weak" when it comes to physical contact and playing through DB's. Some are quick, some have top end speed but they seem to REALLY struggle when a DB plays them tight up at the LOS and esp. when the ball is in the air. And it appears the refs are allowing this downfield contact by the DB's now. Take notes Fangio!

I can't blame HaRoman for not calling many deeper routes or Alex not pulling the trigger on anyone not named VD so far.
[ Edited by NCommand on Oct 2, 2012 at 8:44 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
I just watched it again as well (thank you Whomeam!). Yeah, I still feel that on was on Crabtree. Single coverage...if anything, Manningham appears to pick Crabtree off more than the defender but Crabtree has GOT to attack that ball; the ball is already in the air; he's got to use his body and come between he and the defender IMO and that's a TD most likely. The route he is running, he pinches himself into a place where he CAN'T catch the ball. If you were the QB here, where would/could you place the ball? I also wanted to note that Cromartie also HIT Crabtree just before the ball got there and pushed him back but he should be able to fight through that.

I felt the Jets did a textbook job of pushing our WR's towards the sidelines (even after 5 yards) and threw JUST enough timing off on those deeper throws by Alex (well placed ball though). Alex is throwing to the spot, which is what you do on deeper balls, and you've got to trust your receivers to get there. They didn't...or they didn't finish the route and make the play (dive if you have too).

Remember, aside from VD who is fast (creates great separation) and strong (boxes out/plays through contact to get to the spot), every other WR we have is relatively "weak" when it comes to physical contact and playing through DB's. Some are quick, some have top end speed but they seem to REALLY struggle when a DB plays them tight up at the LOS and esp. when the ball is in the air. And it appears the refs are allowing this downfield contact by the DB's now. Take notes Fangio!

I can't blame HaRoman for not calling many deeper routes or Alex not pulling the trigger on anyone not named VD so far.

Will say that on one deep left sideline pass to Crabtree, Alex just overshot him. (2nd quarter, 3rd and 8) ... missed long by about two feet.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Will say that on one deep left sideline pass to Crabtree, Alex just overshot him. (2nd quarter, 3rd and 8) ... missed long by about two feet.

What time? I think I remember that one as well...
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Will say that on one deep left sideline pass to Crabtree, Alex just overshot him. (2nd quarter, 3rd and 8) ... missed long by about two feet.

What time? I think I remember that one as well...

Don't have a precise time, but I can tell you it was in the final play before the punt in the 2nd to last drive of the 2nd quarter.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Terrific job , Marvin, and the guy I was most impressed with was yours...Manningham. Man, I didn't know he did things like that. Wow. As for the rest...D played fantastic, and all were awake as opposed to Vikes game. OL was tremendous, Alex played great, RBs had a field day, TEs played great, WRs did great, and ....coaching was superb. The CK pack was fun to watch....took the jets completely by surprise by a guy better than tebow. Game was an embarrassment for jets, and Ryan said so. 9ers were impressive ...and then some.


+1

Well said.

Thanks for the thread, Marvin. Great read.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Will say that on one deep left sideline pass to Crabtree, Alex just overshot him. (2nd quarter, 3rd and 8) ... missed long by about two feet.

What time? I think I remember that one as well...

Don't have a precise time, but I can tell you it was in the final play before the punt in the 2nd to last drive of the 2nd quarter.

That was it! 3:05 2Q. Great protection, Crabree got a fairly clean release off the LOS, minimal contact down field and ran his ass off to get there and Smith just overthrew him (no air under it; more of a straight line throw). It would have been negated by a personal foul call anyhow on AD. Of the two outside deep routes, THAT was clearly the correct read; just missed it. That's on Smith.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Will say that on one deep left sideline pass to Crabtree, Alex just overshot him. (2nd quarter, 3rd and 8) ... missed long by about two feet.

What time? I think I remember that one as well...

Don't have a precise time, but I can tell you it was in the final play before the punt in the 2nd to last drive of the 2nd quarter.

That was it! 3:05 2Q. Great protection, Crabree got a fairly clean release off the LOS, minimal contact down field and ran his ass off to get there and Smith just overthrew him (no air under it; more of a straight line throw). It would have been negated by a personal foul call anyhow on AD. Of the two outside deep routes, THAT was clearly the correct read; just missed it. That's on Smith.

Except for the bolded part, agreed. Pretty sure the penalty was after the play.. so the penalty would have been tacked on afterwards.
Gore 21, we are in agreement re: ALL DONE. I am curious why we can't have Aldon on the DL all game, and just have him bullrush. Half the time he is so fast off the ball that when the QB hands off to the RB , #99 is there to greet him. I just think it a waste to have Aldon playing coverage, when we can see how he does, when just left to bullrush. Call it a 3-4, but have Aldon bullrush everydown,(ie a 4-3). Let the other guys cover. Part of it is strength, just brute raw strength. But the other part is he is so dam fast. That is a rare combo, and when you have the mindset too, I just don't see the advantage of having Aldon cover. Call it a 3-4 but play it as a 4-3.
Unchain Aldon. He is just something ultra special. He had one sack taken away in NY and another on someone else's penalty before that. The kid has a legit 6 sacks, tho credited for 4...and we have played only 4 games for criminey sakes. Turn ALL DONE loose...and let someone else cover.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Except for the bolded part, agreed. Pretty sure the penalty was after the play.. so the penalty would have been tacked on afterwards.

Touche'!
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I just think it a waste to have Aldon playing coverage, when we can see how he does, when just left to bullrush. Call it a 3-4, but have Aldon bullrush everydown,(ie a 4-3). Let the other guys cover. Part of it is strength, just brute raw strength. But the other part is he is so dam fast. That is a rare combo, and when you have the mindset too, I just don't see the advantage of having Aldon cover. Call it a 3-4 but play it as a 4-3.
Unchain Aldon. He is just something ultra special. He had one sack taken away in NY and another on someone else's penalty before that. The kid has a legit 6 sacks, tho credited for 4...and we have played only 4 games for criminey sakes. Turn ALL DONE loose...and let someone else cover.

SO much of THIS, please!
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I just think it a waste to have Aldon playing coverage, when we can see how he does, when just left to bullrush. Call it a 3-4, but have Aldon bullrush everydown,(ie a 4-3). Let the other guys cover. Part of it is strength, just brute raw strength. But the other part is he is so dam fast. That is a rare combo, and when you have the mindset too, I just don't see the advantage of having Aldon cover. Call it a 3-4 but play it as a 4-3.
Unchain Aldon. He is just something ultra special. He had one sack taken away in NY and another on someone else's penalty before that. The kid has a legit 6 sacks, tho credited for 4...and we have played only 4 games for criminey sakes. Turn ALL DONE loose...and let someone else cover.

SO much of THIS, please!