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Replacing Delanie Walker... Yes or No?

Replacing Delanie Walker... Yes or No?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Joecool:
We can acquire a true FB who can block better than Walker and still get that FB to produce 200 yards receiving. Walker isn't even a great blocker. Most of his blocks are misdirection blocks that gives him leverage. His greatest asset is understanding the offense, which can easily be filled by Fleener.

If this team had 2 great WR's and Harbaugh's offensive system focused on WR's not TE's, Walker would be a heck of backup to have, but in this offense he's less of a backup and more of a starter and you can't be a starter and go 8 games without making a single reception, that's just nuts.


"Because he was in there to block."


b******t, yeah he did block a lot, but go back and look at the previous games and how many times he went out on a route and got bottled up in coverage by a safety or nickelback, he had a few plays where he broke free and made some nice catches downfield, he also had some drops downfield but a lot of the time, he wasn't able to create separation.


The blocking is nice, is it good enough to make up for the lack of production offensively, I don't think so. This is why guys who are true TE's go much earlier in the draft than an h-back, no matter how talented.

You understand that blocking allows us to BE productive offensively, right? Unless you want Smith sacked every play...

If Byham wasn't injured, we'd see Walker making more catches because he wouldn't be focusing on blocking. The same thing happened with Davis under Martz. Martz kept him in to block, then when his number was called, he dropped the ball...

Does the zone really have that short of a memory span?

Most of his blocks are misdirection blocks that gives him leverage

You do realize these blocks take finesse, footwork, quickness and a whole heap of other talents alot of players do not have, right? You can't just stick someone in there and expect him to take the right angles on these blocks...

I played RB for a couple years, shared the job with a real good RB. We needed an offensive lineman quick enough to pull from the guard or opposite side tackle. Pure linemen (Not Pro) have trouble with the quickness and footwork it takes to cut across the LOS before the RB gets there. I stepped in and took over. The biggest thing I noticed was that because I had stopped focused on carrying and catching the ball, and instead focused on hitting the blocks correctly, even just playing catch, I noticed my hands weren't what they used to be...

But was I any less valuable to the team? No.

In fact, I was more valuable to the team in the way they utilized me because I was able to get the job done. You need utility players around. Especially ones that pull through in the clutch and catch winning touchdowns when the game is on the line.
[ Edited by mkmasn on Apr 19, 2012 at 1:07 PM ]
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Joecool:
We can acquire a true FB who can block better than Walker and still get that FB to produce 200 yards receiving. Walker isn't even a great blocker. Most of his blocks are misdirection blocks that gives him leverage. His greatest asset is understanding the offense, which can easily be filled by Fleener.

If this team had 2 great WR's and Harbaugh's offensive system focused on WR's not TE's, Walker would be a heck of backup to have, but in this offense he's less of a backup and more of a starter and you can't be a starter and go 8 games without making a single reception, that's just nuts.


"Because he was in there to block."


b******t, yeah he did block a lot, but go back and look at the previous games and how many times he went out on a route and got bottled up in coverage by a safety or nickelback, he had a few plays where he broke free and made some nice catches downfield, he also had some drops downfield but a lot of the time, he wasn't able to create separation.


The blocking is nice, is it good enough to make up for the lack of production offensively, I don't think so. This is why guys who are true TE's go much earlier in the draft than an h-back, no matter how talented.

You understand that blocking allows us to BE productive offensively, right? Unless you want Smith sacked every play...

If Byham wasn't injured, we'd see Walker making more catches because he wouldn't be focusing on blocking. The same thing happened with Davis under Martz. Martz kept him in to block, then when his number was called, he dropped the ball...

Does the zone really have that short of a memory span?

Most of his blocks are misdirection blocks that gives him leverage

You do realize these blocks take finesse, footwork, quickness and a whole heap of other talents alot of players do not have, right? You can't just stick someone in there and expect him to take the right angles on these blocks...

They are crackback type blocks which is what WR's mostly do. They don't require a lot of skill more than they require to know who to rub.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Joecool:
We can acquire a true FB who can block better than Walker and still get that FB to produce 200 yards receiving. Walker isn't even a great blocker. Most of his blocks are misdirection blocks that gives him leverage. His greatest asset is understanding the offense, which can easily be filled by Fleener.

If this team had 2 great WR's and Harbaugh's offensive system focused on WR's not TE's, Walker would be a heck of backup to have, but in this offense he's less of a backup and more of a starter and you can't be a starter and go 8 games without making a single reception, that's just nuts.


