49ers Wide Receiver Assessment

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
List of value as a receiver at this point:

1. Moss
2. Crabtree
3. Manningham
4. Williams
5. Jenkins
6. Ginn

Ginn will make it for STs, Manningham may jump up when he becomes comfortable and Jenkins may develop throughout the year but this is much better than last year's list!

this is spot on, good job. The guy with the soft head may make practice squad. after the good things he has shown in practice and as a coach and mentor to the kids,, i still do not understand the lack of respect for moss from some quarters

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
It's hard to tell regarding number on the active game day roster, but I believe if one sits it will be either Jenkins or Williams. If a player has a minor injury then they will have the ability to sit and recover without a huge downside as there was last year. It takes a while to learn the WCO and I see Jenkins sitting for the first few games and then becoming better and better as the year progresses. Don't know who he knocks off the game day roster when he develops but probably Williams. What a pleasant problem to have!

Jenkins is a smart kid. I have no doubt that he'll do what he needs to get on the same page with his QB. Again, our 1st rounder won't be 2, 3, 4, or 4th on the depth chart. I can't believe how many have Jenkins barely making the 46. It's amazing to me how many think that we draft projects in the 1st round. If he's good enough to to be drafted in the 1st then sitting him for a few games won't make that much of a difference. He's a WR, not a QB. Plus, that's what pre-season is for. He's gonna get a lot of work in pre-season games and it'll be against a lot of starters. And if he shows even some of what he showed at Illinois then he'll be no worse than #2 on the depth chart. 1st rounders are not projects. They are expected to come in and compete for a starting role. Frankly, I suspect that many who have A. J. 4th, 5th, or 6th on the depth chart are some of the very ones declaring we needed a TE in the 1st and castigating fans like myself who predicted a WR in the 1st. But thats just me.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
then he'll be no worse than #2 on the depth chart.

Respectfully disagree. There's not much chance... not in our SB run this year.. that our coaches would trust this LATE first rd selection over vets like Moss, Crabtree, and Manningham.

It just doesn't make sense, and I'd be shocked if Jim wants to overlook the vets we have just to get the rookie lots of snaps.

( just an opinion, so please don't get all ruffled over the disagreement )

Originally posted by SmileyJetson:

From what I see the current depth chart is as follows
1. Crabtree - proven the most as a Niner
2. Moss - easily can be our #1 if keeps it up
3. Manningham - solid but not spectacular
4. Williams - expect him to lose ground in preseason
5. Jenkins - learning process but should improve fast
6. Ginn - simply not a WR, but elite STer
7. Hastings/Swain/Palmer/Owusu

I agree, with Palmer and owusu making PS. I think Williams makes the team, and Jenkins may not even be active on game day. But it's early and Jenkins could improve during preseason.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
then he'll be no worse than #2 on the depth chart.

Respectfully disagree. There's not much chance... not in our SB run this year.. that our coaches would trust this LATE first rd selection over vets like Moss, Crabtree, and Manningham.

It just doesn't make sense, and I'd be shocked if Jim wants to overlook the vets we have just to get the rookie lots of snaps.

( just an opinion, so please don't get all ruffled over the disagreement )

Agree and hope we're right or these vets will be very disappointing! I can see Jenkins used situationally just as Aldon was last year, but on fewer plays. If he really lights it up then perhaps he can work his way up the depth chart. Moss and Crabtree were first round draft picks and Manningham was a third...nothing says a new first round pick jumps ahead of the pack.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
then he'll be no worse than #2 on the depth chart.

Respectfully disagree. There's not much chance... not in our SB run this year.. that our coaches would trust this LATE first rd selection over vets like Moss, Crabtree, and Manningham.

It just doesn't make sense, and I'd be shocked if Jim wants to overlook the vets we have just to get the rookie lots of snaps.

( just an opinion, so please don't get all ruffled over the disagreement )

Agree and hope we're right or these vets will be very disappointing! I can see Jenkins used situationally just as Aldon was last year, but on fewer plays. If he really lights it up then perhaps he can work his way up the depth chart. Moss and Crabtree were first round draft picks and Manningham was a third...nothing says a new first round pick jumps ahead of the pack.

