Bold Predictions - 1.0

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Now that Staley was voted on by his peers as the 67th best player in the league going into the 2012 season his trade value will never be higher . . .

Why are people always wanting to trade a player for a draft pick? Is the draft more important than seeing the niners win another SB?

While the line is not perfect. People think playing musical chairs will make it better? Take Davis put him there for Staley a pro bowler and a player respected by his peers, install an unproven Boone where Davis was, add in unproven Kilgore or Looney for Snyder. Leave Iuapati and whats his name where they are and the QBs will be protected like the gold at Ft Knox.
Well, I guess its a good way to get rid of and see Alex replaced

We keep talking about building depth and competition, but people here keep wanting to trade starters to get draft pick because they think an unproven player(s) will do better than those who make the pro bowl. I thought we got rid of Nolan and Singletary and Scotty? Guess they are trolling on the zone now.

I agree. I was being sarcastic. I think the idea of getting rid of Staley to make room for Boone is crazy.

Originally posted by endcapitalism:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Ok, now the draft is long over and we got a peek at the rookies I have a few predictions:

- Cam Johnson will be groomed to be Justin Smiths heir apparent, barring injury

The later is my boldest thus far. He will be a project but this kid, with his abilities, has perhaps the highest ceiling of all our picks. Justin can play at least another 2 full seasons at a high level, so that gives our coaching staff time to develop him. Also, he has 3-4 DE measurables - 6'3", 268, with room to gain about 7 or 8 pounds. I don't see us keeping more than 7 D-lineman on the gameday roster so this puts Dobbs and Tukuafu in completion with Cam. One l thing's for sure is that this 49er camp and pre-season will be the most competitive in years. It's been a long time since I've seen this much talent up and down the roster. Hats off to Baalke and JH. There won't be many changes in the starting line-up. But I think there's gonna be major changes in the sub-starter depth chart.

Smith and Johnson do not play the same position. Smith at 285 is small for a 3-4 DE.

Go tell that to J. Smith

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Now that Staley was voted on by his peers as the 67th best player in the league going into the 2012 season his trade value will never be higher . . .

Why are people always wanting to trade a player for a draft pick? Is the draft more important than seeing the niners win another SB?

While the line is not perfect. People think playing musical chairs will make it better? Take Davis put him there for Staley a pro bowler and a player respected by his peers, install an unproven Boone where Davis was, add in unproven Kilgore or Looney for Snyder. Leave Iuapati and whats his name where they are and the QBs will be protected like the gold at Ft Knox.
Well, I guess its a good way to get rid of and see Alex replaced

We keep talking about building depth and competition, but people here keep wanting to trade starters to get draft pick because they think an unproven player(s) will do better than those who make the pro bowl. I thought we got rid of Nolan and Singletary and Scotty? Guess they are trolling on the zone now.

Getting rid of Staley for anyone is just plain foolish. Nolan, Sing-Sing, and Scotty aren't here for a reason.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Getting rid of Staley for anyone is just plain foolish. Nolan, Sing-Sing, and Scotty aren't here for a reason.

I don't think anyone suggested trading Staley for Nolan, Sing-Sing or Scotty...

Originally posted by NinerGod:
LaMichael James will win Offensive Rookie of the Year.

We will have a boatload of injuries on both offense and defense that will literally cripple the team and result in a losing season.

There is no way James will win Offensive Rookie of the Year if we stink.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Can someone point to me a scrap of evidence that Brooks is better than Lawson, that Brown is better then Spencer, that Whitner is better than Williams, that Bowman is better than TKO, that Sopoaga is better than Franklin, that Smith is better than Haralson, that McDonald is better than...oh wait, never mind!

Potential sometimes just needs a chance and an opportunity to grow. It's called development. And Boone has been developing for years!

None of the guys you mentioned supplanted a pro bowler. All of those guys are much younger than the guys they replaced. Your examples to back up your point are terrible. Whitner has been a solid pro for years. Spencer got old and injured. Lawson sucked dick.

