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Kilgore a little light in the a$$?

Regardless of Kilgore being ready or not, I'd still like to draft Peter Konz if he is there. He'll be back up C or challenge Kilgore for that starting RG position. It would be a win-win situation. But thats only if we dont trade back for an early 2nd and 3rd
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Originally posted by martysofresh:
Regardless of Kilgore being ready or not, I'd still like to draft Peter Konz if he is there. He'll be back up C or challenge Kilgore for that starting RG position. It would be a win-win situation. But thats only if we dont trade back for an early 2nd and 3rd

We will have options I figure either Konz, Hill or Fleener will be available and all three can make this team better.
Originally posted by modninerfan:
We will have options I figure either Konz, Hill or Fleener will be available and all three can make this team better.

i dont think hill helps us now he is more of an investment a guy to take over next year after moss(whom he should learn a lot from)
Interesting to see posted the *supposed* knocks on Kilgore:

1. Too light- barely over 300 lbs
2. "Looks soft"
3. Only 23 reps (combine bench press)

Since OL isn't the flashiest position, I wonder if maybe some of you aren't seeing what OL coaches KNOW TO LOOK FOR. Not that I'm a OLine expert (played high school football and wasn't even a starter), but I know that "looks soft" isn't exactly the thought process of a NFL Scout. I'd take a NASTY ATTITUDE, GREAT FOOTWORK, and LOWER BODY STRENGTH for the Guard position.What does bench reps got to do with it? Anything over 20ish is fine. What do you want from a 5th round pick?

Weight and "looking soft" can be addressed with a whole season and off season with NFL Professional Trainers and Coaching. Look who his team mates are: Iupati and Staley are great, young talent that he can learn from also.

Kilgore has an ATTITUDE, and to me, Oline play is about having an attitude. Look at Chilo, who had the weight you want, the size you want and the bench press reps you want. He was a BUST, so clearly there is more to Oline play then those.

*We traded UP to get him
*He will have this whole off season of work
*He has a year in the system, with the staff and team
*He had great footwork in college and showed flexibility
*He has a NASTY attitude and will play to the whistle
*He has a better pass protection skill set then Snyder and Rachel

Nasty Attitude + Great Footwork > "looks soft" + "too light"

That all being said, I do NOT think he is a Pro Bowler. I think he can pick up where Snyder left off but with a more balanced skill set (not just a road grader). I agree he is more like a Harvey Dahl, Chris Dalman type of player. He isn't going to dominate Top level DTs, but I don't see Kilgore as giving up any sacks to them either. He won't move the pile, but he will hold his own.
[ Edited by GoldandGarnet on Apr 7, 2012 at 7:14 AM ]
Originally posted by GoldandGarnet:
Interesting to see posted the *supposed* knocks on Kilgore:

1. Too light- barely over 300 lbs
2. "Looks soft"
3. Only 23 reps (combine bench press)

Since OL isn't the flashiest position, I wonder if maybe some of you aren't seeing what OL coaches KNOW TO LOOK FOR. Not that I'm a OLine expert (played high school football and wasn't even a starter), but I know that "looks soft" isn't exactly the thought process of a NFL Scout. I'd take a NASTY ATTITUDE, GREAT FOOTWORK, and LOWER BODY STRENGTH for the Guard position.What does bench reps got to do with it? Anything over 20ish is fine. What do you want from a 5th round pick?

Weight and "looking soft" can be addressed with a whole season and off season with NFL Professional Trainers and Coaching. Look who his team mates are: Iupati and Staley are great, young talent that he can learn from also.

Kilgore has an ATTITUDE, and to me, Oline play is about having an attitude. Look at Chilo, who had the weight you want, the size you want and the bench press reps you want. He was a BUST, so clearly there is more to Oline play then those.

*We traded UP to get him
*He will have this whole off season of work
*He has a year in the system, with the staff and team
*He had great footwork in college and showed flexibility
*He has a NASTY attitude and will play to the whistle
*He has a better pass protection skill set then Snyder and Rachel

Nasty Attitude + Great Footwork > "looks soft" + "too light"

That all being said, I do NOT think he is a Pro Bowler. I think he can pick up where Snyder left off but with a more balanced skill set (not just a road grader). I agree he is more like a Harvey Dahl, Chris Dalman type of player. He isn't going to dominate Top level DTs, but I don't see Kilgore as giving up any sacks to them either. He won't move the pile, but he will hold his own.

