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NFC West....Should we be worried?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Game-planning on both offense and defense scare me. Last night I saw good game plans for Seattle's defense and then good adjustments on offense for GB. Essentially, after 8 sacks, GB started playing OUR game. Jumbo, max protection, power running, timely passing and clock-management...and it worked. So that said, we are BUILT to beat the Seahawks. The Cards, not so much...

We struggle against great 3-4 defenses that can disguise blitzes well and THAT is what the Cards are. They dictate offenses. They are MUCH more advanced than Fangio and I don't see Roman adjusting well in-game and at half times, generally. As to Seattle, they played exactly how I'd like our defense to play...but don't. They play VERY physical, tight up at the LOS and do not let a single WR/TE have a clean release. And b/c of the refs, they continue to be physical well beyond the 5 yards too (and get away with it). Us, we give ENORMOUS cushions and nothing but clean releases. We let a guy like Ponder deliver time and time again and gain confidence and make plays esp. on 3rd downs when we are playing off 10-15 yards with our CB's and 25 yards deep with our S's.

Fangio and Roman are hit and miss to me and I'm not seeing much, if any, in-game adjustments to adopt to the culture of the game like I do with smarter teams/coaching.

I watch every game multiple times, objectively and I'm wondering, is that just me?

We still have the most talent, top-to-bottom; just not sure if we're playing to our strengths or are making the proper adjustments.


The notion that we would win the NFC easily is gone. The Cards and Seattle both are playing monster defense. They can rush the passer extremely well, and we all know our pass protection is our weak point. There is the chance that either team can severely limit or even take away our passing game. We have shown we can't stretch defenses, with the exception of Vernon occasionally. Can you imagine what will happen if they compress their defenses to within 20 yds of the line of scrimmage. Short to intermediate passes gone. Safety in the box for fun support making it harder to run. Pressure from everywhere on obvious passing downs. Alex on his back often(see Aaron Rodgers last night). So, there has to be a fundamental change in our passing game for our season to flower. We absolutely have to have a real, respectable deep threat which decompresses, defenses opening up the run and short passing game. That means we have to call the plays, which we haven't. It means we have to have deep threats which we haven't besides Vernon occasionally. And it means Alex has to take more chances and not check down which he hasn't. And it means Alex has to be consistantly accurate on deep throws which he hasn't. Defenses have played us the same way for the last few years, and nothing has essentially changed. This is a fundamental major change that has to happen or I really don't think we will win the NFC West.
Originally posted by NCommand:
As to Seattle, they played exactly how I'd like our defense to play...but don't. They play VERY physical, tight up at the LOS and do not let a single WR/TE have a clean release. And b/c of the refs, they continue to be physical well beyond the 5 yards too (and get away with it).

I want this SO badly for our defense!!!!
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
As to Seattle, they played exactly how I'd like our defense to play...but don't. They play VERY physical, tight up at the LOS and do not let a single WR/TE have a clean release. And b/c of the refs, they continue to be physical well beyond the 5 yards too (and get away with it).

I want this SO badly for our defense!!!!

Tell me about it! And imagine what we could do OFF those sets...CB blitzes, S's rushing the passer, stuffing the run, etc. Culliver, Goldson and Whitner would have FIELD DAYS playing this game...as would all the LBers. We could really disrupt the timing of plays esp. those easy RB passing and TE's in the EZ. We did a great job of this against Detroit and then went right back to this two-hand-touch defense (after) the ball is easily caught. Sooooo frustrating!

But again, this is poor situational awareness by Fangio. Does he not SEE how physical these refs are letting defenders play now? It's like old 80's style defense! We play soft and STILL get a few horrible P.I. calls so you might as well play physical anyways.
Yes it is early, but yes we should be worried. Sure we've won this year, but so far we haven't seen any resemblance of a Bully that Harbaugh said the team is trying to build. Meh is the only way i can describe our play up to this point.
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
We still have the best coaching staff, offense, and defense in the division. This division will come down to who has the better offense and that's us. Cards and Hawks won't be able to run on us and will have to depend on Wilson and Kolb/Skelton to beat us which isn't going to happen.

I'm thinking we do not have the best D in the division thanks to Fang.. Most talent yes
What I hated about Nolan and Singletary was their inability to adapt when things weren't working. They kept sticking with it even though it failed.

Bill Walsh was the Master in innovation.