-definitely see a variety of more formations especially from shotgun to take advantage of the skill set of some of the new players (moss, manningham, jenkins, lamichael)
-crabtree will work more out of the slot, which he's better suited
-boone will remain our swing tackle and kilgore will be RG
-crabtree will get his first 1000 receiving yards season
-josh johnson beats out scott tolzien for the 3rd QB spot
-kyle williams makes the team but is relieved of KR and PR duties

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Can someone point to me a scrap of evidence that Brooks is better than Lawson, that Brown is better then Spencer, that Whitner is better than Williams, that Bowman is better than TKO, that Sopoaga is better than Franklin, that Smith is better than Haralson, that McDonald is better than...oh wait, never mind!

Potential sometimes just needs a chance and an opportunity to grow. It's called development. And Boone has been developing for years!

None of the guys you mentioned supplanted a pro bowler. All of those guys are much younger than the guys they replaced. Your examples to back up your point are terrible. Whitner has been a solid pro for years. Spencer got old and injured. Lawson sucked dick.

You two are completely missing the point but that's OK.

Originally posted by NCommand:
You two are completely missing the point but that's OK.

You are missing my original point, which is if you have a pro bowl LT,you hang onto him. That is football 101.

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NCommand:
You two are completely missing the point but that's OK.

You are missing my original point, which is if you have a pro bowl LT,you hang onto him. That is football 101.

If you go outside the popularity contest (and Staley is very popular) and watch his play objectively, you might be surprised. He certainly did NOT play at a pro bowl level. His inability to seal off DE's and win 1x1 battles at the LOS in the run game are going to be critical to the success of Gore, Hunter & James ability to run off tackle (something we have rarely been able to do during Staley's tenure here). Nobody is better at down field blocking though. Perhaps with his third year with Iupati and an added focus on these two critical areas in the run game, he will get better so that our weapons can be used. If you go to Football Outsiders or other like-sites, you'll see (they analyze every snap) the same things I just said here by doing my own analysis. Look beyond the popularity contest, do your own analysis and you'll find that Staley is not half as good as you think...he also fell off some las year and gave up quite a few sacks, pressures and QB hits. Unless all of the LT's in the game have significantly decreased in production, no way Staley is a pro bowler or 69 on a list of 100 voted on by the players. Again, this is an OL that gave up 44 sacks and the most QB pressures under 3 seconds. Staley was right...they didn't suck...but they weren't good either. Hopefully, with the offseason, they will be better. If not, all these new offensive toys will be for not. And as to my original point, I never said Boone should start over Staley. But he SHOULD be given a legit chance to earn that spot after developing for years. He's more ideal as a tackle IMHO. As to my other point, until guys such as Brooks, Sopoaga, Brown, Bowman, etc. are ALLOWED a chance to start, we may never see their production and upside. Last year is a perfect example of developed talent that just needed a chance on the field to grow and mature. Boone could very well fall into that category as well. But we may never know if this is a popularity contest.

Originally posted by NCommand:
If you go outside the popularity contest (and Staley is very popular) and watch his play objectively, you might be surprised. He certainly did NOT play at a pro bowl level. His inability to seal off DE's and win 1x1 battles at the LOS in the run game are going to be critical to the success of Gore, Hunter & James ability to run off tackle (something we have rarely been able to do during Staley's tenure here). Nobody is better at down field blocking though. Perhaps with his third year with Iupati and an added focus on these two critical areas in the run game, he will get better so that our weapons can be used. If you go to Football Outsiders or other like-sites, you'll see (they analyze every snap) the same things I just said here by doing my own analysis. Look beyond the popularity contest, do your own analysis and you'll find that Staley is not half as good as you think...he also fell off some las year and gave up quite a few sacks, pressures and QB hits. Unless all of the LT's in the game have significantly decreased in production, no way Staley is a pro bowler or 69 on a list of 100 voted on by the players. Again, this is an OL that gave up 44 sacks and the most QB pressures under 3 seconds. Staley was right...they didn't suck...but they weren't good either. Hopefully, with the offseason, they will be better. If not, all these new offensive toys will be for not. And as to my original point, I never said Boone should start over Staley. But he SHOULD be given a legit chance to earn that spot after developing for years. He's more ideal as a tackle IMHO. As to my other point, until guys such as Brooks, Sopoaga, Brown, Bowman, etc. are ALLOWED a chance to start, we may never see their production and upside. Last year is a perfect example of developed talent that just needed a chance on the field to grow and mature. Boone could very well fall into that category as well. But we may never know if this is a popularity contest.