Well, I guess there's a new day in the NFL. Teams are now drafting situational projects in the 1st round. Seriously, although we needed better pass-rushing there wasn't a need for Aldon to start with Haralson in front of him. The 49ers could afford to develop him for a year before starting him full time. That's not the case with our WR position, notwithstanding the new WR additions. Time and time again the WR play put this team in bad situations forcing the coaching staff to be extra ordinarily creative with play design and scheme to hide the WR deficiencies . And as it now stands the additions of Moss and Manningham hasn't changed that. If this coaching staff didn't intend on A. J. competing for a starting job, if they didn't intend on him being a major factor in the offense, then JH and Baalke wouldn't not have drafted a WR in the 1st.

I know some here would rather over emphasize the fact that he was a late 1st rounder but like it or not 1st rounders, late or early, are selected 1st for a reason. There's a reason 1st rounders get better contracts that other rounds. These guys are not draft 1st to merely provide depth. They are drafted 1st because they are expected to come in and start no later than year two, but hopefully year 1. For the most part, no free agent (in this case Moss and Manninham) will come in and get more reps than the guy drafted 1st. Generally, coaching staffs afford the guy drafted 1st every opportunity to show why they drafted him 1st. That's a fact of NFL life than has to be considered. Mark my words, when the pads are on with live bullets, Crabs and A. J. will get the lions share of the WR reps. The battle will be for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th WR spots, and A. J. won't be among that battle.

I really do feel, and I say this in all honesty, that many fans here really need A. J. to struggle because they never wanted, or felt we needed, a WR in the 1st in the first place. Now I'm not looking for people to agree with me. In fact, I never thought most here would on this issue. But we have to think objectively about this and not get enamored in names and OTA un-padded performances and understand, while we are assessing the WR position, that it is no small matter that we drafted a WR 1st. That's all I'm saying.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Well, I guess there's a new day in the NFL. Teams are now drafting situational projects in the 1st round. Seriously, although we needed better pass-rushing there wasn't a need for Aldon to start with Haralson in front of him. The 49ers could afford to develop him for a year before starting him full time. That's not the case with our WR position, notwithstanding the new WR additions. Time and time again the WR play put this team in bad situations forcing the coaching staff to be extra ordinarily creative with play design and scheme to hide the WR deficiencies . And as it now stands the additions of Moss and Manningham hasn't changed that. If this coaching staff didn't intend on A. J. competing for a starting job, if they didn't intend on him being a major factor in the offense, then JH and Baalke wouldn't not have drafted a WR in the 1st.

I know some here would rather over emphasize the fact that he was a late 1st rounder but like it or not 1st rounders, late or early, are selected 1st for a reason. There's a reason 1st rounders get better contracts that other rounds. These guys are not draft 1st to merely provide depth. They are drafted 1st because they are expected to come in and start no later than year two, but hopefully year 1. For the most part, no free agent (in this case Moss and Manninham) will come in and get more reps than the guy drafted 1st. Generally, coaching staffs afford the guy drafted 1st every opportunity to show why they drafted him 1st. That's a fact of NFL life than has to be considered. Mark my words, when the pads are on with live bullets, Crabs and A. J. will get the lions share of the WR reps. The battle will be for the 3rd, 4th, and 5th WR spots, and A. J. won't be among that battle.

I really do feel, and I say this in all honesty, that many fans here really need A. J. to struggle because they never wanted, or felt we needed, a WR in the 1st in the first place. Now I'm not looking for people to agree with me. In fact, I never thought most here would on this issue. But we have to think objectively about this and not get enamored in names and OTA un-padded performances and understand, while we are assessing the WR position, that it is no small matter that we drafted a WR 1st. That's all I'm saying.