I hope JH & coaches go to all that secret film in the vaults we heard about and adapt to what we will be facing.

Really worried about pass protection against Cards & Hawks. Even w/ a deep threat Alex will have to have time.
Yes especially with our horrible loss to the Vikings. Cards and Seahawks have a much easier schedule then we do and they each have a defense as good as ours. If we dont take care of business against the teams we are supposed to beat we will be fighting for a WC spot
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
As to Seattle, they played exactly how I'd like our defense to play...but don't. They play VERY physical, tight up at the LOS and do not let a single WR/TE have a clean release. And b/c of the refs, they continue to be physical well beyond the 5 yards too (and get away with it).

I want this SO badly for our defense!!!!

Tell me about it! And imagine what we could do OFF those sets...CB blitzes, S's rushing the passer, stuffing the run, etc. Culliver, Goldson and Whitner would have FIELD DAYS playing this game...as would all the LBers. We could really disrupt the timing of plays esp. those easy RB passing and TE's in the EZ. We did a great job of this against Detroit and then went right back to this two-hand-touch defense (after) the ball is easily caught. Sooooo frustrating!

But again, this is poor situational awareness by Fangio. Does he not SEE how physical these refs are letting defenders play now? It's like old 80's style defense! We play soft and STILL get a few horrible P.I. calls so you might as well play physical anyways.

Yeah, I understand when playing a guy like Calvin you can't just play press and not have a S over the top (at least).. but playing off the way we do is teh suxxorz. We even do that sh*t when we are backed up in the redzone... why? how the f**k deep can the WRs really get on our CBs in that scenario?

Not gonna say much more till I watch the defensive plays again soon... but I do not feel we are using our pass rush to our advantage when we just allow QBs to chew us up with uncontested underneath routes all day.
Our O-line holding up in pass protection vs. the NFC West defenses is what worries me sick
Originally posted by barrymartin:
The notion that we would win the NFC easily is gone. The Cards and Seattle both are playing monster defense. They can rush the passer extremely well, and we all know our pass protection is our weak point. There is the chance that either team can severely limit or even take away our passing game. We have shown we can't stretch defenses, with the exception of Vernon occasionally. Can you imagine what will happen if they compress their defenses to within 20 yds of the line of scrimmage. Short to intermediate passes gone. Safety in the box for fun support making it harder to run. Pressure from everywhere on obvious passing downs. Alex on his back often(see Aaron Rodgers last night). So, there has to be a fundamental change in our passing game for our season to flower. We absolutely have to have a real, respectable deep threat which decompresses, defenses opening up the run and short passing game. That means we have to call the plays, which we haven't. It means we have to have deep threats which we haven't besides Vernon occasionally. And it means Alex has to take more chances and not check down which he hasn't. And it means Alex has to be consistantly accurate on deep throws which he hasn't. Defenses have played us the same way for the last few years, and nothing has essentially changed. This is a fundamental major change that has to happen or I really don't think we will win the NFC West.

This. I watched the coaches film of the Lions game (only way to really watch the passing game) and we didn't run a single deep ball. So you are right. No question. And the biggest issue I see is that we don't run a progression-read offense. We run a team-offense of designed plays. For instance, the play design dictates Alex's throw. The only control Alex seems to have is pre-snap reads to either roll with it or kill it (check from a pass to a run or from a run to a pass). When we run a jumbo package and they stack 10 in the box though, we have NO passing option out of that and we tend to get stuffed every time esp. in short yardage. Regarding our offense, one play highlighted our passing game very well...Alex takes a snap, throws instantly to the underneath, intermediate WR "while" the deeper WR to that side is already engaged in blocking for him. All 11 players play a roll in that play design. This means that nobody else is a viable receiving threat should that only-option receiver not be open. This forces Alex to either hit his initial guy (if open) or run for his life. This is also why we don't see too many ad-lib plays save for a couple.

In short, we are still installing the WCO in packages. We are not playing a traditional WCO yet where it is centered around pre-snap reads AND progression reads during a live play. We have to remember that we are just now installing year 2 of 3. We have a ways to go and we have many new receiving threats.