Football outsiders stats regularly prove themselves to be completely out of touch with reality. They had an entire article stating Chilo Rachal as the most effective RG in the NFL in 2010

@the bolded; Based on? Height? Give me a break, we have hardly even seen the guy line up at tackle. He came in primarily as an extra tight end off the line of scrimmage last year. You have no clue how Boone would hold up against the NFL's best pass rushers one on one.

So I guess your "objective analysis" is more accurate than the players playing against him, the coaches coaching against him and the rest of the NFL fans. Thats cool man, I wholeheartedly disagree.

Originally posted by DirtyP:
Football outsiders stats regularly prove themselves to be completely out of touch with reality. They had an entire article stating Chilo Rachal as the most effective RG in the NFL in 2010

@the bolded; Based on? Height? Give me a break, we have hardly even seen the guy line up at tackle. He came in primarily as an extra tight end off the line of scrimmage last year. You have no clue how Boone would hold up against the NFL's best pass rushers one on one.

So I guess your "objective analysis" is more accurate than the players playing against him, the coaches coaching against him and the rest of the NFL fans. Thats cool man, I wholeheartedly disagree.

Ppl get so butt-hurt over player analysis by fans. Essentially, you are basing your opinion off a pro bowl vote and player popularity contests. How many of the players actually PLAY against Staley? They are familiar with his name. It's like us voting for a player b/c we actually recognize his name. Is that the case here? Who really knows. On the other hand, I'm actually basing my BOLD opinion after watching Staley very closely last year (and previous years). B/c FO had a similar analysis doesn't discredit the point. FO also had Manny Lawson as one of the best pass rushers in the league at one point too...based on their formula and a VERY small sample size compared to the FT starting OLB's. That said, since you are hell bent at defending Staley on votes and minimizing the long-term potential of Boone, what is your basis? And to your point, you're right in that we DO have a small sample size of Boone at LT last year when he filled in for Staley. But he did very well and seemed stronger at the point of attack. If you watch tape of Staley & Iupati, what you'll see if Iupati shove his man back and then slide over to help Staley inside. A previous poster noted this as well b/c with Staley getting pushed back and needing additional attention, it has the potential to leave gaps inside next to Goodwin. I've already mentioned the short yardage and inability to run off tackle to the left. Would you deny that too? So do your own objective analysis and then come back to me. Tell me what you think he does consistently well, areas he needs to work on, tendencies, etc. We had more detailed discussions of him and the entire OL all last year if you'd like to research and refute.

Boone? Well, his mentor and trainer boldly stated that he is a much better fit for T. That's also a position he's been grooming into for years now. His build and natural athleticism makes him a better fit...much wider stance, height is better suited for taking on DE's pass rushing, experience there, etc. It's just my BOLD opinion but you get the point.

Again, nobody is stating Staley is a terrible player or that Boone should be starting over him...but if Harbaugh/Roman are true to their word, perhaps a true competition with Staley would push Staley's focus and security at the very least. Boone has earned that chance IMHO.