"Because he was in there to block."


b******t, yeah he did block a lot, but go back and look at the previous games and how many times he went out on a route and got bottled up in coverage by a safety or nickelback, he had a few plays where he broke free and made some nice catches downfield, he also had some drops downfield but a lot of the time, he wasn't able to create separation.


The blocking is nice, is it good enough to make up for the lack of production offensively, I don't think so. This is why guys who are true TE's go much earlier in the draft than an h-back, no matter how talented.

You understand that blocking allows us to BE productive offensively, right? Unless you want Smith sacked every play...

If Byham wasn't injured, we'd see Walker making more catches because he wouldn't be focusing on blocking. The same thing happened with Davis under Martz. Martz kept him in to block, then when his number was called, he dropped the ball...

Does the zone really have that short of a memory span?

Most of his blocks are misdirection blocks that gives him leverage

You do realize these blocks take finesse, footwork, quickness and a whole heap of other talents alot of players do not have, right? You can't just stick someone in there and expect him to take the right angles on these blocks...

They are crackback type blocks which is what WR's mostly do. They don't require a lot of skill more than they require to know who to rub.

WR crackbacks and Wingback or TE crack backs are two completely different things. WR crackbacks only require you to change the defenders course so the runner can slip by. TE or WB crackbacks require you to drive a guy out of the way because you are so close to the play.

And any block in the box requires a great deal of skill... the LB can come at you with a full head of steam if he gets the timing of the snap right...
[ Edited by mkmasn on Apr 19, 2012 at 1:09 PM ]
Originally posted by mkmasn:
WR crackbacks and Wingback or TE crack backs are two completely different things. WR crackbacks only require you to change the defenders course so the runner can slip by. TE or WB crackbacks require you to drive a guy out of the way because you are so close to the play.

And any block in the box requires a great deal of skill... the LB can come at you with a full head of steam if he gets the timing of the snap right...

I'd like to see how many head on blocks Delanie made. Even the ones vs DET, they were all nailing the side shoulder of the DT and some were Walker just making sure he made a wall for the light misdirection.

Delanie is far from a great blocker.
Originally posted by Joecool:
They are crackback type blocks which is what WR's mostly do. They don't require a lot of skill more than they require to know who to rub.

It takes a little more than that. He's going against 300pds lineman. Delanie is like 246...? He's not blocking in the open space so as to slow down the defender to the runner like a WR. He's asked to block and hold his ground long enough to create a hole for a runner to go through in tight spaces. Takes a lot leverage and technique especially going against someone more than 50pds heavier.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Apr 19, 2012 at 1:22 PM ]
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Dont go out of your way to replace him, he's does a fine job as a #2 TE, but if Fleener is our best option at #30 you better take him.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Joecool:
They are crackback type blocks which is what WR's mostly do. They don't require a lot of skill more than they require to know who to rub.

It takes a little more than that. He's going against 300pds lineman. Delanie is like 246...?

Who are usually not moving exactly opposite to him. Most of his blocks are pure leverage schemes or screen type of block schemes that only requires disruption rather than displacement or full front-on stoppage of the defender. He can give 50 pounds easily.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
WR crackbacks and Wingback or TE crack backs are two completely different things. WR crackbacks only require you to change the defenders course so the runner can slip by. TE or WB crackbacks require you to drive a guy out of the way because you are so close to the play.

And any block in the box requires a great deal of skill... the LB can come at you with a full head of steam if he gets the timing of the snap right...

I'd like to see how many head on blocks Delanie made. Even the ones vs DET, they were all nailing the side shoulder of the DT and some were Walker just making sure he made a wall for the light misdirection.

Delanie is far from a great blocker.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/12/16/walker-the-blocker-49ers-te-on-4-game-catchless-streak/... talking about what? blocking.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/3/8/2854582/2011-san-francisco-49ers-grades-delanie-walker again.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/10/30/49ers-delanie-walker-always-in-position-to-help/... talking about what? mismatches.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by Joecool:
They are crackback type blocks which is what WR's mostly do. They don't require a lot of skill more than they require to know who to rub.

It takes a little more than that. He's going against 300pds lineman. Delanie is like 246...?

Who are usually not moving exactly opposite to him. Most of his blocks are pure leverage schemes or screen type of block schemes that only requires disruption rather than displacement or full front-on stoppage of the defender. He can give 50 pounds easily.