Pass rush was the number one need for the niners defense last year so Aldon was not a luxury as you suggest. He proved his worth--situationally. Jenkins may or may not be a starter some time this year. Who knows? What he will be is competition for Moss, Crabtree, Manningham and Williams. Those four guys have a huge advantage over him being veterans and two of them played in the system last year--another advantage. If Moss plays up to his vast potential he will be the top target, which was already discussed during OTAs.

The better the team the less likely the 30th pick in the draft will be a starter. On Harbaugh's version of the WCO a rookie has a lot to learn before stepping into a starting position...which is likely why Boone is slated to start at RG over the rookies.

You seem to have a thing about first rounders needing to start or they are...what?...busts? Green started last year and looked really good--the 15th in yards from scrimmage. He was by far the best receiver to come out in years. Julio Jones did well as well and was also drafted at the top of the first round. If you want to compare Jenkins to a WR drafted near his spot you could use Baldwin who was the 108th ranked WR in yards last year, 21 catches. He was drafted ahead of Jenkins spot.

As to why you feel we are justifying some problem with the pick...you are flat wrong. I wanted them to take a RG in the first but when the top guys were all gone I then wanted Fleener. But my expertise in draft matters is a couple light years short of Baalke and Harbaugh...so there is no hidden agenda with me. I just think Moss, Manningham and Crabtree are more likely to start than you do.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
List of value as a receiver at this point:

1. Moss
2. Crabtree
3. Manningham
4. Williams
5. Jenkins
6. Ginn

Ginn will make it for STs, Manningham may jump up when he becomes comfortable and Jenkins may develop throughout the year but this is much better than last year's list!

this is spot on, good job. The guy with the soft head may make practice squad. after the good things he has shown in practice and as a coach and mentor to the kids,, i still do not understand the lack of respect for moss from some quarters

I think the 3 and 4 spots are up for contention.

Williams is ahead of Manningham on the depth charts, according to reporters.

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Williams is ahead of Manningham on the depth charts, according to reporters.

but that does not mean that manningham has been terrible, reports say he has done well,, its just kyle has added some muscle and was outstanding so far. if the season started now and those are our top four guys, that would be fine with me.. much better than last year

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
List of value as a receiver at this point:

1. Moss
2. Crabtree
3. Manningham
4. Williams
5. Jenkins
6. Ginn

Ginn will make it for STs, Manningham may jump up when he becomes comfortable and Jenkins may develop throughout the year but this is much better than last year's list!

No question Moss is #1 thus far. That said, the purpose of having him AND Manningham is to have at least one deep "threat" at WR at all times. Nobody feared Ginn last year but they certainly respected his speed and we saw with him out, how easy it was to lock down Crabtree. Moss also can add WAY more than just deep speed and he seems poised, focused and humble to be the every down #1 WR who can run all the routes and be that veteran WR this team needs (esp. for a guy like Crabtree). That said, I see both Moss and Manningham sharing the same spot throughout the year as well to keep both fresh and add wrinkles for the DC. When three WR's are on the field, it will be Moss and Manningham outside with Crabtree in the slot. Crabtree is absolutely dynamic underneath when he has two speedsters posing deep threats and clearing out traffic...this formation will also open up for Hunter/James in the flats and Gore for inside runs. We'll see a healthy dose of a variety of these personnel packages which naturally, will include VD and Kyle Williams/Jenkins & Ted Ginn.

Originally posted by NCommand:
No question Moss is #1 thus far. That said, the purpose of having him AND Manningham is to have at least one deep "threat" at WR at all times. Nobody feared Ginn last year but they certainly respected his speed and we saw with him out, how easy it was to lock down Crabtree. Moss also can add WAY more than just deep speed and he seems poised, focused and humble to be the every down #1 WR who can run all the routes and be that veteran WR this team needs (esp. for a guy like Crabtree). That said, I see both Moss and Manningham sharing the same spot throughout the year as well to keep both fresh and add wrinkles for the DC. When three WR's are on the field, it will be Moss and Manningham outside with Crabtree in the slot. Crabtree is absolutely dynamic underneath when he has two speedsters posing deep threats and clearing out traffic...this formation will also open up for Hunter/James in the flats and Gore for inside runs. We'll see a healthy dose of a variety of these personnel packages which naturally, will include VD and Kyle Williams/Jenkins & Ted Ginn.