But until you show up with some analysis of your own, enjoy the popularity contest and the Joe Show.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Ppl get so butt-hurt over player analysis by fans. Essentially, you are basing your opinion off a pro bowl vote and player popularity contests. How many of the players actually PLAY against Staley? They are familiar with his name. It's like us voting for a player b/c we actually recognize his name. Is that the case here? Who really knows. On the other hand, I'm actually basing my BOLD opinion after watching Staley very closely last year (and previous years). B/c FO had a similar analysis doesn't discredit the point. FO also had Manny Lawson as one of the best pass rushers in the league at one point too...based on their formula and a VERY small sample size compared to the FT starting OLB's. That said, since you are hell bent at defending Staley on votes and minimizing the long-term potential of Boone, what is your basis? And to your point, you're right in that we DO have a small sample size of Boone at LT last year when he filled in for Staley. But he did very well and seemed stronger at the point of attack. If you watch tape of Staley & Iupati, what you'll see if Iupati shove his man back and then slide over to help Staley inside. A previous poster noted this as well b/c with Staley getting pushed back and needing additional attention, it has the potential to leave gaps inside next to Goodwin. I've already mentioned the short yardage and inability to run off tackle to the left. Would you deny that too? So do your own objective analysis and then come back to me. Tell me what you think he does consistently well, areas he needs to work on, tendencies, etc. We had more detailed discussions of him and the entire OL all last year if you'd like to research and refute.

Boone? Well, his mentor and trainer boldly stated that he is a much better fit for T. That's also a position he's been grooming into for years now. His build and natural athleticism makes him a better fit...much wider stance, height is better suited for taking on DE's pass rushing, experience there, etc. It's just my BOLD opinion but you get the point.

Again, nobody is stating Staley is a terrible player or that Boone should be starting over him...but if Harbaugh/Roman are true to their word, perhaps a true competition with Staley would push Staley's focus and security at the very least. Boone has earned that chance IMHO.

But until you show up with some analysis of your own, enjoy the popularity contest and the Joe Show.

First of all, just because I don't have time to waste writing a 400 word breakdown of why I think Staley is a better LT than Boone doesn't mean I am purely basing it on what I hear. You are projecting that reason to make yourself feel secure in your own analysis. Good for you. I still don't agree. I watch every game, I have NFL rewind, I have watch the coaches view of every play from every win from 2011 just like you most likely have.

I will break down my logic

A pro bowl birth, as asinine as it may be, and player recognition as one of the better Tackles in the league>>> Football Outsiders>>>NCommand's analysis

Staley is a good LT, you don't mess with that. Also, they have already switched Boone from Tackle to Guard, opting not to move Anthony Davis, an inferior tackle to Staley, to Guard so that Boone can play his natural position at tackle. If Boone was really that good he would probably be on the trade block by now.

Originally posted by NCommand:
If you go outside the popularity contest (and Staley is very popular) and watch his play objectively, you might be surprised. He certainly did NOT play at a pro bowl level. His inability to seal off DE's and win 1x1 battles at the LOS in the run game are going to be critical to the success of Gore, Hunter & James ability to run off tackle (something we have rarely been able to do during Staley's tenure here). Nobody is better at down field blocking though. Perhaps with his third year with Iupati and an added focus on these two critical areas in the run game, he will get better so that our weapons can be used. If you go to Football Outsiders or other like-sites, you'll see (they analyze every snap) the same things I just said here by doing my own analysis. Look beyond the popularity contest, do your own analysis and you'll find that Staley is not half as good as you think...he also fell off some las year and gave up quite a few sacks, pressures and QB hits. Unless all of the LT's in the game have significantly decreased in production, no way Staley is a pro bowler or 69 on a list of 100 voted on by the players. Again, this is an OL that gave up 44 sacks and the most QB pressures under 3 seconds. Staley was right...they didn't suck...but they weren't good either. Hopefully, with the offseason, they will be better. If not, all these new offensive toys will be for not. And as to my original point, I never said Boone should start over Staley. But he SHOULD be given a legit chance to earn that spot after developing for years. He's more ideal as a tackle IMHO. As to my other point, until guys such as Brooks, Sopoaga, Brown, Bowman, etc. are ALLOWED a chance to start, we may never see their production and upside. Last year is a perfect example of developed talent that just needed a chance on the field to grow and mature. Boone could very well fall into that category as well. But we may never know if this is a popularity contest.