I just don't know when we will install the deeper packages as it's been 100% short-to-intermediate packages so far. Granted, most have been successful but right now, this is an all-or-nothing offense. If that only-read receiver is not open, Alex is running for his life! On a side note, we are terrible at ad-libing save for a couple big plays thanks to the young guys (Hunter/Miller).
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Game-planning on both offense and defense scare me. Last night I saw good game plans for Seattle's defense and then good adjustments on offense for GB. Essentially, after 8 sacks, GB started playing OUR game. Jumbo, max protection, power running, timely passing and clock-management...and it worked. So that said, we are BUILT to beat the Seahawks. The Cards, not so much...

We struggle against great 3-4 defenses that can disguise blitzes well and THAT is what the Cards are. They dictate offenses. They are MUCH more advanced than Fangio and I don't see Roman adjusting well in-game and at half times, generally. As to Seattle, they played exactly how I'd like our defense to play...but don't. They play VERY physical, tight up at the LOS and do not let a single WR/TE have a clean release. And b/c of the refs, they continue to be physical well beyond the 5 yards too (and get away with it). Us, we give ENORMOUS cushions and nothing but clean releases. We let a guy like Ponder deliver time and time again and gain confidence and make plays esp. on 3rd downs when we are playing off 10-15 yards with our CB's and 25 yards deep with our S's.

Fangio and Roman are hit and miss to me and I'm not seeing much, if any, in-game adjustments to adopt to the culture of the game like I do with smarter teams/coaching.

I watch every game multiple times, objectively and I'm wondering, is that just me?

We still have the most talent, top-to-bottom; just not sure if we're playing to our strengths or are making the proper adjustments.


The notion that we would win the NFC easily is gone. The Cards and Seattle both are playing monster defense. They can rush the passer extremely well, and we all know our pass protection is our weak point. There is the chance that either team can severely limit or even take away our passing game. We have shown we can't stretch defenses, with the exception of Vernon occasionally. Can you imagine what will happen if they compress their defenses to within 20 yds of the line of scrimmage. Short to intermediate passes gone. Safety in the box for fun support making it harder to run. Pressure from everywhere on obvious passing downs. Alex on his back often(see Aaron Rodgers last night). So, there has to be a fundamental change in our passing game for our season to flower. We absolutely have to have a real, respectable deep threat which decompresses, defenses opening up the run and short passing game. That means we have to call the plays, which we haven't. It means we have to have deep threats which we haven't besides Vernon occasionally. And it means Alex has to take more chances and not check down which he hasn't. And it means Alex has to be consistantly accurate on deep throws which he hasn't. Defenses have played us the same way for the last few years, and nothing has essentially changed. This is a fundamental major change that has to happen or I really don't think we will win the NFC West.

Need to get Moss involved vertically. Need him to take the "top" off the defense again
Lmao at all of you that are scared.
Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
Lmao at all of you that are scared.

This.
Originally posted by barrymartin:
The notion that we would win the NFC easily is gone. The Cards and Seattle both are playing monster defense. They can rush the passer extremely well, and we all know our pass protection is our weak point. There is the chance that either team can severely limit or even take away our passing game. We have shown we can't stretch defenses, with the exception of Vernon occasionally. Can you imagine what will happen if they compress their defenses to within 20 yds of the line of scrimmage. Short to intermediate passes gone. Safety in the box for fun support making it harder to run. Pressure from everywhere on obvious passing downs. Alex on his back often(see Aaron Rodgers last night). So, there has to be a fundamental change in our passing game for our season to flower. We absolutely have to have a real, respectable deep threat which decompresses, defenses opening up the run and short passing game. That means we have to call the plays, which we haven't. It means we have to have deep threats which we haven't besides Vernon occasionally. And it means Alex has to take more chances and not check down which he hasn't. And it means Alex has to be consistantly accurate on deep throws which he hasn't. Defenses have played us the same way for the last few years, and nothing has essentially changed. This is a fundamental major change that has to happen or I really don't think we will win the NFC West.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Yeah, I understand when playing a guy like Calvin you can't just play press and not have a S over the top (at least).. but playing off the way we do is teh suxxorz. We even do that sh*t when we are backed up in the redzone... why? how the f**k deep can the WRs really get on our CBs in that scenario?

Not gonna say much more till I watch the defensive plays again soon... but I do not feel we are using our pass rush to our advantage when we just allow QBs to chew us up with uncontested underneath routes all day.

Heck, we were chucking him AND covering him with LBers (both inside and outside) too.

Glad I'm not the only one VERY frustrated with this...
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