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49er/Minn Coaches Film Pass Offense Analysis

Originally posted by jreff22:
re watching this play

whoever is on Gore would have an angle to pick the throw from Alex if it was a straight shot. would rather see Gore take his guy left to open the lane, there was a lot of garbage in the general vicinity....look at 35:36

Pretty sure that was Antoine Winfield too... pretty crafty vet there.. but there is a spot where Alex could throw it that makes it tough but at least somewhat catchable for Crabtree...
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Right you are, Y2R... found it at the top of the forum... watched it closely.. and was just coming here to say that while I don't think of it as an easy pass... it is a pass you have to demand your QB to make. Crabtree was relatively open and Alex should be (and is) capable of making that throw on the move. He should have.

I appreciate your willingness to be open minded about this. It was a play that should have and needed to have been made. Cant leave touchdowns on the field like this one if your D isnt playing to its usual standard.

I agree that throw needs to be made. I also agree it's not an easy pass. That LB is 3 yards in front of Crabs. That takes perfect touch to drop it in over him. You also need to have the right amount of touch to get it there quick enough so the S coming hard from behind Crabs can't make a play either.

Now THIS is FINALLY, what we've been looking for. You found a true missed play and one Alex himself was probably referencing when he said he left a few on the field. These things happen all the time, in every game.
Thank you for this...

Edit. Watched this play...in real time; the defender looks much closer than this still picture and Crabtree looks open for just a split second. In fact, if I were Alex I would have made the quick pass to Gore for the 1st down initially. And very poor block by Gore subsequently. And I wouldn't use an absolute when you say Alex does this all the time...you ruin your credibility with statements like those.
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:48 PM ]
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Wide open and easy pass. What happened is he wanted Gore on the roll out. It was covered and Smith failed to make the next throw. This was a theme throughout this game. What is most disconcerning is these short passes are taken in agame we are losing badly.



re watching this play

whoever is on Gore would have an angle to pick the throw from Alex if it was a straight shot. would rather see Gore take his guy left to open the lane, there was a lot of garbage in the general vicinity....look at 35:36

Of course. But there is a clear pass to their rigth towards the sideline. It would take a little bit of touch but this is routine for an NFL QB. smith made this thro against the Lions to VD for a TD with a bloody nose. Exept in this case there are a lot of defenders around. Played it safe down 17-3.

Gore's defender isn't going to follow him back to the left AWAY from the roll out back into traffic.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:28 PM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
What kills me is Alex was actually looking into the endzone when he was rolling right. Its not like he tucked his head, ran, and couldnt see the open receiver. He SAW Crabtree open. He just chose not to throw it (reoccurring theme with Alex).

This. Great route design. Three levels of WRs breaking with the QB.

The third level was clear. I think Smith picks a place to throw pre-snap, and if that doesn't work out. Panics.

I don't think he panic'd. I just think he wasn't confident he could make that throw. It's not an easy throw with enough touch to get over a guy and enough zip to get there before the safety.

I think the two go hand in hand.

He wasn't confident in the throw, so he panicked and took a sack. Its a pretty easy throw for an NFL QB to make. Smith made a similar throw to VD against the Lions. Except there was no traffic.

Not necessarily. Watch the TD throw to Davis. Alex had a defender in his face and made a perfect throw. Someone that panics is going to throw up a prayer to a covered TE when Adrian Peterson is wide open.

I think it's a matter of Alex not wanting to give the defenders a chance to make a play and counting on Gore to make that block. It's not an easy throw, no matter how easy some QBs make it look.

Gore had the right angle on the block. That should have been rushed in for a TD, but Gore doesn't hit the block correctly. The defender makes a good play.
[ Edited by mkmasn on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:31 PM ]
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
What kills me is Alex was actually looking into the endzone when he was rolling right. Its not like he tucked his head, ran, and couldnt see the open receiver. He SAW Crabtree open. He just chose not to throw it (reoccurring theme with Alex).

This. Great route design. Three levels of WRs breaking with the QB.

The third level was clear. I think Smith picks a place to throw pre-snap, and if that doesn't work out. Panics.

I don't think he panic'd. I just think he wasn't confident he could make that throw. It's not an easy throw with enough touch to get over a guy and enough zip to get there before the safety.