Then how in the world did Staley ever make it to the probowl? They just don't give those away. How on God's green earth did our 9ers even get to the playoffs with such an O-line?

Originally posted by DirtyP:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Ppl get so butt-hurt over player analysis by fans. Essentially, you are basing your opinion off a pro bowl vote and player popularity contests. How many of the players actually PLAY against Staley? They are familiar with his name. It's like us voting for a player b/c we actually recognize his name. Is that the case here? Who really knows. On the other hand, I'm actually basing my BOLD opinion after watching Staley very closely last year (and previous years). B/c FO had a similar analysis doesn't discredit the point. FO also had Manny Lawson as one of the best pass rushers in the league at one point too...based on their formula and a VERY small sample size compared to the FT starting OLB's. That said, since you are hell bent at defending Staley on votes and minimizing the long-term potential of Boone, what is your basis? And to your point, you're right in that we DO have a small sample size of Boone at LT last year when he filled in for Staley. But he did very well and seemed stronger at the point of attack. If you watch tape of Staley & Iupati, what you'll see if Iupati shove his man back and then slide over to help Staley inside. A previous poster noted this as well b/c with Staley getting pushed back and needing additional attention, it has the potential to leave gaps inside next to Goodwin. I've already mentioned the short yardage and inability to run off tackle to the left. Would you deny that too? So do your own objective analysis and then come back to me. Tell me what you think he does consistently well, areas he needs to work on, tendencies, etc. We had more detailed discussions of him and the entire OL all last year if you'd like to research and refute.

Boone? Well, his mentor and trainer boldly stated that he is a much better fit for T. That's also a position he's been grooming into for years now. His build and natural athleticism makes him a better fit...much wider stance, height is better suited for taking on DE's pass rushing, experience there, etc. It's just my BOLD opinion but you get the point.

Again, nobody is stating Staley is a terrible player or that Boone should be starting over him...but if Harbaugh/Roman are true to their word, perhaps a true competition with Staley would push Staley's focus and security at the very least. Boone has earned that chance IMHO.

But until you show up with some analysis of your own, enjoy the popularity contest and the Joe Show.

First of all, just because I don't have time to waste writing a 400 word breakdown of why I think Staley is a better LT than Boone doesn't mean I am purely basing it on what I hear. You are projecting that reason to make yourself feel secure in your own analysis. Good for you. I still don't agree. I watch every game, I have NFL rewind, I have watch the coaches view of every play from every win from 2011 just like you most likely have.

I will break down my logic

A pro bowl birth, as asinine as it may be, and player recognition as one of the better Tackles in the league>>> Football Outsiders>>>NCommand's analysis

Staley is a good LT, you don't mess with that. Also, they have already switched Boone from Tackle to Guard, opting not to move Anthony Davis, an inferior tackle to Staley, to Guard so that Boone can play his natural position at tackle. If Boone was really that good he would probably be on the trade block by now.

Seriously NC, you are arm-chair GM'ing here and doing a poor job. You lose more by trading Staley than by keeping him.

You are basing your Boone-love off of potential and a very small sample size. That's it. And I'm sure if Boone was in the same league as Staley, Harbaugh would consider replacing Staley via an open competition with Boone.

But since the dudes who get paid to make these decisions love Staley, have him signed through 2017, and are content to use Boone as a guard and backup tackle, well then that makes a ton of sense in my opinion.

This isn't a popularity contest. It's an opinion based on logic. Hell, you do remember when Boone came in the league he was overweight and completely undisciplined, right? Yeah, he's been developing, but to think he's suddenly ready to replace Joe Staley is kind of a stretch.

If you admit it's a stretch, I think DirtyP and I would agree with you on that. But you're trying to convince us that the coaching staff is keeping a better player on the bench, and I do not think that is the case at all.

Boone has a low salary and is great depth in case of injury. We should be happy with that.