I played some football in college ( 1-AA ) so I do understand the top qualities of O-lineman. Is strength and size necessary? No, but if you do not have size and strength then your technique needs to be flawless. Its like a starting pitcher in the Majors. Can you pitch with a 90mph fastball instead of 96? Sure you can, but then your margin for error is less. Making a mistake at 96 could mean a foul ball, making a mistake at 90 is a HR. Same thing with Olinemen. You are going against D-linemen who are 300+ and extremely strong men. If you can't match them with size and strength, then you use technique, leverage, positioning, communication with your teammates for help, footwork, quickness to beat them to a spot.. all these are much more important. To have all those AND the physical tools though is the difference between the Adam Snyders of the world and a Pro Bowler. Thats why people are high on DeCastro ( 34 reps ), Zeitler ( 32 reps ), Osemele ( 32 reps ), Glenn ( 31 reps ) . They are all strong men who can be taught proper technique. You can have a nasty attitude and still be put on your ass if you arent getting your hips around and sealing the edges or keeping your head up / hips down and driving your legs . It is true that size and strength guys like Chilo can easily fail if their tecnique is crap. I also agree 100% with you that technique is the MOST important thing for an olinemen, size and stength is secondary. To have both though is even better!

When I took a look at Kilgore 13 months ago at the combine ( link in my post ), he looks really soft. I work out with guys at the gym who play college ball and they look much more 'solid'. Thats why Im glad I read about him changing his body composition, it is what it is, just stating the facts. Im sure someone in the organization said the same, players and coaches

( as a side note, I think bench is a little overrated in football....squat, snatch, clean & jerks and deadlifts are better measuring sticks for football ).

Hopefully he comes in ready to rock this year and we draft one of those other monsters like Zeitler, Osemele or Glenn to add competition.
Reports are that Kilgore has worked on his core strength during the off season and is much stronger than last year. He moves well and is a fierce competitor.

These factors may be what the coaches are looking for in his development and he has met his/their goals.

Watching our line last year the problems were mental, leaving huge holes in the middle of the line for instance. Quickness can help close these holes but it is also necessary to know what your fellow linemen are likely to do in order to cover for them should they find it necessary to slide. At times, it appeared that Goodwin decided to help Iupati on the same plays that Snyder helped Davis, thus leaving a huge hole in the middle. They can't both help like this...and I see this as a mental error. After seeing the blitz coming, neither had the quickness to react and close off the hole.

Kilgore is much quicker than either so he may be better at making up for mistakes. His added strength is more important than weight. 300 pounds is fine for a RG if he is athletic and the DLmen need to watch their sides for the wham block. This line is not going to over power the opponents unless they put Iupati next to Davis. The others are not power drivers.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Reports are that Kilgore has worked on his core strength during the off season and is much stronger than last year. He moves well and is a fierce competitor.

These factors may be what the coaches are looking for in his development and he has met his/their goals.

Watching our line last year the problems were mental, leaving huge holes in the middle of the line for instance. Quickness can help close these holes but it is also necessary to know what your fellow linemen are likely to do in order to cover for them should they find it necessary to slide. At times, it appeared that Goodwin decided to help Iupati on the same plays that Snyder helped Davis, thus leaving a huge hole in the middle. They can't both help like this...and I see this as a mental error. After seeing the blitz coming, neither had the quickness to react and close off the hole.

Kilgore is much quicker than either so he may be better at making up for mistakes. His added strength is more important than weight. 300 pounds is fine for a RG if he is athletic and the DLmen need to watch their sides for the wham block. This line is not going to over power the opponents unless they put Iupati next to Davis. The others are not power drivers.

Pass blocking sounded like his strength coming out of College, hopefully he solidifies the line from that standpoint. Snyder did a good job last year, but he was always getting pushed into the backfield. Oline is funny because it really is a case of being as strong as your weakest link. Like you pointed out, one blown assignment, or trying to cover for other players' weaknesses, makes the the entire thing crumble. We saw those communication breakdowns way too often in 2011. I think we can all agree that there is a lot of room for improvement across the board. Hopefully Iupati and Davis both take another step forward this year, while Goodwin and Staley provide more consistency than they did last year. There were times when Staley was just getting man handled. Iupati getting better should make his job easier. If we can turn RG into a strength from a weakness, this entire unit will benefit.
i think kilgore can be a absolute stud at RG. I hope this kid gets a shot at the position.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by modninerfan:
We will have options I figure either Konz, Hill or Fleener will be available and all three can make this team better.

i dont think hill helps us now he is more of an investment a guy to take over next year after moss(whom he should learn a lot from)


Question: What makes Stephen Hill so much better than Brian Quick in the 2nd or 3rd round? or Tommy Streeter in the 5th- 6th round? I truly think any rookie can learn from Moss whether its Hill in the 1st round or an undrafted Elvis Akpla. Hill has a 1st round grade, but I still feel like he's a 3rd round talent, I hate using the word "overrated" because I dont think he's a bad reciever, but i truly feel that he will end up being considered a bust his rookie year for the simple fact that that everyone has such high expectations of him. The way I see it regarding to the niners is:
Konz= Safe and smart pick
Fleener= Instant offensive weapon pick
Hill= Gambler's pick
Originally posted by martysofresh:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by modninerfan:
We will have options I figure either Konz, Hill or Fleener will be available and all three can make this team better.