He's not blocking in the open space so as to slow down the defender to the runner like a WR. He's asked to block and hold his ground long enough to create a hole for a runner to go through in tight spaces. Takes a lot leverage and technique especially going against someone more than 50pds heavier.
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
WR crackbacks and Wingback or TE crack backs are two completely different things. WR crackbacks only require you to change the defenders course so the runner can slip by. TE or WB crackbacks require you to drive a guy out of the way because you are so close to the play.

And any block in the box requires a great deal of skill... the LB can come at you with a full head of steam if he gets the timing of the snap right...

I'd like to see how many head on blocks Delanie made. Even the ones vs DET, they were all nailing the side shoulder of the DT and some were Walker just making sure he made a wall for the light misdirection.

Delanie is far from a great blocker.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/12/16/walker-the-blocker-49ers-te-on-4-game-catchless-streak/... talking about what? blocking.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/3/8/2854582/2011-san-francisco-49ers-grades-delanie-walker again.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/10/30/49ers-delanie-walker-always-in-position-to-help/... talking about what? mismatches.

What do these have to do with the types of blocks he is required to make. I already said his value to us is knowing the system.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by longtime49erfan:
Originally posted by NickSh49:
So the latest debate in the Zone has been whether or not Delanie Walker should be replaced as the #2 TE.

The Zone is currently fixated on Stanford TE Coby Fleener to take D-Love's place... like Fleener's automatically the second coming of GRONK.

I am personally baffled by the lack of love being thrown Walker's way, but to each their own. What do you guys think?

I think you neglected the option of keeping Delanie Walker and also getting Coby Fleener. Fleener need not replace Walker... yet. Walker is a good player and I hope the team keeps him. However, I would love to see them draft Fleener, too.

Your poll did not have that as an option.

Eventually, Fleener WILL replace Walker if he is drafted, and Walker will go to another team.

I just don't think replacing Delanie is a priority, now or in the forseeable future. If you draft Fleener, you are essentially saying so-long to Walker unless Fleener completely busts.

I think your POV is one way of looking at it, but I don't believe this FO will pick Fleener as a replacement, but rather BPA. If Fleener is there at #30, he very well could be the BPA so draft him. A bonus that he used to be in Harbaugh's system. I just feel that Den, Clev, AND Balti could snag him, he'd be worth it.

As far as Walker, the dude does everything for us. When we win the SuperBowl, do you really think Walker would jet for more money or stay here and accept a fair contract? This team is so good, he would want to stay a la Carlos Rogers.

That's the other POV you seem to be missing.

We are not drafting Fleener to replace Walker. We are drafting Fleener cause he's a bad mama jamma a possession and redzone receiver, probably the BPAReceiver at that at #30.

But I hear ya! Walker may want his big pay day, but I really doubt he will get Davis, Clark, Gonzo, or Gates type mula so why go? Anyway, I still think Fleener at #30 would be BPA.

This year, a 3-TE set with Davis, Walker AND Fleener would be extraordinary and keep Moss and Manningham on the outside. Run or pass, baby, all day!!!!

C'mon Next Thursday!!! Get here already!!!!
With Fleener I am not looking to replace Walker I am looking to improve the receiver corps. Fleener might be a tight end but he can play outside, tight, in the slot, you could even put him in the backfield on short yardage situations he is a load to bring down. This man is a beast and will improve the Niners and thats what we all want is improvement. How do you defend Davis, Walker, Fleener, and any two of the following - Moss, Manningham, Gore, Hunter, on the field at the same time. You dont, Its a nightmare for the defense. Picking Fleener is not a slight on Walker, Walker is a damn good player, Fleener is an addition not a subtraction.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
WR crackbacks and Wingback or TE crack backs are two completely different things. WR crackbacks only require you to change the defenders course so the runner can slip by. TE or WB crackbacks require you to drive a guy out of the way because you are so close to the play.

And any block in the box requires a great deal of skill... the LB can come at you with a full head of steam if he gets the timing of the snap right...

I'd like to see how many head on blocks Delanie made. Even the ones vs DET, they were all nailing the side shoulder of the DT and some were Walker just making sure he made a wall for the light misdirection.

Delanie is far from a great blocker.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/12/16/walker-the-blocker-49ers-te-on-4-game-catchless-streak/... talking about what? blocking.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/3/8/2854582/2011-san-francisco-49ers-grades-delanie-walker again.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/10/30/49ers-delanie-walker-always-in-position-to-help/... talking about what? mismatches.