This is what I think too. It's a harder throw than you would think. There's a defender going full speed at him 3-yards away. For every step that Smith doesn't take, the defender can cover the 3-4 yards distance. So if he gathered himself for that throw to Crabtree, it's do-able but the result may be 50/50 on how it would connects. Because that dude with the long hair would have something to say about it. Tough throw for any qb.

Maybe he did tried it in practice and the result wasn't good.
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Not necessarily. Watch the TD throw to Davis. Alex had a defender in his face and made a perfect throw. Someone that panics is going to throw up a prayer to a covered TE when Adrian Peterson is wide open.

I think it's a matter of Alex not wanting to give the defenders a chance to make a play and counting on Gore to make that block. It's not an easy throw, no matter how easy some QBs make it look.

I agree with the bolded. But down 17-3, we really needed that TD. No time to be conservative.

Maybe its not an easy throw, but its certainly not a difficult one. Should be routine for a first round draft pick in his 8th season in his second consecutive year in the same system with a WR he's played with four years. If he can't make that throw easily, maybe he really is limited and we shouldn't even call those plays.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:34 PM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Not necessarily. Watch the TD throw to Davis. Alex had a defender in his face and made a perfect throw. Someone that panics is going to throw up a prayer to a covered TE when Adrian Peterson is wide open.

I think it's a matter of Alex not wanting to give the defenders a chance to make a play and counting on Gore to make that block. It's not an easy throw, no matter how easy some QBs make it look.

I agree with the bolded. But down 17-3, we really needed that TD. No time to be conservative.

Maybe its not an easy throw, but its certainly not a difficult one. Should be routine for a first round draft pick in his 8th season in his second consecutive year in the same system with a WR he's played with four years.

We're in agreement on all accounts. The throw needs to be made, and 9 times out of ten, Alex runs that in for a TD.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Not necessarily. Watch the TD throw to Davis. Alex had a defender in his face and made a perfect throw. Someone that panics is going to throw up a prayer to a covered TE when Adrian Peterson is wide open.

I think it's a matter of Alex not wanting to give the defenders a chance to make a play and counting on Gore to make that block. It's not an easy throw, no matter how easy some QBs make it look.

I agree with the bolded. But down 17-3, we really needed that TD. No time to be conservative.

Maybe its not an easy throw, but its certainly not a difficult one. Should be routine for a first round draft pick in his 8th season in his second consecutive year in the same system with a WR he's played with four years. If he can't make that throw easily, maybe he really is limited and we shouldn't even call those plays.

I think it's just been beaten into Alex's head over the years to not take chances when in scoring range (FG), but I still agree that at this point, you just take the shot. Whether the coaches need to explain to Alex to take those shots or Alex just has to say screw it and do it... either way... take the shot. Even if you put the ball so far wide that Crabtree only has a slim shot at keeping his feet in.
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Pretty sure that was Antoine Winfield too... pretty crafty vet there.. but there is a spot where Alex could throw it that makes it tough but at least somewhat catchable for Crabtree...

Yeah, watched it in real time just now and man, it's just a split second where he might have had him while on the run but the defender was MUCH closer than the still pic insinuated. I would have gone for Gore myself for the 1st down right away; poor block by Gore subsequently.

Also, to me...did anyone watch Alex? I think that might have been a designed sprint out! There isn't one second where Alex is running full speed.
[ Edited by NCommand on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:53 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Pretty sure that was Antoine Winfield too... pretty crafty vet there.. but there is a spot where Alex could throw it that makes it tough but at least somewhat catchable for Crabtree...

Yeah, watched it in real time just now and man, it's just a split second where he might have had him while on the run but the defender was MUCH closer than the still pic insinuated. I would have gone for Gore myself for the 1st down right away; poor block by Gore subsequently.

Williams would have been a pretty good throw... Would have been just short of a TD unless Williams made a play. If Gore makes that block, though, whole different game.
[ Edited by mkmasn on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:51 PM ]
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Not necessarily. Watch the TD throw to Davis. Alex had a defender in his face and made a perfect throw. Someone that panics is going to throw up a prayer to a covered TE when Adrian Peterson is wide open.