i dont think hill helps us now he is more of an investment a guy to take over next year after moss(whom he should learn a lot from)


Question: What makes Stephen Hill so much better than Brian Quick in the 2nd or 3rd round? or Tommy Streeter in the 5th- 6th round? I truly think any rookie can learn from Moss whether its Hill in the 1st round or an undrafted Elvis Akpla. Hill has a 1st round grade, but I still feel like he's a 3rd round talent, I hate using the word "overrated" because I dont think he's a bad reciever, but i truly feel that he will end up being considered a bust his rookie year for the simple fact that that everyone has such high expectations of him. The way I see it regarding to the niners is:
Konz= Safe and smart pick
Fleener= Instant offensive weapon pick
Hill= Gambler's pick

i can't wait to see what we do with our 1st round pick.... look at last year when we picked "all done" smith no one was saying YESSSS or NOOOOO but rather WHO THE F*** IS THAT? and it was a huge reach for where we were picking so i'd like to see what we have in store this year
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Pass blocking sounded like his strength coming out of College, hopefully he solidifies the line from that standpoint. Snyder did a good job last year, but he was always getting pushed into the backfield. Oline is funny because it really is a case of being as strong as your weakest link. Like you pointed out, one blown assignment, or trying to cover for other players' weaknesses, makes the the entire thing crumble. We saw those communication breakdowns way too often in 2011. I think we can all agree that there is a lot of room for improvement across the board. Hopefully Iupati and Davis both take another step forward this year, while Goodwin and Staley provide more consistency than they did last year. There were times when Staley was just getting man handled. Iupati getting better should make his job easier. If we can turn RG into a strength from a weakness, this entire unit will benefit.


Agree about his pass blocking being a strength...in college, but draft write-ups mentioned his run blocking ability. Not sure how he would do as an every day RG. I also hope he is the answer for many reasons, including a future super bowl for the 9ers. If Kilgore is the answer at RG then they only need a backup, future C...and then this line will be a very, very good line for years to come. Staley is the old man of the group and is still quite young for a starting lineman.

Edit: played center for three years in high school earning all-state honors. Played RG in college and then switched to OT. His draft write-up mentioned short arms but uncommon tenacity.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Apr 8, 2012 at 8:45 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Agree about his pass blocking being a strength...in college, but draft write-ups mentioned his run blocking ability. Not sure how he would do as an every day RG. I also hope he is the answer for many reasons, including a future super bowl for the 9ers. If Kilgore is the answer at RG then they only need a backup, future C...and then this line will be a very, very good line for years to come. Staley is the old man of the group and is still quite young for a starting lineman.

Edit: played center for three years in high school earning all-state honors. Played RG in college and then switched to OT. His draft write-up mentioned short arms but uncommon tenacity.

Dont forget that we still have former Stanford starting C Chase Beeler who was on our practice squad in 2011. In 2010, he was named AP first-team All-American, first-team All-Pac-10 and second-team All-American by the Walter Camp Football Foundation. I read that he turned down multiple offers from other teams and that he's been working out at the facility all offseason. He's 6'3" and 295, pretty strong too with 33 reps at the combine. With a full year working with our coaches, I could see him moving up the depth chart this year and becoming the backup C in 2012. Then when Goodwin's done, he could be our starter. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how this all unfolds, but I wouldnt mind taking a quick peak into the future to see what the 9ers roster looks like in 2015.
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Dont forget that we still have former Stanford starting C Chase Beeler who was on our practice squad in 2011. In 2010, he was named AP first-team All-American, first-team All-Pac-10 and second-team All-American by the Walter Camp Football Foundation. I read that he turned down multiple offers from other teams and that he's been working out at the facility all offseason. He's 6'3" and 295, pretty strong too with 33 reps at the combine. With a full year working with our coaches, I could see him moving up the depth chart this year and becoming the backup C in 2012. Then when Goodwin's done, he could be our starter. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how this all unfolds, but I wouldnt mind taking a quick peak into the future to see what the 9ers roster looks like in 2015.


That would be too much to hope for! If both Beeler and Kilgore are keepers and eventual starters the team is in better shape than I had thought possible. It would also allow the team to draft for BPA which usually works better.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
That would be too much to hope for! If both Beeler and Kilgore are keepers and eventual starters the team is in better shape than I had thought possible. It would also allow the team to draft for BPA which usually works better.

Agree, but you never know till you get them on the field in a game situation. Like playing basketball in the park some are great playing horse or a half court pick up game, but put them in when its moneyball time and some just can't handle.
Little in the middle but he got much back