Is it August yet!!!?

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No question Moss is #1 thus far. That said, the purpose of having him AND Manningham is to have at least one deep "threat" at WR at all times. Nobody feared Ginn last year but they certainly respected his speed and we saw with him out, how easy it was to lock down Crabtree. Moss also can add WAY more than just deep speed and he seems poised, focused and humble to be the every down #1 WR who can run all the routes and be that veteran WR this team needs (esp. for a guy like Crabtree). That said, I see both Moss and Manningham sharing the same spot throughout the year as well to keep both fresh and add wrinkles for the DC. When three WR's are on the field, it will be Moss and Manningham outside with Crabtree in the slot. Crabtree is absolutely dynamic underneath when he has two speedsters posing deep threats and clearing out traffic...this formation will also open up for Hunter/James in the flats and Gore for inside runs. We'll see a healthy dose of a variety of these personnel packages which naturally, will include VD and Kyle Williams/Jenkins & Ted Ginn.

Is it August yet!!!?

Seriously!!! SERIOUSLY!!!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No question Moss is #1 thus far. That said, the purpose of having him AND Manningham is to have at least one deep "threat" at WR at all times. Nobody feared Ginn last year but they certainly respected his speed and we saw with him out, how easy it was to lock down Crabtree. Moss also can add WAY more than just deep speed and he seems poised, focused and humble to be the every down #1 WR who can run all the routes and be that veteran WR this team needs (esp. for a guy like Crabtree). That said, I see both Moss and Manningham sharing the same spot throughout the year as well to keep both fresh and add wrinkles for the DC. When three WR's are on the field, it will be Moss and Manningham outside with Crabtree in the slot. Crabtree is absolutely dynamic underneath when he has two speedsters posing deep threats and clearing out traffic...this formation will also open up for Hunter/James in the flats and Gore for inside runs. We'll see a healthy dose of a variety of these personnel packages which naturally, will include VD and Kyle Williams/Jenkins & Ted Ginn.

Is it August yet!!!?

Seriously!!! SERIOUSLY!!!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Pass rush was the number one need for the niners defense last year so Aldon was not a luxury as you suggest. He proved his worth--situationally. Jenkins may or may not be a starter some time this year. Who knows? What he will be is competition for Moss, Crabtree, Manningham and Williams. Those four guys have a huge advantage over him being veterans and two of them played in the system last year--another advantage. If Moss plays up to his vast potential he will be the top target, which was already discussed during OTAs.

The better the team the less likely the 30th pick in the draft will be a starter. On Harbaugh's version of the WCO a rookie has a lot to learn before stepping into a starting position...which is likely why Boone is slated to start at RG over the rookies.

You seem to have a thing about first rounders needing to start or they are...what?...busts? Green started last year and looked really good--the 15th in yards from scrimmage. He was by far the best receiver to come out in years. Julio Jones did well as well and was also drafted at the top of the first round. If you want to compare Jenkins to a WR drafted near his spot you could use Baldwin who was the 108th ranked WR in yards last year, 21 catches. He was drafted ahead of Jenkins spot.

As to why you feel we are justifying some problem with the pick...you are flat wrong. I wanted them to take a RG in the first but when the top guys were all gone I then wanted Fleener. But my expertise in draft matters is a couple light years short of Baalke and Harbaugh...so there is no hidden agenda with me. I just think Moss, Manningham and Crabtree are more likely to start than you do.

I never stated or suggested that Aldon was a luxury. That's how you read it. I was just stating how the circumstance was/is different therefore calls for a different approach and expectations. Fine, we disagree. The only person I think has an advantage over A.J. is Crabs. The guy went 30th overall to a team in dire need of a WR. I highly doubt JH isn't gonna put the kid in competition for the #3, 4, or 5 stop.