I think it's a matter of Alex not wanting to give the defenders a chance to make a play and counting on Gore to make that block. It's not an easy throw, no matter how easy some QBs make it look.

I agree with the bolded. But down 17-3, we really needed that TD. No time to be conservative.

Maybe its not an easy throw, but its certainly not a difficult one. Should be routine for a first round draft pick in his 8th season in his second consecutive year in the same system with a WR he's played with four years. If he can't make that throw easily, maybe he really is limited and we shouldn't even call those plays.

I think it's just been beaten into Alex's head over the years to not take chances when in scoring range (FG), but I still agree that at this point, you just take the shot. Whether the coaches need to explain to Alex to take those shots or Alex just has to say screw it and do it... either way... take the shot. Even if you put the ball so far wide that Crabtree only has a slim shot at keeping his feet in.

The same could be said about any rookie or 2nd year QB, but it doesn't change them from natural instincts and trying to make a play, good or bad results.

I would just like to be in agreement that Alex needs to do some things better just as much as Staley needs to do things better. Other than that, I'm perfectly fine with how Alex plays just as long as he is at fault for our passing ranks nearly as much as anyone else, maybe more...well...unless you all feel that the QB is not the most important position on offense:

Originally posted by mkmasn:
Williams would have been a pretty good throw... Would have been just short of a TD unless Williams made a play. If Gore makes that block, though, whole different game.

Actually, looks like Williams would have made that TD. That LB was sliding away, the S was far enough back and was running as fast has he could, no way he makes a good direction change. The next LB is 5 yds away.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Not necessarily. Watch the TD throw to Davis. Alex had a defender in his face and made a perfect throw. Someone that panics is going to throw up a prayer to a covered TE when Adrian Peterson is wide open.

I think it's a matter of Alex not wanting to give the defenders a chance to make a play and counting on Gore to make that block. It's not an easy throw, no matter how easy some QBs make it look.

I agree with the bolded. But down 17-3, we really needed that TD. No time to be conservative.

Maybe its not an easy throw, but its certainly not a difficult one. Should be routine for a first round draft pick in his 8th season in his second consecutive year in the same system with a WR he's played with four years. If he can't make that throw easily, maybe he really is limited and we shouldn't even call those plays.

I think it's just been beaten into Alex's head over the years to not take chances when in scoring range (FG), but I still agree that at this point, you just take the shot. Whether the coaches need to explain to Alex to take those shots or Alex just has to say screw it and do it... either way... take the shot. Even if you put the ball so far wide that Crabtree only has a slim shot at keeping his feet in.

The same could be said about any rookie or 2nd year QB, but it doesn't change them from natural instincts and trying to make a play, good or bad results.

I would just like to be in agreement that Alex needs to do some things better just as much as Staley needs to do things better. Other than that, I'm perfectly fine with how Alex plays just as long as he is at fault for our passing ranks nearly as much as anyone else, maybe more...well...unless you all feel that the QB is not the most important position on offense:


Isn't that trying to make a play? Running for the TD? That's textbook trying to make a play. I don't think anyone will disagree Alex is just as at fault as the WR core. The disagreement is that the blame solely rests with him.
[ Edited by mkmasn on Sep 28, 2012 at 12:56 PM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Wide open and easy pass. What happened is he wanted Gore on the roll out. It was covered and Smith failed to make the next throw. This was a theme throughout this game. What is most disconcerning is these short passes are taken in agame we are losing badly.



re watching this play

whoever is on Gore would have an angle to pick the throw from Alex if it was a straight shot. would rather see Gore take his guy left to open the lane, there was a lot of garbage in the general vicinity....look at 35:36

Of course. But there is a clear pass to their rigth towards the sideline. It would take a little bit of touch but this is routine for an NFL QB. smith made this thro against the Lions to VD for a TD with a bloody nose. Exept in this case there are a lot of defenders around. Played it safe down 17-3.

Gore's defender isn't going to follow him back to the left AWAY from the roll out back into traffic.

If Gore turned to look at Alex and broke left he might've. If Crabs had drifted a little deeper toward the corner a floater would work.
Who has a link to the coaches film?