What do these have to do with the types of blocks he is required to make. I already said his value to us is knowing the system.


Whatever... it's like talking to a wall. Knowing the system and executing are two different things. Obviously the coaches this he executes at the level they want from him, otherwise he would have been cut, Braylon Edwards. ... or placed on IR when he broke his jaw...

edit: not an attack on you... it's just we're not getting anywhere with this lol.
[ Edited by mkmasn on Apr 19, 2012 at 2:22 PM ]
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
WR crackbacks and Wingback or TE crack backs are two completely different things. WR crackbacks only require you to change the defenders course so the runner can slip by. TE or WB crackbacks require you to drive a guy out of the way because you are so close to the play.

And any block in the box requires a great deal of skill... the LB can come at you with a full head of steam if he gets the timing of the snap right...

I'd like to see how many head on blocks Delanie made. Even the ones vs DET, they were all nailing the side shoulder of the DT and some were Walker just making sure he made a wall for the light misdirection.

Delanie is far from a great blocker.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/12/16/walker-the-blocker-49ers-te-on-4-game-catchless-streak/... talking about what? blocking.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/3/8/2854582/2011-san-francisco-49ers-grades-delanie-walker again.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/10/30/49ers-delanie-walker-always-in-position-to-help/... talking about what? mismatches.

What do these have to do with the types of blocks he is required to make. I already said his value to us is knowing the system.


Whatever... it's like talking to a wall. Knowing the system and executing are two different things. Obviously the coaches this he executes at the level they want from him, otherwise he would have been cut, Braylon Edwards. ... or placed on IR when he broke his jaw...

edit: not an attack on you... it's just we're not getting anywhere with this lol.

That's my point, I don't think it is very difficult to find a player who can execute at that level AND catch for 200 yards.What Delanie has produced in the passing game and running game is not very difficult to replace.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by mkmasn:
WR crackbacks and Wingback or TE crack backs are two completely different things. WR crackbacks only require you to change the defenders course so the runner can slip by. TE or WB crackbacks require you to drive a guy out of the way because you are so close to the play.

And any block in the box requires a great deal of skill... the LB can come at you with a full head of steam if he gets the timing of the snap right...

I'd like to see how many head on blocks Delanie made. Even the ones vs DET, they were all nailing the side shoulder of the DT and some were Walker just making sure he made a wall for the light misdirection.

Delanie is far from a great blocker.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/12/16/walker-the-blocker-49ers-te-on-4-game-catchless-streak/... talking about what? blocking.
http://www.ninersnation.com/2012/3/8/2854582/2011-san-francisco-49ers-grades-delanie-walker again.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2011/10/30/49ers-delanie-walker-always-in-position-to-help/... talking about what? mismatches.

What do these have to do with the types of blocks he is required to make. I already said his value to us is knowing the system.


Whatever... it's like talking to a wall. Knowing the system and executing are two different things. Obviously the coaches this he executes at the level they want from him, otherwise he would have been cut, Braylon Edwards. ... or placed on IR when he broke his jaw...

edit: not an attack on you... it's just we're not getting anywhere with this lol.

That's my point, I don't think it is very difficult to find a player who can execute at that level AND catch for 200 yards.What Delanie has produced in the passing game and running game is not very difficult to replace.

And my point is, when someone is asked to focus on something, like block, or in Aldon Smith's case, rush the passer, production in other areas drops. A prime example is Vernon Davis when we played under Mike Martz's scheme. Martz used him as a blocker and when it was time to pass it to him, he would drop the ball.

Next year, Aldon Smith will be asked to be a more complete linebacker, so his production in sacks will most likely drop (I hope not).

When you are talking about a player as athletic as Walker, who can line up as TE, WR, FB, OL, and wherever else you want to put him, why would you replace him just because he gets 200 yds. The Giants game was a prime example of what can happen when the coaches choose to use him as a receiving threat (6 catches, 96 yds).

His contract is not expensive, he doesn't cause issues off the field or in the locker room, he's got the team first mindset, and he's a vet who has seen thick and thin with this team. Why draft Fleener or pickup another guy and get rid of Walker, when you could draft Fleener and keep Walker.

I still don't think we should draft Fleener, though, I'm thinking OL or LB (there's going to be 4 or five guys right at the spot for OL, and we all know Baalke won't hesitate to grab a guy slated to go later for another LB... I think Brooks is going to share time on the other side just like we did with Aldon), but we are in a position to pick whoever is on the board at the time.
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